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WHAT KIND OF GAME WOULD YOU LIKE TO SEE ON-SITE?
Posts
obsorber
50
obsorber
View playlists
CloseSadly there are tons of original game concepts and ideas but resources are expensive and hard to get hold of or even make so that's why people use resources others have allowed them to use and music of commercial games.
author=obsorberI feel as though RM games shouldn't go/worry about CUSTOM EVERYTHING. It's a burden - especially if the game is long.
Sadly there are tons of original game concepts and ideas but resources are expensive and hard to get hold of or even make so that's why people use resources others have allowed them to use and music of commercial games.
Exploit original ideas in small games,
and have everything focus on that aspect. Increase your ambitions when you know you, or your team can handle it.
Too many super-special ideas in one RMgame is dumb 90% of the time.
Someone said they wanted to make a Skyrim-like once ago. One person making such a game would take longer than UPRC's Blackmoon. =3
Roots
14
I don't mind seeing resources used between projects at all. What I mind is people using copyrighted content in their games, such as pulling artwork from Final Fantasy titles, Chrono Trigger, etc. Not withstanding the fact that use of such content is illegal, I just plain don't like seeing artwork from my favorite games being stripped out and bastardized into a much lower quality amateur title. It's difficult for me to explain exactly how I feel. It's like I don't want my nostalgia and endearment for that content to be damaged as a result of seeing it in a game that I know won't live up to the standards of the original.
author=RootsCan't argue with that.
I don't mind seeing resources used between projects at all. What I mind is people using copyrighted content in their games, such as pulling artwork from Final Fantasy titles, Chrono Trigger, etc. Not withstanding the fact that use of such content is illegal, I just plain don't like seeing artwork from my favorite games being stripped out and bastardized into a much lower quality amateur title. It's difficult for me to explain exactly how I feel. It's like I don't want my nostalgia and endearment for that content to be damaged as a result of seeing it in a game that I know won't live up to the standards of the original.
When the game is free, I don't mind seeings rips of any kind. I guess the best way to cope with those RM games is not focusing on the rips and instead focusing on what makes the game shine.
I see a lot of people criticize a project and leave out/forget about all the things that make it good. If a dude is doing a project in his spare time for funsies, you cannot look at it as though it was Final Fantasy 15 or *insert commercial game with a large team and budget here*
Not saying you do that, of course.
author=Roots
I don't mind seeing resources used between projects at all. What I mind is people using copyrighted content in their games, such as pulling artwork from Final Fantasy titles, Chrono Trigger, etc. Not withstanding the fact that use of such content is illegal, I just plain don't like seeing artwork from my favorite games being stripped out and bastardized into a much lower quality amateur title. It's difficult for me to explain exactly how I feel. It's like I don't want my nostalgia and endearment for that content to be damaged as a result of seeing it in a game that I know won't live up to the standards of the original.
Honestly, I'd rather generally see rips and/or public resources used skillfully rather than that time spent on original resources since a great majority of them tends to be crappy.
Yes, I am being bluntly honest and calling them as I see them. ┐(￣ー￣)┌
KingArthur and Clareain Christopher's opinions are no doubt common around here; that's why the RM communities are the way they are.
Outside of RM communities, not using ripped resources is a no-brainer. People aren't going to respect you if you do. (But they're not likely to mind the use of RTP; people outside the RM communities don't know what RTP is)
I think the RM communities can be rather insular in their thinking. There seems to be an emphasis on making something that *looks* like a commercial game, right up to the point of using the actual sprites and sounds from an existing commercial game. I have the impression that players in other indie communities will forgive sub-par presentation so long as the game plays well or is original in some other way.
Some things that I think players in other communities are mindful of that we in RM communities aren't, because we're used to it:
- the tiny 640 x 480 resolution
- the lack of mouse support
- the lack of support for platforms besides Windows
Those can limit a game's appeal, too.
Outside of RM communities, not using ripped resources is a no-brainer. People aren't going to respect you if you do. (But they're not likely to mind the use of RTP; people outside the RM communities don't know what RTP is)
I think the RM communities can be rather insular in their thinking. There seems to be an emphasis on making something that *looks* like a commercial game, right up to the point of using the actual sprites and sounds from an existing commercial game. I have the impression that players in other indie communities will forgive sub-par presentation so long as the game plays well or is original in some other way.
Some things that I think players in other communities are mindful of that we in RM communities aren't, because we're used to it:
- the tiny 640 x 480 resolution
- the lack of mouse support
- the lack of support for platforms besides Windows
Those can limit a game's appeal, too.
author=flowerthiefGood points for games that want to go commercial versus games that want to be a community gem.
KingArthur and Clareain Christopher's opinions are no doubt common around here; that's why the RM communities are the way they are.
Outside of RM communities, not using ripped resources is a no-brainer. People aren't going to respect you if you do. (But they're not likely to mind the use of RTP; people outside the RM communities don't know what RTP is)
I think the RM communities can be rather insular in their thinking. There seems to be an emphasis on making something that *looks* like a commercial game, right up to the point of using the actual sprites and sounds from an existing commercial game. I have the impression that players in other indie communities will forgive sub-par presentation so long as the game plays well or is original in some other way.
Some things that I think players in other communities are mindful of that we in RM communities aren't, because we're used to it:
- the tiny 640 x 480 resolution
- the lack of mouse support
- the lack of support for platforms besides Windows
Those can limit a game's appeal, too.
And while we're on the subject, I want to see games that are quality > quantity.
The only games I want to take up a lot of my life are games that cost 50+ bucks.
Try to limit your game to around 10 hours, and destroy ANY padding in the main story. Do to playing a lot of RM games for feedback videos, I feel as though "epic rpgs," have an extremely high chance of having lots of people rage-quit. IMO, It's not worth it.
Yeah, yeah - people might look at Star Stealing Prince or *insert fairly short, yet awesome game here,* and say they wish it was longer, but you can't have your cake and eat it too. =3
eplipswich
2728
author=bulmabriefs144
I'd like to see a forum-made game.
RpgRevolution is doing one, I was wondering if we could too.
Forum-made games?
You do know that RMN has a number of RMN community games, right? I would consider those as "forum-made games". They're not exactly based around the forums, but the community members still gather together to make a game.
Examples:
RMN Christmas Card 2009
Here and Now of Yesterday (Manor Map Madness)
Super RMN All-Stars
If you wish to take part in community event games as above, you should keep an eye out for any upcoming events under the Events tab at the top (and not really the forums, anyway).
author=flowerthief
KingArthur and Clareain Christopher's opinions are no doubt common around here; that's why the RM communities are the way they are.
Outside of RM communities, not using ripped resources is a no-brainer. People aren't going to respect you if you do. (But they're not likely to mind the use of RTP; people outside the RM communities don't know what RTP is)
I think the RM communities can be rather insular in their thinking. There seems to be an emphasis on making something that *looks* like a commercial game, right up to the point of using the actual sprites and sounds from an existing commercial game. I have the impression that players in other indie communities will forgive sub-par presentation so long as the game plays well or is original in some other way.
Personally, I believe that the overall quality of games (with certain exceptions) have dropped since RMXP and subsequent RM engines came out and using rips somehow became a no-go zone overnight (not to mention copy-pasting scripts willy nilly). Story and gameplay have always been on the crappy side on average in most RM games, the visuals using rips were a saving grace because it made the game at least presentable (and when combined with good writing and programming it just brought those points home even stronger).
Regarding developer/game respect, there have been plenty of games that used rips, and in some cases combined them with public resources like REFMAP, to great effect and to those games we give due respect, praise and critic just like any other good game. Assuming a good game, what's the problem?
I assume of course that all of the above is concerning free games, commercial games are an entirely different story.
Some things that I think players in other communities are mindful of that we in RM communities aren't, because we're used to it:
- the tiny 640 x 480 resolution
- the lack of mouse support
- the lack of support for platforms besides Windows
1. Not entirely a demerit given that most RM games aim to emulate the feeling of oldschool SNES and PSX games. The low resolution usually plays to our favor.
2. While it depends on the game, mice have never been a clearly essential means of human input and is a moot point.
3. RM as an engine is developed for Windows using Windows-specific APIs, consequently being cross-platform was never in the design scheme. On top of that, Windows continues to be the dominant operating system in the PC market. Meanwhile, Apple is too fortified of a walled garden and Linux (besides Android) is utterly too disorganized from both marketing and logistical POVs to orchestrate any standardized release.
Do I want to see RM games be cross-platform? Sure, but it won't happen as long as the other operating systems are not appealing to develop and market for.
author=KingArthur
Honestly, I'd rather generally see rips and/or public resources used skillfully rather than that time spent on original resources since a great majority of them tends to be crappy.
Yes, I am being bluntly honest and calling them as I see them. ┐(￣ー￣)┌
That's the whole reason I argue with myself to release anything because for one, If you're making original music, characters, pictures, you get what I mean, someone is bound to rip it and put it in their game, which makes me kind of shiver at the idea of them using my music in their project, ESPECIALLY if the music is a beautiful composition. I've seen it happen already.
author=flowerthief
Some things that I think players in other communities are mindful of that we in RM communities aren't, because we're used to it:
- the tiny 640 x 480 resolution
- the lack of mouse support
- the lack of support for platforms besides Windows
Those can limit a game's appeal, too.
- The resolution is an artistic choice. A lot of times, a classic style RPG is very ugly and can be confusing to look at in higher resolutions.
- I for one have made more mouse-supporting games than otherwise.
- I personally think this is the most important point here. But this isn't a deal breaker for most people (it is for me, but I am the 1%). (depending how you count) 90% of home computers run windows, and likely 99.9% of all users have access to windows machine with XP or greater.
That's not say it's not a good point. I for one still can't play any RPGMaker games because I'm a Linux.
author=AquaXranoXauthor=KingArthurThat's the whole reason I argue with myself to release anything because for one, If you're making original music, characters, pictures, you get what I mean, someone is bound to rip it and put it in their game, which makes me kind of shiver at the idea of them using my music in their project, ESPECIALLY if the music is a beautiful composition. I've seen it happen already.
Honestly, I'd rather generally see rips and/or public resources used skillfully rather than that time spent on original resources since a great majority of them tends to be crappy.
Yes, I am being bluntly honest and calling them as I see them. ┐(￣ー￣)┌
While the use of rips from commercial games is generally accepted within the RM community, the use of rips from other RM and indie games is absolutely not tolerated.
Yeah, we all realize this is a double standard and we even had a lengthy discussion on the subject not too long ago on the forums. With that said though, rest easy knowing that even though the RM community accepts using rips we will never tolerate stealing from our fellow peers.
author=KingArthur
While the use of rips from commercial games is generally accepted within the RM community, the use of rips from other RM and indie games is absolutely not tolerated.
Yeah, we all realize this is a double standard and we even had a lengthy discussion on the subject not too long ago on the forums. With that said though, rest easy knowing that even though the RM community accepts using rips we will never tolerate stealing from our fellow peers.
This puts my soul to rest, Amen..
I'm getting that insular, provincial feeling again. "We'll steal from others but we won't steal from our peers!"
I don't think presentation can save a game lacking in story/gameplay. Granting exceptions for particularly artsy games, story/gameplay is of primary importance without which a game is a shallow experience dressed up in bows and ribbons.
Developers invest too much in presentation--time & resources that could have been spent making the gameplay deeper. I'm talking about mainstream developers as well as RM developers who try to ape them. Presentation can surely enhance a gaming experience, but in today's climate there is too much emphasis on it. Not everyone agrees with this but I feel strongly about it; I'll be happy to argue the point further :)
The same issues apply to free games as well as commercial ones. As Roots said (and I'm the same way) there are those among your audience who aren't going to appreciate what they've seen used before and in a better way (what is being used was created expressly for its purpose the first time around). They may lose respect just knowing resources were used without permission. And this is to say nothing of the legal troubles that can arise if a game chances to make it big.
My advice to new game developers is plan to make it big! Maybe not at first, but have such a goal. The 14-year-old kid ripping sprites & music from Chrono Trigger to make derivative games intended only for an audience of others like him is probably hurting nobody; I get that. But the sooner he breaks the habit the better off he'll be. Do you want to go on being that kid or do you want to be professional? (by professional I don't necessarily mean commercial) To those who answer the former, you can probably ignore everything I'm saying. My post wasn't directed at you.
There is also an argument to be made about how the attitude, "I steal materials from others because there aren't enough materials", can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If more people were to make new materials, there would be more materials. There's a categorical imperative in that, I think.
I also think you'll respect yourself more and what you've made knowing you didn't rip from someone else to do so.
That might be, and I'm curious now...how much does low resolution actually affect a game's popularity? Would be interesting to see some data on the subject.
Couldn't the same be said of any means of input? Given that different players have different preferences, the more means of input supported the better (whenever applicable).
When I am playing games developed in other gaming communities, the lack of joystick support will sometimes be the reason I stop playing a game, because joystick is my preferred means of input. (it boggles my mind why anyone would make a platformer without built-in joystick support...and yet, people do!) It's about not limiting your audience any more than you have to.
Same thing with supporting multiple platforms.
Maybe I'm sensitive to these things because for over 5 years I insulated myself in the RM communities, whose attitudes are not shared by the greater gaming world, and some of them came as a surprise to me. I don't like to see new developers get into habits that will limit their potential in the long run when they have the talent to go beyond. At the least, it's good to be aware that others aren't always accustomed to our habits, and how that can limit our audiences.
author=KingArthur
Personally, I believe that the overall quality of games (with certain exceptions) have dropped since RMXP and subsequent RM engines came out and using rips somehow became a no-go zone overnight (not to mention copy-pasting scripts willy nilly). Story and gameplay have always been on the crappy side on average in most RM games, the visuals using rips were a saving grace because it made the game at least presentable (and when combined with good writing and programming it just brought those points home even stronger).
I don't think presentation can save a game lacking in story/gameplay. Granting exceptions for particularly artsy games, story/gameplay is of primary importance without which a game is a shallow experience dressed up in bows and ribbons.
Developers invest too much in presentation--time & resources that could have been spent making the gameplay deeper. I'm talking about mainstream developers as well as RM developers who try to ape them. Presentation can surely enhance a gaming experience, but in today's climate there is too much emphasis on it. Not everyone agrees with this but I feel strongly about it; I'll be happy to argue the point further :)
Regarding developer/game respect, there have been plenty of games that used rips, and in some cases combined them with public resources like REFMAP, to great effect and to those games we give due respect, praise and critic just like any other good game. Assuming a good game, what's the problem?
I assume of course that all of the above is concerning free games, commercial games are an entirely different story.
The same issues apply to free games as well as commercial ones. As Roots said (and I'm the same way) there are those among your audience who aren't going to appreciate what they've seen used before and in a better way (what is being used was created expressly for its purpose the first time around). They may lose respect just knowing resources were used without permission. And this is to say nothing of the legal troubles that can arise if a game chances to make it big.
My advice to new game developers is plan to make it big! Maybe not at first, but have such a goal. The 14-year-old kid ripping sprites & music from Chrono Trigger to make derivative games intended only for an audience of others like him is probably hurting nobody; I get that. But the sooner he breaks the habit the better off he'll be. Do you want to go on being that kid or do you want to be professional? (by professional I don't necessarily mean commercial) To those who answer the former, you can probably ignore everything I'm saying. My post wasn't directed at you.
There is also an argument to be made about how the attitude, "I steal materials from others because there aren't enough materials", can become a self-fulfilling prophecy. If more people were to make new materials, there would be more materials. There's a categorical imperative in that, I think.
I also think you'll respect yourself more and what you've made knowing you didn't rip from someone else to do so.
1. Not entirely a demerit given that most RM games aim to emulate the feeling of oldschool SNES and PSX games. The low resolution usually plays to our favor.
That might be, and I'm curious now...how much does low resolution actually affect a game's popularity? Would be interesting to see some data on the subject.
2. While it depends on the game, mice have never been a clearly essential means of human input and is a moot point.
Couldn't the same be said of any means of input? Given that different players have different preferences, the more means of input supported the better (whenever applicable).
When I am playing games developed in other gaming communities, the lack of joystick support will sometimes be the reason I stop playing a game, because joystick is my preferred means of input. (it boggles my mind why anyone would make a platformer without built-in joystick support...and yet, people do!) It's about not limiting your audience any more than you have to.
Same thing with supporting multiple platforms.
Maybe I'm sensitive to these things because for over 5 years I insulated myself in the RM communities, whose attitudes are not shared by the greater gaming world, and some of them came as a surprise to me. I don't like to see new developers get into habits that will limit their potential in the long run when they have the talent to go beyond. At the least, it's good to be aware that others aren't always accustomed to our habits, and how that can limit our audiences.
I love "artsy" games, but those games love to sacrifice everything else. And that sucks.
I want to create an "artsy game" without sacrificing everything else. I tend to find drawing characters and whatnot a good way to learn their personality, which I feel helps a lot. I will, however, avoid things that slow me down or bore me. Spriting is just not my type of art, so I'll never create a completely custom game unless I'm being paid or something.
If anyone can make a good mixture of "artsy" with fun gameplay, or a good story -- I'll give you a cookie. Of course, avoid being too ambitious. :)
I want to create an "artsy game" without sacrificing everything else. I tend to find drawing characters and whatnot a good way to learn their personality, which I feel helps a lot. I will, however, avoid things that slow me down or bore me. Spriting is just not my type of art, so I'll never create a completely custom game unless I'm being paid or something.
If anyone can make a good mixture of "artsy" with fun gameplay, or a good story -- I'll give you a cookie. Of course, avoid being too ambitious. :)
I have long dreamed of (and often attempted) making an RTS game with destructible terrain. Someday, perhaps I will.
author=bulmabriefs144
I'd like to see a forum-made game.
RpgRevolution is doing one, I was wondering if we could too.
that WOULD be cool, maybe it'll happen soon enough, the whole community putting together one awesome rpg chock full of puzzles, dungeons, mini-games and character cameos. dunno bout you guys but that sounds beastly XD
