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THE DIRECTION OF RPG MAKER COMMUNITY
Posts
Instinct
0
Instinct
View playlists
CloseRM games are better today? Are you joking? If by “better” you mean they “look” better… then ok I’ll give you that simply because the new engine allows you to utilize higher quality images.
What I’m talking about are the presentation techniques used…
I can’t remember the title, I’ve downloaded so many RMVX and Ace games lately. One game opened with these beautiful pictures… I mean stunning images. STILL images! With today’s engine you can’t make these move!? I sat there staring at a beautiful image sit still for about 3 minutes reading text upon text of introduction. “Move Picture” has been present since RM2k, you don’t need RUBY to do that.
And RM creators back then utilized this feature with great effect. Now, people are simply content of plastering a static picture on the screen and spend their time instead looking for scripts. And if the script they need does not exist… well then I guess what’s there will simply have to do.
I ask you to click on the link below, and see what I’m talking about. Watch the video on that page. An old member sent me this from one of his old projects. Keep in mind, EVERYTHING you are about to see was made with sequence of 2D still images… with RM2K. With the capabilities of today’s engine… the example below should be MINIMUM. Some of the sequence in the vid below would still blow me away even when done in today’s engine… and it will most likely look a lot better. I mean really, it looks like the guy isdiving through the clouds… using 2D images. And that aircraft looks like it flew right at you… and then it shifts to cockpit view and the guy smiles at you… it’s like straight out of an anime movie. THAT is the kind of innovation I’m talking about.
The guy now does the same thing commercially: http://littlevagrantx.blogspot.com/
The point I’m trying to make is that most people aren’t doing this level of production… yet they dish out comments to newbies as if they were creating this type of work.
What I’m talking about are the presentation techniques used…
I can’t remember the title, I’ve downloaded so many RMVX and Ace games lately. One game opened with these beautiful pictures… I mean stunning images. STILL images! With today’s engine you can’t make these move!? I sat there staring at a beautiful image sit still for about 3 minutes reading text upon text of introduction. “Move Picture” has been present since RM2k, you don’t need RUBY to do that.
And RM creators back then utilized this feature with great effect. Now, people are simply content of plastering a static picture on the screen and spend their time instead looking for scripts. And if the script they need does not exist… well then I guess what’s there will simply have to do.
I ask you to click on the link below, and see what I’m talking about. Watch the video on that page. An old member sent me this from one of his old projects. Keep in mind, EVERYTHING you are about to see was made with sequence of 2D still images… with RM2K. With the capabilities of today’s engine… the example below should be MINIMUM. Some of the sequence in the vid below would still blow me away even when done in today’s engine… and it will most likely look a lot better. I mean really, it looks like the guy isdiving through the clouds… using 2D images. And that aircraft looks like it flew right at you… and then it shifts to cockpit view and the guy smiles at you… it’s like straight out of an anime movie. THAT is the kind of innovation I’m talking about.
The guy now does the same thing commercially: http://littlevagrantx.blogspot.com/
The point I’m trying to make is that most people aren’t doing this level of production… yet they dish out comments to newbies as if they were creating this type of work.
Wow, I think we've gone a whole month since the last time this topic was made. That's a new record.
tl;dr
"the rm games of today aren't as good as the ones we thought were good when we were 12 and had no standards"
"yes they are"
"no they're not"
"yes they are"
"no they're not"
"closed"
tl;dr
"the rm games of today aren't as good as the ones we thought were good when we were 12 and had no standards"
"yes they are"
"no they're not"
"yes they are"
"no they're not"
"closed"
SnowOwl
5188
Nostalgia goggles at maximum there, buddy. If you were refering to the "Old Gameplay"
video in the link, there are plenty of newer games that does similar stuff to many of the things in the video. Just because you took out some of the impressive things from old games does not mean all games did this back then, just as not all games do this now.
video in the link, there are plenty of newer games that does similar stuff to many of the things in the video. Just because you took out some of the impressive things from old games does not mean all games did this back then, just as not all games do this now.
Instinct
0
Again you miss the point, and you fail to understand what is being said so let me state again: It isnt about which games are better, but rather that the people dishing out all the "how to" around here don't really know what they're talking about. And really, plenty of games have done sequences like these? Lol please name one. Because i looked at exit fate... and it did not do this
Sai, you forgot "I take the opinions expressed here as a personal insult!"
I would say that there are some cool games pushing the boundaries of their respective engines. I Miss The Sunrise comes to mind. Set Discrepancy, too. Both games are pretty damn complex in their design and implementation.
As for the bit about my entry into the RM world... you gotta keep in mind I AM old. I just entered the scene late.
If we want the next generation of game devs to be giants, we should let them stand on our shoulders, so to speak. Help them make their game constructively, or write those tutorials and articles for them. Foster that spirit we had in the early days! A lot of people are already doing this! Things can only get better.
I would say that there are some cool games pushing the boundaries of their respective engines. I Miss The Sunrise comes to mind. Set Discrepancy, too. Both games are pretty damn complex in their design and implementation.
As for the bit about my entry into the RM world... you gotta keep in mind I AM old. I just entered the scene late.
If we want the next generation of game devs to be giants, we should let them stand on our shoulders, so to speak. Help them make their game constructively, or write those tutorials and articles for them. Foster that spirit we had in the early days! A lot of people are already doing this! Things can only get better.
I don't read the forums as much as I used to, but when did anyone criticize someone's game for not having enough rotating pictures...? Care to provide some links?
I get it you two guys got gigs in the biz, good for you, but why do you expect everyone to spend as much time and effort on making pretty cutscenes as you once did? What do you care?
I get it you two guys got gigs in the biz, good for you, but why do you expect everyone to spend as much time and effort on making pretty cutscenes as you once did? What do you care?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=InstinctThis is a dumb comment. You don't have to be a good designer to be a good critic. They are two seperate skills. Some people work on improving their own games, and other people work on improving other people's games. Both are important roles.
The point I’m trying to make is that most people aren’t doing this level of production… yet they dish out comments to newbies as if they were creating this type of work.
I'm not necessarily a good critic, but it takes practice to figure out what kind of advice works and what kind doesn't, and I'm trying to get better.
StarSkipp
2007
You have to realise that RMN is not the defacto place for rpg maker development, sadly enough. There are hundreds of sites in all different languages that are also in the scene who are creating top notch games, as well as numerous tumblr blogs for those that are shy. Hell you should check out the crazy shit that's happening over at Pixelation.
Also you have to keep in mind that a lot of people who come to rmn are first timers who are starting out or are on thier first game still, you can't expect them to make genre defining experiences from the get go.
In my opinion we're steadily approaching a new golden age of game development that'll bring back the so called glory days of (lol) Gaming World. Just give us time yeah =o=
Here's a idea maybe you should write up an tutorial teaching us about the long forgotten secrets of picture rotation, char animation or giant anime facesets. Oh and maybe how to acquire rips? I really want to know how that works? (Okay I'm pushng it now)
Also you have to keep in mind that a lot of people who come to rmn are first timers who are starting out or are on thier first game still, you can't expect them to make genre defining experiences from the get go.
In my opinion we're steadily approaching a new golden age of game development that'll bring back the so called glory days of (lol) Gaming World. Just give us time yeah =o=
Here's a idea maybe you should write up an tutorial teaching us about the long forgotten secrets of picture rotation, char animation or giant anime facesets. Oh and maybe how to acquire rips? I really want to know how that works? (Okay I'm pushng it now)
Instinct
0
author=LockeZ
I'm not necessarily a good critic, but it takes practice to figure out what kind of advice works and what kind doesn't, and I'm trying to get better.
Exactly... you have room to learn, we all do. So the next time you speak to new community members don't act like you don't. Mission accomplished.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I've never in my two years in this website seen a single person act like that. So, stop being accusatory.
eplipswich
2728
So then what is your point, Instinct? That we should go back to the good old days? No, what has now moved on has moved on. RPG Maker game making is only but a hobby. Not many people really care about making the best now. In the past, yes, because RM2k is a new thing, never before seen in the international community. Of course, people are willing to go to depths making good games. Now, however, the RM concept has pretty much been saturated, so I suggest you don't get your hopes too high.
There's no benefit in making RM games at all, other than the fact that it simply is a hobby and for satisfying oneself. Nothing more. (Even if it's for commercial purpose, that's not gonna be one's bread and butter.)
There's no benefit in making RM games at all, other than the fact that it simply is a hobby and for satisfying oneself. Nothing more. (Even if it's for commercial purpose, that's not gonna be one's bread and butter.)
Killer Wolf
1235
Nowadays, all of the techniques that took ingenuity to implement in RPG Maker 2000 can be done with simple settings in RMVXAce.
All the know how is going out of surgery, all the make do. These young squirts today couldn't lance a pimple without an electric vibrating scalpel.
...ABL... If you don’t know this game, or you cannot understand what makes it so good because you are comparing it to today’s graphics… then I daresay you have yet to graduate from RM school.
I would rather people spend time developing their own games than worshiping at the alter of the past. Knowing where you come from is one thing, setting up permanent residence there is another entirely.
When Gaming World was young all the newbies came in...
Elitism that was successfully disguised as “constructive criticism”. In time people started to forget…
Assholes are like Assholes. Every site has them and they're all loud.
Enter RMN. The cycle starts again.
As a long term citizen of both, I find that comparing RMN to Gaming World is highly offensive. This site has better management, less bias against "noobs", and is generally a more supportive and progressive community than Gaming World ever was. (Granted, I was hanging out on Squirrel's Rm2k site before I found GW, and by that time the front page was already a static mess promising a Roller Coaster game and broken links to tutorials about how to emulate final fantasy seven's systems.)
It is not the quality of these games that make them stand out… it is their quality at the time they were made. Let’s see you push RMVXAce the way these greats pushed RM2k.
There are modern maker games that DO push the boundaries, if not always in terms of engine bending, at least in the terms of presentation. They've already been mentioned, but Star Stealing Prince, Set Discrepancy, and I Miss The Sunrise are all great accomplishments.
I prefer using 2k3, as I'm not fluent in the language that would really make the move to VX worthwhile.
The newer makers have changed the game making landscape. If nothing else, they push people who still use older tech to elevate their craft. When it is "easy," as you say, to make things look good and pull astounding features off the assembly line to drop into your game, keeping your little 2k3 project relevant is a task in and of itself.
Exactly... you have room to learn, we all do. So the next time you speak to new community members don't act like you don't. Mission accomplished.
Granted, I stumbled into this topic during a late night bout with insomnia, but this didn't EVER seem to be the point you were trying to make.
UPRC
5516
author=Killer Wolf
As a long term citizen of both, I find that comparing RMN to Gaming World is highly offensive. This site has better management, less bias against "noobs", and is generally a more supportive and progressive community than Gaming World ever was. (Granted, I was hanging out on Squirrel's Rm2k site before I found GW, and by that time the front page was already a static mess promising a Roller Coaster game and broken links to tutorials about how to emulate final fantasy seven's systems.)
As someone who practically lived on GW, I agree 100% with the above. RMN is nothing like GW at all. GW was an insecure community that didn't even like what it was (a primarily RPG Maker-based community). GW wanted to alienate the RPG Maker users by pushing them into a small corner of the site and giving them zero support or voice and then blaming THEM on the dwindling focus of the website. It was full of general assholes and cliques that seemed disinterested in the community, instead opting to do nothing but post trolls and junk. GW was good back around 2002-2003 when RPG Makers were still catching on, but that's about it. As a whole, post 2002/2003 GW was a pretty rancid community that specialized in treating RPG Maker like garbage and generally looking down on anyone who used it.
RMN is full of great and helpful people and there's a real sense of community here. Everyone is pretty mature and we get along pretty well with each other. Nobody here slams anyone for using RPG Maker products (the closest is Craze, and he only wants people to use superior RPG Makers instead) and we're all very supportive of each other and our chosen craft. To even suggest that RMN could be similar to the juvenile dick waving parade that was GW is pretty crazy. Bloodrose, your whole "all of your new games SUCK, go idolize the old ones you losers" mantra is much more in line with the attitudes that polluted GW. RMN's memberbase understands that good RPG Maker games can be both old AND new, and we're supportive of new talent. We can still be douches to some beginners who are struggling, but we're quick to change our tune and act like the grown-ups that we are.
WOO! BLOODROSE IS BACK! Glad to see you're still lurking around, I sometimes wondered whatever happened to LiquidMotion. And I often imagine a full version "In The Name of the Rose" as well, that game really felt like it was going somewhere awesome! It's still talked about fondly in the rare and old games thread, actually.
Anyways, to join in the discussion: I do believe there are some people genuinely pushing the limits of newer maker programs. It's hard to find them because there are so many first timer projects and the like, but spend enough time searching and it becomes easy pretty fast. That being said, I still tend to lean towards 2k3 games, as I feel there are creators who are still doing some pretty innovative things with it (Alter Aila Genesis comes to mind).
I myself haven't done anything to try and push any limits of anything. Nor do I want to. What I do like trying to do is making each of my different series look, feel, and play differently, as i feel that challenges me enough. I think that sorta gets to the root of the problem there, nobody "wants" to break new ground in these engines. They are retro based for a reason, they allow us to revisit the games of yesteryear and create carbon copies with our own little spins on them.
As for the criticism, I feel it's gotten a lot better over the 3 years I've been an active member here. I still occasionally get or see something like "Fuck this, that blah blah looks fucking awful", but after a while it becomes pretty easy to let it roll off your back and ignore those users. There are certain members that you just come to expect negative comments from wherever they go too, so it shouldn't be so difficult to just let things be. If they fail to get a rise out of you then you've probably pissed them off in return anyway, plus they look bad for it in the eyes of the nicer critics.
Anyways, to join in the discussion: I do believe there are some people genuinely pushing the limits of newer maker programs. It's hard to find them because there are so many first timer projects and the like, but spend enough time searching and it becomes easy pretty fast. That being said, I still tend to lean towards 2k3 games, as I feel there are creators who are still doing some pretty innovative things with it (Alter Aila Genesis comes to mind).
I myself haven't done anything to try and push any limits of anything. Nor do I want to. What I do like trying to do is making each of my different series look, feel, and play differently, as i feel that challenges me enough. I think that sorta gets to the root of the problem there, nobody "wants" to break new ground in these engines. They are retro based for a reason, they allow us to revisit the games of yesteryear and create carbon copies with our own little spins on them.
As for the criticism, I feel it's gotten a lot better over the 3 years I've been an active member here. I still occasionally get or see something like "Fuck this, that blah blah looks fucking awful", but after a while it becomes pretty easy to let it roll off your back and ignore those users. There are certain members that you just come to expect negative comments from wherever they go too, so it shouldn't be so difficult to just let things be. If they fail to get a rise out of you then you've probably pissed them off in return anyway, plus they look bad for it in the eyes of the nicer critics.
Oh boy, another of these topics.
I wonder if people who say things like this even bother to look at what's on the front page right now.
I wonder if people who say things like this even bother to look at what's on the front page right now.
author=DE
when, you know, no one actually made games, just talked about making them, with only a handful of people producing anything of value.
Isn't this still going on?
author=Solitayre
Oh boy,another of these topics.
I wonder if people who say things like this even bother to look at what's on the front page right now.
I don't really think that I Miss The Sunrise, as neat as it is, being on the front page really defeats the crux of his argument, or really has anything to do with it really.
Uhh, it is a great game, that 'broke' the boundaries of the engine. I don't think you will be seeing another game like that in RM for a while.
Dyhalto
7536
I can see where Instinct's coming from.
2k and 2k3 required you to learn to tinker. Once you developed the skills and confidence to tinker with one aspect, you inevitably moved onto another. Your original vision moved on unabated.
XP/VX/Ace have RUBY looming over the user. Even though you could totally ignore it and go whole hog with eventing, there's a lingering sense of deficiency when scripts are readily available. But learning RUBY is a daunting task. So where does an undecided user go? Somewhere halfway. Use other people's scripts, compromising your original vision to fit the capabilities of what you downloaded, and maybe event some things here or there.
It's something that's up to each individual. XP/VX/Ace users have to decide if they're either going to learn RUBY, say "screw RUBY. I'll show everyone the power of Events", or create a complimenting mixture of both (which requires a level of mastery).
Too bad he phrased his thoughts in such a way as to look like an old crank bitching about new shit.
2k and 2k3 required you to learn to tinker. Once you developed the skills and confidence to tinker with one aspect, you inevitably moved onto another. Your original vision moved on unabated.
XP/VX/Ace have RUBY looming over the user. Even though you could totally ignore it and go whole hog with eventing, there's a lingering sense of deficiency when scripts are readily available. But learning RUBY is a daunting task. So where does an undecided user go? Somewhere halfway. Use other people's scripts, compromising your original vision to fit the capabilities of what you downloaded, and maybe event some things here or there.
It's something that's up to each individual. XP/VX/Ace users have to decide if they're either going to learn RUBY, say "screw RUBY. I'll show everyone the power of Events", or create a complimenting mixture of both (which requires a level of mastery).
Too bad he phrased his thoughts in such a way as to look like an old crank bitching about new shit.
