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SAY HELLO TO BLACK CHEMISTRY AND BLACK MATHEMATICS!
Posts
republic
20
republic
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CloseHaving the deciding factor based on race, is racism. I don't care how you justify it. Being white, black, yellow, brown, etc. is meaningless. Elevating your race is the same as lowering the race of another.
How is that elevating race? Dude, they're saying the black teenagers are struggling to complete school and they are taking measures to combat it. That isn't elevating race to cause another to descend, it's trying to elevate a race to try and get an even keel with other races.
These aren't quantitative numbers we're dealing with here, they're qualitative. Raising one race doesn't lower another - unless you're concerned about be "lowered" to equal footing with another race. And that, my friend, is what I would call racism.
These aren't quantitative numbers we're dealing with here, they're qualitative. Raising one race doesn't lower another - unless you're concerned about be "lowered" to equal footing with another race. And that, my friend, is what I would call racism.
republic
20
The fact that they single out those kids as black is racism. Being black certainly isn't the reason for their situation. Race is arbitrary. Maybe the material is too hard, difficult times at home, not enough study time, etc. When they use race as being the most important factor in fixing those drop out rates, that is racism and it's also very lazy.
To be at equal footing, treat people as people instead of labeling them with race or color. If people keep worrying about race, then we'll never get equal footing for everyone.
To be at equal footing, treat people as people instead of labeling them with race or color. If people keep worrying about race, then we'll never get equal footing for everyone.
Nah, that is just growing up in a country so overly sensitive to race that it is afraid to talk it and about assumes every mention of race must be hateful.
We seriously have the wrong approach to race. You're right, your actual race is abitrary. But your culture may also be tied to your race - surely, you can change your culture, but for most people it is pretty set in stone.
In the other thread, I blamed economics. Poor black folks and poor white folks alike are less likely to graduate high school. The problem is black students are much more likely to be poor here in North America. Now, you can't just magically make all black families middle class (well, you could, but wouldn't a good Republican like yourself commit suicide before giving handouts?), so creative measures are needed.
Instead of trying to make all races, culture and thoughts conform into one, we should learn to be respectful of others and not be afraid that people are different.
We can't allow a race to continue to fail. If you have any better ideas, I am sure they would appreciate them.
We seriously have the wrong approach to race. You're right, your actual race is abitrary. But your culture may also be tied to your race - surely, you can change your culture, but for most people it is pretty set in stone.
In the other thread, I blamed economics. Poor black folks and poor white folks alike are less likely to graduate high school. The problem is black students are much more likely to be poor here in North America. Now, you can't just magically make all black families middle class (well, you could, but wouldn't a good Republican like yourself commit suicide before giving handouts?), so creative measures are needed.
Instead of trying to make all races, culture and thoughts conform into one, we should learn to be respectful of others and not be afraid that people are different.
We can't allow a race to continue to fail. If you have any better ideas, I am sure they would appreciate them.
Shadowtext
120
author=republic link=topic=1170.msg17465#msg17465 date=1211502088Race isn't arbitrary. In attempting to move away from racism, people have moved into the dangerous territory of treating everyone as if they're the same, which isn't the same thing as accepting people for who they are. A person's race doesn't define their ability to succeed or prevent them from making good decisions in their life, but it does bring with it a lot of baggage that can affect who they are while young. Very little of this is genetic (almost all of it is cultural), and none of it is inevitable or inescapable, but it makes a difference. Every effort should be made to indoctrinate them into the same society as any other child is welcomed, and any effort to do that strikes me as a good one, and as anti-racist. This isn't the same thing as bussing all black children to special schools so that they don't mix with white children. This is offering those children whose parents opt-in the opportunity to get to the same place taking a different path, if the one that most children take isn't working for them.
Race is arbitrary.
This is all of course assuming that the classes aren't dumbed down, just that they have their focuses and/or methods changed to better suit the kids it's teaching. There seems to be an underlying assumption by a lot of people here that the "Black Curriculum" is going to be automatically treating its students as underachieving dopes. If that is the case, then yeah, it's bad. But as I see it, there's nothing wrong with taking a different path to get to the same destination. Segregation was about disenfranchising people based on race. This seems more about enfranchising them while giving special attention to race.
maladroithim
1495
author=rcholbert link=topic=1170.msg17460#msg17460 date=1211499245
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you always got. And what Toronto has is a terrible graduation rate for children of African descent. Win or lose, at least they are trying.
It's better than the black dropout rate in Minneapolis :(
demondestiny
889
author=WIP link=topic=1170.msg17416#msg17416 date=1211477678author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=1170.msg17414#msg17414 date=1211476468I don't see how putting all the black kids in their own school will help anything.
Whatever helps out the kids, I suppose. If it turns out to work, then by all means, let them do their thing.
It wouldn't help anything. I spoke of this in another discussion way back. I went to pick up my friends kid from school, i asked him how his day was and all he told me was that he had a huge amount of english homework all focusing on black history and black culture and how us so called "white devils" have taken away everything they once owned. Of course, this is a load of bullshit. Soon this is all that will be taught in our schools but naturally nothing will be done about it.
It wouldn't help anything. I spoke of this in another discussion way back. I went to pick up my friends kid from school, i asked him how his day was and all he told me was that he had a huge amount of english homework all focusing on black history and black culture and how us so called "white devils" have taken away everything they once owned. Of course, this is a load of bullshit. Soon this is all that will be taught in our schools but naturally nothing will be done about it.
What the hell does that have to do with anything?
Erave
1444
Black Kids dropping out at high rates is a fact. I agree with that.
However when you create specific polices and programs that single out SPECIFIC races, you are inherently creating something that is unequal. This isn't racist towards white people because they can't go to the school (you said they could), but rather black people. It's almost, "you're not good enough to go to normal school." I dunno, maybe this will be good for them, but it seems to be pretty unequal and unfair to the kids to me. This is really going to marginalize the kids even more.
However when you create specific polices and programs that single out SPECIFIC races, you are inherently creating something that is unequal. This isn't racist towards white people because they can't go to the school (you said they could), but rather black people. It's almost, "you're not good enough to go to normal school." I dunno, maybe this will be good for them, but it seems to be pretty unequal and unfair to the kids to me. This is really going to marginalize the kids even more.
maladroithim
1495
Who is betting this is all a stunt to get dropout rates and GPAs to increase in area High Schools so that they get more funding and incentives?
Erave
1444
Maybe I reading into this much, but it worries me greatly. We'll see how it turns out.
And BTW, I did say that white people could attend. That wasn't the problem. But this school is different than other schools. It's specific for the black community. You said it yourself they are focusing on getting BLACK TEACHERS to engage more students of COLOUR.
But hey civil disagreement right. I really disagree with a lot of you guys but I'm not gonna hold any harsh feelings. Cool. 8)
And BTW, I did say that white people could attend. That wasn't the problem. But this school is different than other schools. It's specific for the black community. You said it yourself they are focusing on getting BLACK TEACHERS to engage more students of COLOUR.
But hey civil disagreement right. I really disagree with a lot of you guys but I'm not gonna hold any harsh feelings. Cool. 8)
maladroithim
1495
author=Erave link=topic=1170.msg17562#msg17562 date=1211573839
But hey civil disagreement right. I really disagree with a lot of you guys but I'm not gonna hold any harsh feelings. Cool. 8)
No way man you are obviously not racist enough to chill with the rest of us . . .
Is that really so different from Catholic Schools hiring CHRISTIAN teachers and teaching specialized classes like Christian Ethics? Or French Immersion schools hiring FRENCH teachers and teaching mathematics in french (complete with french math terms!)?
Incidentally, I went to a French Catholic Elementary school growing up, moving onto to a Catholic High School in grade 8. I am not catholic, and neither are my parents (I'm actually an athiest).
However, the catholic schools where I grew up were the better schools, though, so I stuck with them. (I also got 108% in Christian Ethics).
So, how is having a school with BLACK teachers teaching regular courses but also maybe a specific AFRICAN CULTURE class really any different? (Other than the fact that people seem to view blacks as being marginalized, thus anything that specifically targets their culture is RACIST).
Incidentally, I went to a French Catholic Elementary school growing up, moving onto to a Catholic High School in grade 8. I am not catholic, and neither are my parents (I'm actually an athiest).
However, the catholic schools where I grew up were the better schools, though, so I stuck with them. (I also got 108% in Christian Ethics).
So, how is having a school with BLACK teachers teaching regular courses but also maybe a specific AFRICAN CULTURE class really any different? (Other than the fact that people seem to view blacks as being marginalized, thus anything that specifically targets their culture is RACIST).
maladroithim
1495
author=kentona link=topic=1170.msg17566#msg17566 date=1211577037
Is that really so different from Catholic Schools hiring CHRISTIAN teachers and teaching specialized classes like Christian Ethics? Or French Immersion schools hiring FRENCH teachers and teaching mathematics in french (complete with french math terms!)?
Incidentally, I went to a French Catholic Elementary school growing up, moving onto to a Catholic High School in grade 8. I am not catholic, and neither are my parents (I'm actually an athiest).
However, the catholic schools where I grew up were the better schools, though, so I stuck with them. (I also got 108% in Christian Ethics).
So, how is having a school with BLACK teachers teaching regular courses but also maybe a specific AFRICAN CULTURE class really any different? (Other than the fact that people seem to view blacks as being marginalized, thus anything that specifically targets their culture is RACIST).
Well personally I disagree with the concept of any education with an agenda other than educating the student. Catholic school is a terrible thing in my opinion because it attaches partiality to something that should be totally non-partial (i.e. knowledge). Furthermore private schools in many countries are not held to the same educational standards as public schools, which is worrying - there are no controls to ensure that every student has at least basic competency in key aeas and there is no measure of success.
Also get your analogies out of our debate. Analogies are a terrible way to try and prove a point.
Shadowtext
120
It's a bit amusing that the method being cited as "less racist" by so many here is the systematic (though not necessarily fully intentional) disenfranchisement of those black children who don't identify with the eurocentric school system currently in effect well enough to continue on with it.
