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DOES NEGATIVE FEEDBACK DETER YOU?
Posts
Dark Gaia
3474
Dark Gaia
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CloseHi everyone.
I was recently doing a little bit of experimental writing for a horror writing wiki called SCP Foundation to get me into the mood of writing as I resume the second year of my BA in creative writing, and I quite simply had the story I posted (which was an attempt at an adaptation of one of my games' stories) eviscerated savagely.
This didn't really affect me too much (I've learned to cope with negative criticism) but it got me to thinking: I've seen far too many times in the RPG Maker community where people absolutely freak out at the sign of any negative feedback, even to the point of cancelling their projects. I'm guilty of it in the past, and I'll admit that not everyone can handle negative feedback gracefully.
As someone who studies creative writing, and as a published author who has (literally) papered walls with rejection letters in my quest to sell my works to literary journals and publishing houses, I understand that negative feedback can be extremely useful for improving yourself and the work you create. When developing Legionwood, I began to take on board every word of criticism I received in good spirits, and thanks to this, I was able to implement changes to the game that have made it quite successful today (to the point of being on Wikipedia and in magazines, anyway - I don't particularly consider it to be the best RM* game out there), but that's just me, and I was very curious to pose this question:
How do you feel is the right way to express negative feedback? What do you feel is the right way to respond to it? And has negative feedback ever deterred you from pressing on with your project?
I was recently doing a little bit of experimental writing for a horror writing wiki called SCP Foundation to get me into the mood of writing as I resume the second year of my BA in creative writing, and I quite simply had the story I posted (which was an attempt at an adaptation of one of my games' stories) eviscerated savagely.
This didn't really affect me too much (I've learned to cope with negative criticism) but it got me to thinking: I've seen far too many times in the RPG Maker community where people absolutely freak out at the sign of any negative feedback, even to the point of cancelling their projects. I'm guilty of it in the past, and I'll admit that not everyone can handle negative feedback gracefully.
As someone who studies creative writing, and as a published author who has (literally) papered walls with rejection letters in my quest to sell my works to literary journals and publishing houses, I understand that negative feedback can be extremely useful for improving yourself and the work you create. When developing Legionwood, I began to take on board every word of criticism I received in good spirits, and thanks to this, I was able to implement changes to the game that have made it quite successful today (to the point of being on Wikipedia and in magazines, anyway - I don't particularly consider it to be the best RM* game out there), but that's just me, and I was very curious to pose this question:
How do you feel is the right way to express negative feedback? What do you feel is the right way to respond to it? And has negative feedback ever deterred you from pressing on with your project?
I actually made a post about this a while back, and I think there have been other threads about this topic too, but it basically boils down to how the reviewer chooses to word their criticism. Yes, it matters, and YES, it deters the creator if you choose the wrong way to express your criticism. To sum up the following, don't be a dick.
Constructive-constructing or tending to construct; helping to improve; promoting further development or advancement (opposed to destructive)
Let's say two people both decided to review a game they didn't like, but take different approaches in their reviews.
One person wrote out a long sensible review that pointed out all of their likes and dislikes of the game, and addressed things they would like to see changed. The tone of this first review is calm, collected, and in no way insults the creator or their work--even if there was something the writer thought deserved insulting. This is what's considered "constructive" criticism, and this kind of review gives the creator a ton of useful feedback to work from. From an artist's standpoint, this is the ideal type of criticism to receive, but it's not necessarily going to generate buzz or give the writer of the review any recognition.
The second person decides they're going to take a different approach with their review and openly insults things they didn't like about the game in a harsh, but witty manner. While this gives the writer some kind of kick, it doesn't necessarily provide constructive feedback to the game creator, and instead ends up insulting them. The textbook response to this is that the creator lashes out to defend their artistic position in some way, which is exactly what the writer is looking for--buzz. This is essentially the same thing as Roger Ebert giving a movie a one-star review specifically in an entertaining fashion, or writing an article about how games shouldn't be considered 'art.' Relating back to my definition, this is considered "destructive" criticism. It doesn't necessarily give the creator good feedback, but generates a whole lot of buzz in order to cater to the writer.
Your review is either going to fall into one of these two categories, which will either evoke a positive response from the game creator, or a childish one. Ultimately it's up to what the review writer wants people to hear, not what the creator wants to hear.
RPGCreator
10
Never critizise too hard on anyone. Like "That part of the game sucked totally, you idiot". More of the "I didn´t like the game actually. Cou could improve this and that". Show that you actually played the game through and have good points about what you are critizing about. That´s a "negative" feedback I would listen to (of course) and the reply to the latter should be an honest one to show that you actually listened to it. "Thank you. I will try to improve this in an update or in the next game".
I almost never post my projects, so I never get any feedback whatsoever, but on some ideas I´ve had that were terrible to some, it mostly ends with that I don´t use that particular idea for the game. I´m mostly cancellin my projects because I lose interest and find a new idea. Stupid, I know.
I almost never post my projects, so I never get any feedback whatsoever, but on some ideas I´ve had that were terrible to some, it mostly ends with that I don´t use that particular idea for the game. I´m mostly cancellin my projects because I lose interest and find a new idea. Stupid, I know.
Nopes.I WANT NEGATIVE FEEDBACK!>.<
cuz nobody gives me feedback cuz basically what they do is,they download games and steal their resources but never play the game!
cuz nobody gives me feedback cuz basically what they do is,they download games and steal their resources but never play the game!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
why do we get this thread every three weeks
seriously
I can't be arsed to argue any more about this I'm still exhausted from the last six 20-page threads about it
seriously
I can't be arsed to argue any more about this I'm still exhausted from the last six 20-page threads about it
I think good feedback is:
Reporting to the gamedev your personal perceptions and experiences about the game "I think that battle was too hard", or "I got lost trying to find an item". Which is not the same as saying "that song is overused", cause it's not a statement about your experience as a player. Also, good feedback is pointing to the gamedev what should be changed and how, and doing so ACKNOWLEDGING the guy's limitations.
Bad feedback would be, then, expecting from the game more than it can offer, and pointing out flaws that don't actually bother you (thin line here, I know, but important).
Bad feedback doesn't deter me, because I tend to ignore it. I just tend to think that I was right in the first place, but the player "didn't get it". I know, bad habit, but... well, that's me.
Reporting to the gamedev your personal perceptions and experiences about the game "I think that battle was too hard", or "I got lost trying to find an item". Which is not the same as saying "that song is overused", cause it's not a statement about your experience as a player. Also, good feedback is pointing to the gamedev what should be changed and how, and doing so ACKNOWLEDGING the guy's limitations.
Bad feedback would be, then, expecting from the game more than it can offer, and pointing out flaws that don't actually bother you (thin line here, I know, but important).
Bad feedback doesn't deter me, because I tend to ignore it. I just tend to think that I was right in the first place, but the player "didn't get it". I know, bad habit, but... well, that's me.
author=calunioBest attitude! Half joking, I suppose it also tends to be mine.
I just tend to think that I was right in the first place, but the player "didn't get it". I know, bad habit, but... well, that's me.
Dyhalto
7536
You're going to get negative feedback no matter what you do. Better learn to deal with it ASAP.
It's not just the creative arts that receive it. Occasionally the boss will say you screwed up at work, or your client will say he isn't satisfied with your service. Even the most venomous rants should be taken in stride. Learn from your mistakes and improve on what needs improving.
Alternatively, you could put yourself in a position where you don't get any feedback because you don't put yourself out there. That would mostly involve welfare cheques and no social life though.
It's not just the creative arts that receive it. Occasionally the boss will say you screwed up at work, or your client will say he isn't satisfied with your service. Even the most venomous rants should be taken in stride. Learn from your mistakes and improve on what needs improving.
Alternatively, you could put yourself in a position where you don't get any feedback because you don't put yourself out there. That would mostly involve welfare cheques and no social life though.
Mockingbird
21
I see negative feedback as an important part of pretty much anything you do. When it comes to creative things, constructive criticism is often the best way to improve whatever you're doing. Even if you don't agree sometimes, it's still a good idea to try and see WHY somebody thinks something's not good- when you've been working on something for weeks you start to get attached to it, not wanting anyone to say anything bad about it.
However, negative feedback can be a bad thing when someone just says 'it's rubbish'. People like this who don't really explain their reasoning, should probably be ignored- it's hard to improve if you don't know what's wrong.
However, negative feedback can be a bad thing when someone just says 'it's rubbish'. People like this who don't really explain their reasoning, should probably be ignored- it's hard to improve if you don't know what's wrong.
Crystalgate
694
I will not discuss what's the best way to give criticism, that topic has been discussed way to much already. So, I'll concentrate on how criticism affects me.
Negative criticism towards me tend not to affect me that greatly. Usually I hear things I already knew or suspected. However, I have noticed that sometimes feedback that isn't directed to myself affects me greatly in a negative way.
Back when let's trys was really popular and there was about four threads going on simultaneously, I noticed that about half of the let's tryers showed an amazing incompetence in, well, being good at the games. For example, one let's tryer just mashed attack and then complained that battles are to hard (or was it that they are to long?). Pretty much any project I attempt will require you to have a good understanding of what's useful and what's not in a combat situation, so seeing people not even having a basic understanding thereof was rather discouraging.
Negative criticism towards me tend not to affect me that greatly. Usually I hear things I already knew or suspected. However, I have noticed that sometimes feedback that isn't directed to myself affects me greatly in a negative way.
Back when let's trys was really popular and there was about four threads going on simultaneously, I noticed that about half of the let's tryers showed an amazing incompetence in, well, being good at the games. For example, one let's tryer just mashed attack and then complained that battles are to hard (or was it that they are to long?). Pretty much any project I attempt will require you to have a good understanding of what's useful and what's not in a combat situation, so seeing people not even having a basic understanding thereof was rather discouraging.
Doj
66
Depends; I LOVE negative feedback if it succeeds in telling me something that I should change in a game, but criticism just for the sake of being a jerk is unneeded.
ChuJooRi
1035
The first game I ever made was a small flash game that got posted on AddictingGames.com. Let's just say it got viewed by a lot of people, and I got a lot of negative feedback there. Mostly short messages like "WORST GAME EVER", "SUCKS". I got a little pissed at the time, but when I look back I kind of agree with some of those people!
These days though, I've released enough games that I've gotten used to negative feedback, and with my games getting "better" (sometimes) I've gotten less as well.
It didn't really deter me though. That first time I got negative feedback I just got pissed and wanted to quickly release another game to show them I could do better.
These days though, I've released enough games that I've gotten used to negative feedback, and with my games getting "better" (sometimes) I've gotten less as well.
It didn't really deter me though. That first time I got negative feedback I just got pissed and wanted to quickly release another game to show them I could do better.
I don't take criticism well. I also internalize a lot of it. And I always tend to attack/rationalize/explain away/justify the points the critic makes. Eventually I usually back down and consider their criticisms.
The only time negative feedback really affects me is when I'm being double standard'd. Pisses me off a lot, but I still keep on working. :x
author=Doj
Depends; I LOVE negative feedback if it succeeds in telling me something that I should change in a game
No matter how many people say this, I'll never believe the sentence "I love negative feedback", regardless of what comes after.
Why the heck must someone always make another tl;dr thread even if the past topics have been jabbing about the same subject for months.
UPRC
5516
How I respond depends on the attitude of the person giving the feedback.
If they're nice about it and are giving pretty decent points (Part A could be done better, Part B was unnecessary, etc.) then I'll listen to everything they have to say. Whether or not I follow up on their feedback depends entirely on whether or not I feel it needs to be addressed.
If they are being nice (or "neutral") but are listing off what feels like a list of nitpicks, then I'm probably unlikely to respond to what they're saying at all because, when someone seems to be picking out way too many things that they don't like, it starts to feel like they're just not a member of the demographic I target with my games, so I tend to overlook their complaints.
As for people who are just flat out rude? If their complaints are valid, I'll usually take in what they say but not actually acknowledge them in a response. If their complaints aren't backed up (this sucks, that sucks) then I just ignore it completely... Unless it becomes a trend and several peopel do it. In that case, I get severely demotivated because I feel like something I did ended up not appealing to the majority.
If they're nice about it and are giving pretty decent points (Part A could be done better, Part B was unnecessary, etc.) then I'll listen to everything they have to say. Whether or not I follow up on their feedback depends entirely on whether or not I feel it needs to be addressed.
If they are being nice (or "neutral") but are listing off what feels like a list of nitpicks, then I'm probably unlikely to respond to what they're saying at all because, when someone seems to be picking out way too many things that they don't like, it starts to feel like they're just not a member of the demographic I target with my games, so I tend to overlook their complaints.
As for people who are just flat out rude? If their complaints are valid, I'll usually take in what they say but not actually acknowledge them in a response. If their complaints aren't backed up (this sucks, that sucks) then I just ignore it completely... Unless it becomes a trend and several peopel do it. In that case, I get severely demotivated because I feel like something I did ended up not appealing to the majority.
Depends on the project.
I've been very open to negative feedback with my latest, but when it comes to the Eden Legacy games my attitude was always kinda "it is what it is, if you don't like it don't play it".
It's nice to have projects that are entirely your own vision and not affected by player input, but it's also nice to have the opposite as well. Either way, it's always important to be respectful of criticism, not lash out at your critics. Even if their sole mission is to dissuade people from ever touching the game, I think frequent RMN users are intelligent enough to recognize the difference between construct criticism and blatant hate spamming reviews. There aren't really all that many of those crap ones anyway.
I've been very open to negative feedback with my latest, but when it comes to the Eden Legacy games my attitude was always kinda "it is what it is, if you don't like it don't play it".
It's nice to have projects that are entirely your own vision and not affected by player input, but it's also nice to have the opposite as well. Either way, it's always important to be respectful of criticism, not lash out at your critics. Even if their sole mission is to dissuade people from ever touching the game, I think frequent RMN users are intelligent enough to recognize the difference between construct criticism and blatant hate spamming reviews. There aren't really all that many of those crap ones anyway.
