DUMBEST VIDEO GAME TWISTS?{SPOILERS}

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author=LockeZ
And fuck me, your accurate description of the plot is actually more confusing than my rambling incoherent one


You think I don't know that? >.<
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
6309
Mgs and Mgs 3 are my favourites.
Don't question Vamp by the way. The Fantasy element has always been there.
Vulcan Raven had that whole raven sight. Psycho Mantis...need not explain.
In MG and MG2, I remember there were themed bosses, but the whole format was different. It still managed to invest in the fantasy of Mechs and better than oil fuel source.
Oh yeah, Frank Jaegar... Grey Fox died so many times and came back. But no one seems to care about that! (even more than that according to Portable Ops!)
That reminds me, I think Grey Fox was Raider's father, wasn't he? Or was it Solidus, I forget.
It was Solidus and he wasn't his real father. It was like he adopted him. Gray Fox adopted Naomi after killing her parents.

Vamp was NEVER supernatural. He was a kid when a bombing in a church killed his family; he was crushed by the cross, but managed to survive by drinking the blood from his relatives, therefore establishing his appetite for the liquid. In MGS4 it is revealed that he has nanomachines that allow him to heal rapidly, ala Wolverine. However, it is never explained why he could swim in a composite made of almost 100% O2, where anyone else would drown, or why he could stun you by stabbing your shadow.
benos
My mind is full of fuck.
624
Your father is the ultimate baddie in FFX.
Oh, Jesus, yeah. Ah-hahahaha, how could I have forgotten MGS2?
MGS2, ilu, but maaan your last section was too weird, even for a Metal Gear game.

OOH, hey, Professor Layton games usually have a point in the plot where they suddenly get super "bwuh?"
Like that one time in the Diabolical Box
when all of a sudden IT WAS A HALLUCINATION THE ENTIRE TIIIIIIME~

And that other time in the Unwound Future when
IT WAS A GIANT MOVIE SET UNDER LONDON AND EVERYONE WAS ACTORS THE ENTIRE TIIIIIIME~

Professor Layton, your games are fun, but maaaaan your plots are a clusterfuck. OTL
author=emmy
MGS2, ilu, but maaan your last section was too weird, even for a Metal Gear game.


not really, i just saw it as a stark depiction of the player's mindset. like MGS1 is pretty ridiculous on its own, and the fact that people just embrace it over MGS2's lack of AMERICAN WAR HERO kind of says something. Hideo Kojima's batshit insane but I can't help but think there's a self awareness thing going on. MGS3 just confirms that people want more TRU PATRIOT 4 EVA droning.
author=Darken
and the fact that people just embrace it over MGS2's lack of AMERICAN WAR HERO kind of says something.


Funny you say that, because I don't think Snake is a hero at all. Just a guy that's good at killing. People "hated" MGS2 because they wanted to play the badass Snake in next generation graphics and gameplay, but they got Raiden, a whiny teenager with stupid hairdo.
Snake is a hero in the classical sense that he is doing war activities for the sake of nukes being bad. He is usually preventing a horrible weapon from being developed/used regardless of his personal intentions. So yeah anti hero or whatever. The interesting thing about Raiden though is that he was more like the mirror of the player. He was trained by VR simulations and had a shallow/insecure personality, huge contrast to "ME AND A NINJA TRAGIC FOUGHT IN THE MIDDLE OF A MINEFIELD."

I'm pretty sure the pretty boy design was due to wanting to appeal to teen girls at first but that just makes it even harder for male audiences to admit relation to Raiden.
I actually really liked Raiden -- he defs had this awesome rookieness going on, and it was really endearing.
Also, yeah, it was... it was cool for the same reasons Darken said. I mean, I didn't really feel like he was a mirror to me, but it was interesting!

Mostly I felt the plot got really "wat" because all the plot twists happened at once -- it was too much to process. I mean, maaaan space out your big reveals and let me figure some of it out on my own, Kojima. Don't just smack me around with plot bricks from no where. ;__;
author=Darken
The interesting thing about Raiden though is that he was more like the mirror of the player. He was trained by VR simulations and had a shallow/insecure personality,


^This

author=emmych
Mostly I felt the plot got really "wat" because all the plot twists happened at once -- it was too much to process.


^And this.

It is really interesting to see that Kojima is not playing with Raiden, it's playing with YOU. You went through VR, you WANTED to be Solid Snake, for fucks sake, the game tells YOU to turn off the console, you've been playing for too long. I think that's interesting, it's an experiment with the player.

But at the same time, the pacing of the game dumps you with a lot of reveals in a few minutes. Hard to digest.

So... what do we conclude? Stupid Plot twists in MGS2... or not? I vote yes.
K-hos
whoa You guys are hi-chaining without me? That's just not right. :<
721
Surprised no one has mentioned Star Ocean 3 yet.

Though I don't actually get why everyone hates it so much, didn't seem like that big of a deal to me.
Dudesoft
always a dudesoft, never a soft dude.
6309
I also liked that as Raiden we got to see Solid Snake be a bad ass. It was a cool experience seeing him in a box sneaking around, while you go about your business.
Decky
I'm a dog pirate
19645
5. Xenosaga - Mary Magdalene shenanigans. Great concept, poor development of the idea. Chalk it up to the series getting cut short.
4. FF8 Orphanage/GF Twist - I adore this game, but I feel in hindsight that this twist was kind of cheesy and poorly foreshadowed.
3. FF13-2 "The Timeline is all screwed up! Valhalla becomes all!" - NOTHING to do with FF13. Ugh.
2. FF7 - Cloud in general. Such a mass of "lame" for me.
1. Star Ocean 3 - "The Entire World is a Computer Simulation!" - great idea, bad execution. Very bad execution. Too bad - it's a great game.

Honorable Mention: Necron. "Surprise random dude!"

Now, on the other hand, what's an awesome end-game bad guy twist done right? Yu Yevon in FFX. He's foreshadowed a bit earlier in the game, and the idea just fits. Good backstory too.
author=Solid Snake
I'm no hero. Never was, never will be.

The thing is that the MGS series were never only about an "Action Hero" or a "Spy Movie" kind of deal. That just the superficial par of it. A candy-coat for entertainment value and for our convenience's sake. The MGS games features a meta-narrative that delves upon deep, complex subject that don't often mix well with video-games. One of the main themes MGS1 dealt with was genes, and how much they make who we really are. MGS2 was the same thing but with memes (Ideas) instead...

Long story short. You may not like the plot twists in MGS2, (they're indeed bizarre and convoluted) but you have to admit they're far from being "dumb". If you look deep into it, you'll realize they're in fact pretty clever... And if you're still unconvinced, then you're proving one of the points of the AIs. You (Raiden, the Snake wannabe) can't see things objectively, and instead let your feelings cloud your judgement in order to protect yourself from a bigger truth. But don't worry, that's just called being human. =P

author=K-hos
Surprised no one has mentioned Star Ocean 3 yet.

Heh; For a time, my brain also erased all mentions of SO3 it stumbled upon. I'm confident this is your case too, despite what you say. xP
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
Arguably Infinite Space, where

A war against a dominant empire is turned into some sort of uprising against the newly revealed higher powers of the game's universe (that are about to end said universe) in the blink of an eye, which meant that most of the game until that point had been utterly pointless. And although it's been a while since I played it, I'm pretty sure the game implied that regardless of the ending, the 'Overlords' or whatever will still win in the end and...destroy everything. It's a decent subversion from the usual style, but for a game this 'epic' it was a bit of a kick in the teeth.

... It was a giant tree. Suikoden IV. Yeah. Thankyou and goodnight!
author=Deckiller
2. FF7 - Cloud in general. Such a mass of "lame" for me.

Huh. "The main character isn't the war hero but Random Mook #34" is one of my favorite twists, personally.

MGS2 is a massive joke with the player at the butt end. I liked it (if I remember well, there's a part where someone talks about VR simulations being bad because 'they make people think war is a game' while images of MGS1 are on the screen), but I see how a lot of people don't like this kind of meta-post-whatever.

My vote is for FFVIII orphanage scene, mostly because of Irvine. "Oh hey we all grew up togheter. I didn't think it was worth mentioning in the past weeks."
Damn this topic, opening up old wounds. I thought I had gotten over FF8 and MGS2. Anyway, I really despised most of the plot points from the last 5% of Final Fantasy 9. Its a shame because I really liked the game up until then.
author=Dudesoft
I also liked that as Raiden we got to see Solid Snake be a bad ass. It was a cool experience seeing him in a box sneaking around, while you go about your business.


Yep.

author=Darken
The interesting thing about Raiden though is that he was more like the mirror of the player. He was trained by VR simulations and had a shallow/insecure personality,


I don't want to play a underachieving college lax bro, who spends his free time making rm games.

I want to play a badass spy. I didn't get to do that for most of MGS2, hence lame. It's got nothing to do with american, or hero, or anything other than badassery.

Whatever word you want to use, you wanted to BE Snake due to a basic male fantasy appeal. MGS2's intent was to make you feel uncomfortable about that when in control of Raiden. The game is actually intended for you but in a completely different way. I don't really care if you hated MGS2 or not but it's at least self aware about what it's doing. It didn't put you into an unlikeable role for no good reason.

I'm pretty bad at getting this point across when I think about it...