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EXP! [2K3]
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Xenomic
1752
Xenomic
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CloseI'm pretty sure I asked this before sometime here...I think? Anywho, been trying to figure out a good EXP curve using the stupid 2k3 EXP thing. Any good suggestions on what would be the most efficient and balanced way of using it? The way my game is currently set up, it's really hard to set up a good EXP to Area ratio (harder areas giving better EXP obviously) (1 - 613 - 0 is what I'm using), and I'm not sure WHAT would be the best way to handle this. Yes, I tried a custom EXP system, but that isn't going to work from the way I'm looking at it, as it would require a CMS (which I'm NOT going to even try to do) to even display the correct EXP values and whatnot if I use something NOT from the default EXP system...
So yeah, can anyone help out a fella with this? It'll force a restart on everyone's part that's playing my game sadly I know, but if it helps with balancing the stupid thing...
So yeah, can anyone help out a fella with this? It'll force a restart on everyone's part that's playing my game sadly I know, but if it helps with balancing the stupid thing...
Essenceblade
19
Conclusion: RPG Maker 2003's EXP system is complete and utter junk. There is no true way to balance it out at all. Even so, I too, use the default exp system, I "may" be transferring depending on my demo feedback when I release it. Do you have the Goliath / David patch installed on your RPG Maker 2003 program? If so you can configure the EXP values and even go into the minus.
That way, you can add a TINY LITTLE MINISCULE butnotdefeattheproblemalltogether Chip to the solution.
Going into the minus has done wonders for me, as I have no default base ZERO. Rather -99999 or whatever.
So in a summary; RPG Maker 2003's EXP system is stupid, but there are ways around it. First starting with the minus values in the system, others are scrapping leveling all together.
That way, you can add a TINY LITTLE MINISCULE butnotdefeattheproblemalltogether Chip to the solution.
Going into the minus has done wonders for me, as I have no default base ZERO. Rather -99999 or whatever.
So in a summary; RPG Maker 2003's EXP system is stupid, but there are ways around it. First starting with the minus values in the system, others are scrapping leveling all together.
Xenomic
1752
I do not have that patch at all (I'm not sure how I would use it, and don't know how compatible it is with DynRPG right now or with this text-editor patch). Though I do wonder just how much difference that makes. Mind showing the Total Experience tab with that formula?
To show my dilemma, here's my EXP Total and EXP Per level using my current formulas:
Of note, both starting characters of the game start at level 6, with the next at level 9. Most EXP you can gain in the first dungeon from one encounter is roughly 400 EXP. Yeah....something doesn't seem right here at all...
To show my dilemma, here's my EXP Total and EXP Per level using my current formulas:
Of note, both starting characters of the game start at level 6, with the next at level 9. Most EXP you can gain in the first dungeon from one encounter is roughly 400 EXP. Yeah....something doesn't seem right here at all...
Essenceblade
19
I highly, highly, highly recommend you get the patch. You will have your developing time eased by about 10x. E.g (Able to test play while still having access to the database)
By the text patch, do you mean that line that appears in the message box when typing dialogue? In which case, I've always had that with the David patch.
By the way, the actual patch is hard to find, but I still have the URL saved and on my computer. THAT link is just to read up on its features.
I highly recommend reading up on this.
And the patch is here, if you want to download it.
Here is my exp curve and difference. My EXP system is still being worked on, and the monsters give fairly low exp in my game so you can understand the low amounts.
I've selected that specific method because, I'm working on a system that makes the character level, and then set the exp back to 0, making them have to work from 0 to the per said number.
Edit: I have Dynrpg and the David patch installed onto my program. The David patch is just a RPG2003.exe file. You simply copy and paste it over your existing RPG2003.exe file and done.
It's not the RPG_RT file that you use in your specific game.
By the text patch, do you mean that line that appears in the message box when typing dialogue? In which case, I've always had that with the David patch.
By the way, the actual patch is hard to find, but I still have the URL saved and on my computer. THAT link is just to read up on its features.
I highly recommend reading up on this.
And the patch is here, if you want to download it.
Here is my exp curve and difference. My EXP system is still being worked on, and the monsters give fairly low exp in my game so you can understand the low amounts.
I've selected that specific method because, I'm working on a system that makes the character level, and then set the exp back to 0, making them have to work from 0 to the per said number.
Edit: I have Dynrpg and the David patch installed onto my program. The David patch is just a RPG2003.exe file. You simply copy and paste it over your existing RPG2003.exe file and done.
It's not the RPG_RT file that you use in your specific game.
Xenomic
1752
Hmm....from 0 to that said number you say? That's...actually a rather clever idea. o.o That could actually alleviate a lot of the problems with the default (actually, I wonder if 2K9 Ultimate doesn't have Goliath Patch by default, since that's what I've been using recently and I can test play while in database in there too...hmmm).
Essenceblade
19
Cherry's RM2k9? I'm not sure, I've always used RPG Maker 2003, not 2009 Ultimate, but I could be wrong. If you can set EXP values into the minus while in the exp editor, then you have the patch. (Also, if you can set attribute numerals to -1 or higher, that's also another proof you may have the David Patch.)
As for the exp system, yes. I haven't been deep in programming it yet, but eventually I will.
As for the exp system, yes. I haven't been deep in programming it yet, but eventually I will.
Xenomic
1752
Ehhh...guess not. Can't set the EXP to lower than 1 on the first bit so no...though I do get 1,000,000 slots for items sooo I don't know! @_@
That does sound like the way to do it, though how to do it sounds tricky without making it loop...would give more customization and freedom for sure though. I might have to bump that from you at some point if that's alright with ya lol...
Also yes, that's the text thingie that I have right now. So it's in the Goliath patch as well then? Though that one looks like it only shows one line instead of 2 (where there would be the faceset).
EDIT - On a sidenote, I won't have to give anyone anything special other than what I have in the game for this David patch, correct? Monsters with 1 billion HP....wohoooooo. That'll make making monsters funner~
That does sound like the way to do it, though how to do it sounds tricky without making it loop...would give more customization and freedom for sure though. I might have to bump that from you at some point if that's alright with ya lol...
Also yes, that's the text thingie that I have right now. So it's in the Goliath patch as well then? Though that one looks like it only shows one line instead of 2 (where there would be the faceset).
EDIT - On a sidenote, I won't have to give anyone anything special other than what I have in the game for this David patch, correct? Monsters with 1 billion HP....wohoooooo. That'll make making monsters funner~
Essenceblade
19
Nah, you don't have the Goliath / David patch, but rather a blend of similarities to the Goliath Patch. If you can't set EXP lower than 1, then you don't have it. What you have is cherry's special touches he added within his version of the maker himself. I think RM 2009 is amazing, but I prefer to stick with the customized / patched versions of RPG Maker 2003.exe myself.
Xenomic
1752
I see (darn me editing the last post before you saw it! >_<)
So yeah, question from last post still remains I suppose. And does this patch also allow to import spritesheets that are bigger than 25 sprites like 2k9?
So yeah, question from last post still remains I suppose. And does this patch also allow to import spritesheets that are bigger than 25 sprites like 2k9?
Dyhalto
7536
Just to offer an alternative to what's being discussed, Shadows of Evil : Wings of Time has a custom Exp system without a CMS or CBS. It's fairly simple, but it keeps players from burning through levels when they get above 40.
Essenceblade
19
author=Xenomic
EDIT - On a sidenote, I won't have to give anyone anything special other than what I have in the game for this David patch, correct? Monsters with 1 billion HP....wohoooooo. That'll make making monsters funner~
It works just like any regular game. The only things you'll be changing are your base RPG 2003.exe, which in turn dispatches your RPG_RT with special features, while still being the same as any other RPG_RT file. In simple; no special programs or makers are needed to play your game.
author=Xenomic
So yeah, question from last post still remains I suppose. And does this patch also allow to import spritesheets that are bigger than 25 sprites like 2k9?
Sadly, no :(. But I never exactly regarded it as a problem, myself. Though I would like it!
Xenomic
1752
I see. And it seems the David patch also doesn't allow more than 8 sprites per frame for animations or more than 100 battle events. Sadness...oh well~
Ah, so I can continue to distribute my game the way I have been then. Works for me~
EDIT - And now sadness. Can't tell how much space I have now when NOT using facesets with the text editor thingie. ;_;
Ah, so I can continue to distribute my game the way I have been then. Works for me~
EDIT - And now sadness. Can't tell how much space I have now when NOT using facesets with the text editor thingie. ;_;
Essenceblade
19
Yeah, there are downsides as well as upsides. It's really just a matter of which one you adapt to more easily. I chose the David Patch because it allowed more things database wise. Mainly the exp curve customization and the ability to make attributes be absorbed when the rating is E. But that's my opinion. I like 2009 Ultimate, and I even envy most of its features, but I just found the David patch a lot more adapt for me.
Xenomic
1752
I'm using both of them combined right now sooo lol. If anything, the David patch will make making bosses later on in the game much more manageable without having invisible monsters and conditions just to not have the battle end prematurely (plus makes doing Scans so much easier without having to recalculate after an invisible version of the boss appears and whatnot). I guess I'll just have to watch how I handle text without that second line then! Shouldn't be TOO hard methinks.
Still gonna wait for the day that someone does those two things up there. I'm surprised it hasn't been done unless it's really that hard to do @_@
Still gonna wait for the day that someone does those two things up there. I'm surprised it hasn't been done unless it's really that hard to do @_@
Essenceblade
19
Oh wow, I only just realized you can use both in combination. I just opened my version of my project that I used in terms of David in Rm2k9 Ultimate, and it turns out all the things you could do in the David Patch are still retained!
Looks like when you patch your project's RPG_RT with the David patch, and then proceed to open it in RM2k9 Ultimate, all the numerical values are retained. I can still go into the minus numerals.
Looks like when you patch your project's RPG_RT with the David patch, and then proceed to open it in RM2k9 Ultimate, all the numerical values are retained. I can still go into the minus numerals.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Essenceblade, your curve is exactly the same as the default curve: level 2X costs twice as many experience points as level X. Setting negative numbers doesn't change that.
Some random ideas:
- If you make the max level in your game something more managable like 10 or 15, you can do this by having 10 or 15 versions of each enemy, which give differing amounts of XP but are otherwise identical, and changing which one the player fights based on the highest level member of the party.
- Alternately you can do the same thing but just have a couple versions of each enemy, one that gives normal XP and one that gives none, and maybe one or two intermediate versions in between that give partial XP. Then make it so the player gets normal XP until a certain level, and maybe reduced XP for one or two levels, and then no XP after that. This is less work, especially for games with high max levels, but it's not as clean of a curve and you might not like the idea of enemies ever giving 0 XP.
- If you're crazy you can make some huge damn custom experience system, which is what I did. Try not to do this, it's a pain in the ass. Unless your game is seriously massive, it's going to be way more work than the above two methods. My game has a little over 250 enemy groups, and I can guarantee that making ten versions of each of them would have been less work than getting my custom exp system working.
- RM2K3 does allow for enemy conditional behavior that depends on the party's level. If you can't make enemies stop giving worthwhile XP after they stop being challenging, perhaps you can make them always be challenging. In other words, give enemies stronger abilities when the player is higher level. This can annoy players, and tends to cause as many balance problems as it solves, but maybe the problems it causes are ones you can deal with other ways.
Some random ideas:
- If you make the max level in your game something more managable like 10 or 15, you can do this by having 10 or 15 versions of each enemy, which give differing amounts of XP but are otherwise identical, and changing which one the player fights based on the highest level member of the party.
- Alternately you can do the same thing but just have a couple versions of each enemy, one that gives normal XP and one that gives none, and maybe one or two intermediate versions in between that give partial XP. Then make it so the player gets normal XP until a certain level, and maybe reduced XP for one or two levels, and then no XP after that. This is less work, especially for games with high max levels, but it's not as clean of a curve and you might not like the idea of enemies ever giving 0 XP.
- If you're crazy you can make some huge damn custom experience system, which is what I did. Try not to do this, it's a pain in the ass. Unless your game is seriously massive, it's going to be way more work than the above two methods. My game has a little over 250 enemy groups, and I can guarantee that making ten versions of each of them would have been less work than getting my custom exp system working.
- RM2K3 does allow for enemy conditional behavior that depends on the party's level. If you can't make enemies stop giving worthwhile XP after they stop being challenging, perhaps you can make them always be challenging. In other words, give enemies stronger abilities when the player is higher level. This can annoy players, and tends to cause as many balance problems as it solves, but maybe the problems it causes are ones you can deal with other ways.
Xenomic
1752
I like #2 up there right now...but that would be scary to do lol. I have 326 NORMAL enemy groups (does not include Bosses), and that's only for 50% of the game. Yes, my game is stupidly huge, and setting things up balanced is really hard. Money doesn't seem to be a big issue really, I have that where I want it since that's easy to work with. EXP though yeah...though that might mean I'll have to make like multiple copies of the same map so that random encounters are done easily that way...ugh. And that means about 500 something maps copy/pasted in that manner...;_;
Essenceblade
19
author=LockeZ
Essenceblade, your curve is exactly the same as the default curve: level 2X costs twice as many experience points as level X. Setting negative numbers doesn't change that.
I know, but that is my base curve I'm using for a system which sets the exp count to 0 when you level up.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
How does that work? Last time I checked, setting the player's XP to 0 also set their level to 1.
Essenceblade
19
Damnit, I completely missed that... looks like I'm going to have to put up with the default system.
I dare test to create a custom exp system... hmm, which to do. Chances are I'm going to stick with the default one, and just work around it.
I dare test to create a custom exp system... hmm, which to do. Chances are I'm going to stick with the default one, and just work around it.
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