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PsychoFreaX
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CloseSo wearing shoes is a cliche? It's used everywhere. Everyone does it.
Seriously though, I think it's not a cliche because there's a realistic reason for it that's not due to stereotypes.
Seriously though, I think it's not a cliche because there's a realistic reason for it that's not due to stereotypes.
Crystalgate
694
Well, the definition is more in line of overused to the point of losing its original meaning or effect. Predictability is of course a consequence of it being overused. However, I've learned that everyone seem to have their own criteria for what's a cliche and what's not. Some call anything that has happened a lot before a cliche, even if only 0,1% of the population has actually seen it happening multiple times.
Wait I think I got a better example more people can agree with. The one I posted before is overused. But some can say it's too universal to be a cliche anymore.
So how about this? Spiky haired hero and it starts snowing. Both should be roughly just as frequent. Yet most people would agree one is a cliche and not the other. Anyone wonder why?
So how about this? Spiky haired hero and it starts snowing. Both should be roughly just as frequent. Yet most people would agree one is a cliche and not the other. Anyone wonder why?
eplipswich
2728
There's a difference between "spiky-haired hero" and "start snowing". Spiky-haired hero can be considered as cliche, but you can't consider "start snowing" as cliche. Snowing is a part of nature, and that's very different from cliche. Same goes as wearing shoes. Wearing shoes has become the thing, and is part of the defined nature and life. Spiky-haired hero, however, is not part of nature and life, unless you tell me everyone starts having spiky-hair and starts becoming heroes in real life, which would be dumb.
Cliche is what I would put it as a unique idea that is used the first time, never before seen in real life and then more and more people use the idea to the point where it becomes too typical and is no longer unique and meaningful. Of course, one could argue that wearing shoes was once something unique, and then gradually become a norm. But the thing is, the idea of wearing shoes is now a part of life, and is still meaningful, not a cliche. The term "cliche" is really more used to describe an idea, expression, element of an artistic work (Look for cliche in Wikipedia), and really only limited to artistic works.
Hope you can understand what I'm saying. It's kinda hard to explain because of psychology and all, but that's how it's defined as. At least to me.
In summary: Anything that's recognized as part of life or nature isn't what people would consider a cliche. Any idea that is overused (usually in artistic works) until it is no longer significant and is not part of life or nature is a cliche. There are, however, always exceptions.
Cliche is what I would put it as a unique idea that is used the first time, never before seen in real life and then more and more people use the idea to the point where it becomes too typical and is no longer unique and meaningful. Of course, one could argue that wearing shoes was once something unique, and then gradually become a norm. But the thing is, the idea of wearing shoes is now a part of life, and is still meaningful, not a cliche. The term "cliche" is really more used to describe an idea, expression, element of an artistic work (Look for cliche in Wikipedia), and really only limited to artistic works.
Hope you can understand what I'm saying. It's kinda hard to explain because of psychology and all, but that's how it's defined as. At least to me.
In summary: Anything that's recognized as part of life or nature isn't what people would consider a cliche. Any idea that is overused (usually in artistic works) until it is no longer significant and is not part of life or nature is a cliche. There are, however, always exceptions.
Thanks for taking my point and returning it right back at me. Very helpful.
Ok sorry. But what I meant to say in my earlier posts are why wearing shoes and it's snowing are not cliches(sorry if I didn't make that clear). How some ideas could have been used as frequently as cliches without them being cliches.
Ok sorry. But what I meant to say in my earlier posts are why wearing shoes and it's snowing are not cliches(sorry if I didn't make that clear). How some ideas could have been used as frequently as cliches without them being cliches.
cliche = overused expression or idea
wearing shoes and weather forecasts are not cliche, because they're not ideas/expressions
what WOULD be a weather cliche is at the most dramatic moment in a romance story, it starts pouring rain
or when the dark and epic battle is finally won, the sun emerges from the clouds
to the more relevant question
The key is that the idea/expression is overused. If people don't consider it overused, it's not really cliche, even if it's used frequently.
wearing shoes and weather forecasts are not cliche, because they're not ideas/expressions
what WOULD be a weather cliche is at the most dramatic moment in a romance story, it starts pouring rain
or when the dark and epic battle is finally won, the sun emerges from the clouds
to the more relevant question
author=PsychoFreaX
How some ideas could have been used as frequently as cliches without them being cliches.
The key is that the idea/expression is overused. If people don't consider it overused, it's not really cliche, even if it's used frequently.
eplipswich
2728
author=Sauce
cliche = overused expression or idea
wearing shoes and weather forecasts are not cliche, because they're not ideas/expressions
what WOULD be a weather cliche is at the most dramatic moment in a romance story, it starts pouring rain
or when the dark and epic battle is finally won, the sun emerges from the clouds
to the more relevant questionauthor=PsychoFreaX
How some ideas could have been used as frequently as cliches without them being cliches.
The key is that the idea/expression is overused. If people don't consider it overused, it's not really cliche, even if it's used frequently.
Yeah, this is what I'm trying to convey. Cliches are more used for idea/expression. Weather isn't an idea/expression. Wearing shoes isn't an idea/expression either.
Psycho, sorry if I wasn't clear, but somewhere in my lines, you should have at least understood what I'm trying to convey, particularly in the 1st paragraph.
It's really kinda complicated, though. This is kinda like debating whether art is everything. It's pretty subjective, so to speak.
Eventually I intend to make a game that deliberately subverts every cliche on that list, just to see if I can pull it off. I don't think it'll work.
xavion
0
It's not actually possible to do it due to conflicting cliches, I know I've had the same idea. I did figure out that you could fit over 90% of them in, the problem one's are the ones about both male and female main character's and the sequel one is slightly problematic, that and the fact that you'll need an extremely developed, big and non-linear game that has just about every technology level everywhere at the same time. Of course the easiest way to subvert easily over 50% of them is just create a non-linear game that tries to be as realistic as possible.
Crystalgate
694
author=LockeZ
I have a working theory regarding cliches. We think of cliches as things that are used too commonly in stories, but I propose that's not actually correct. Cliches are actually in the middle range of common-ness.
Why did I overlook that post?
I don't object to the two items in the middle of your diagram because they have a certain common-ness. The power of love cliché annoys me because it's very ridiculous when played straight and the kidnapped girlfriend cliché annoys me because usually it appeals to an IMO sexist taste I certainly don't enjoy.
However, I still think you're on to something. I have a lot of times seen people in GameFAQs complain over how often the hero uses swords. The question is, does having a middle ground common-ness cause people to dislike things or is there a third factor in play?
This isn't a list of cliches. This is a roadmap to making great RPGs (I've used it to great success!)
Well, your game is a milkshake of retro Dragon Warrior and Final Fantasy games so I suppose people would only care whether it actually captures a retro feeling.
It was a good milkshake, though.
It was a good milkshake, though.
LDanarkos
430
Any list of RPG cliches will typically range the full gamut of possibilities from truly cliche and trite, not even true, to completely necessary and logical, and so on. For example, the collect the crystals / orbs / star pieces / rings / tri-force cliche is not only trite, but there is thin justification for why you would even use it. A cliche about the main character being spikey-haired... not sure if that's even statistically true, are we basing this on FF7? Any cliche involving flashbacks, tragic flaws, etc. isn't a "cliche," it's an element of story-telling, a traditional part of the tragic comedy, etc.. Cliches involving the hero's village being destroyed or some other wronging is basically the necessary element of the hero having a motive to embark on his/her journey. Of course, the motive doesn't always have to be the same in every game, but the most logical motives for a possessed hero going to the ends of the Earth are also going to be the most commonly used motives. If you want to make a game where the hero kills 10,000 enemies to get revenge for someone copying his fashion designs... good luck with that.
Darken
3952
author=ldanarkos
For example, the collect the crystals / orbs / star pieces / rings / tri-force cliche is not only trite, but there is thin justification for why you would even use it.
nah it's important, it lets you know how far you are in the game while still being tied to the story. games can be without that stuff but it's one of those psychological implementations that work on people who like to collect things. Almost every Nintendo game takes advantage of this. Not sure if it's a good thing but, there are logical reasons for having it.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=LDanarkos
If you want to make a game where the hero kills 10,000 enemies to get revenge for someone copying his fashion designs... good luck with that.
I would play this game
LockeZDanarkosI would play this game
If you want to make a game where the hero kills 10,000 enemies to get revenge for someone copying his fashion designs... good luck with that.
seriously, that is the plot of this game
also, possibly shadow hearts (3): from the new world
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I need more candy cane
