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AN FFX THREAD FOR YOU SCHMUCKS
Posts
demondestiny
889
demondestiny
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Close@Terin- Wow, i absolutely hated Vaan from FFXII but penelo was cool. All the characters in that game really interested me especially Balthier.
"The leading man never dies"
"The leading man never dies"
You cant honestly say that the ffIX out did its predecessors. Like there is no way you can say it did. (Ok you could, but if you do...I will pay you a visted. But you must be within a 1 mile radius) FFVII was the game that converted alot of gamers to the religion like lifestyle of rpg and FFVIII was the most bought game out of the three. FFXI, like Terin said, is just bits and pieces of old ff plots. Now Im not nor did I say the game wasnt good. I like it, but the game did not pass or even match the last two games before it. Ok maybe it could have been a close tie to the other two...but we will never know. Mwhahahahahah(I got to stop doing that)
@ NoblemanNick- You should just go and buy a new one. Its like $20 new.
@ NoblemanNick- You should just go and buy a new one. Its like $20 new.
Darken
3952
FF7 was the game that impressed and hyped people into the JRPG genre with fancy FMV advertising. FF7 was just like FF6, some rebels are screwing with some organization, but then some villian comes out and becomes the next big threat. TIME TO SAVE THE WORLD. Really it was just like any other RPG, except the advertising and PS1 thing really caught peoples' eye.
FF9 was completely different from the lot, it had a huge fairy tale atmosphere, the whole background with the mist and airships, the main character wasn't an emo kid, etc. It's mechanics took alot of the really good old stuff from the really early final fantasies (yeah each character have distinct abilities un-fuckingbelieveable). There was also a nice romance story 10 times better then the Squall and Rinoa makeup.
Speaking of FF8, it smashed the sales records all because everyone thought it was going to be the next FF7, but it wasn't, instead we got a story that didn't make too much sense, and a broken battle system (and those fucking tutorials, ugh). Squall was the worst main character ever, if theres one word that I can describe him, it's: Whatever, because thats all he says throughout the entire game.
Not saying FF7 and FF8 were terrible at all, but really FF9 is agruebly the best and solid Final Fantasy. Nostalgia aside folks.
And wow we really went off topic here.
FF9 was completely different from the lot, it had a huge fairy tale atmosphere, the whole background with the mist and airships, the main character wasn't an emo kid, etc. It's mechanics took alot of the really good old stuff from the really early final fantasies (yeah each character have distinct abilities un-fuckingbelieveable). There was also a nice romance story 10 times better then the Squall and Rinoa makeup.
Speaking of FF8, it smashed the sales records all because everyone thought it was going to be the next FF7, but it wasn't, instead we got a story that didn't make too much sense, and a broken battle system (and those fucking tutorials, ugh). Squall was the worst main character ever, if theres one word that I can describe him, it's: Whatever, because thats all he says throughout the entire game.
Not saying FF7 and FF8 were terrible at all, but really FF9 is agruebly the best and solid Final Fantasy. Nostalgia aside folks.
And wow we really went off topic here.
You have to remember though back when Final Fantasy VII came out it's story and gameplay for an Rpg were amazing. Of course now when you try replay it it's still a good game to play but it's story and characters don't make for anything revolutionary anymore because gaming in general has gotten much more in depth.
Final Fantasy VIII was so shit when I tried to replay it recently. I mean the graphics were still nice and stuff but the characters are so stale and the games battle system and Junctioning all that crap is almost broken. It pretty much killed my good memories of enjoying that game back in the day.
Final Fantasy IX is still a great game though, a hell of a lot better then Final Fantasy VIII and the gameplay(Although the incredibly slow ATB was annoying) still hold up in some ways. The story and characters, visual style and music are still great in my opinion and like you said a hell of a lot better romantic connection between Zidane & Garnet then Squall & Rinoa.
Final Fantasy VIII was so shit when I tried to replay it recently. I mean the graphics were still nice and stuff but the characters are so stale and the games battle system and Junctioning all that crap is almost broken. It pretty much killed my good memories of enjoying that game back in the day.
Final Fantasy IX is still a great game though, a hell of a lot better then Final Fantasy VIII and the gameplay(Although the incredibly slow ATB was annoying) still hold up in some ways. The story and characters, visual style and music are still great in my opinion and like you said a hell of a lot better romantic connection between Zidane & Garnet then Squall & Rinoa.
Neophyte
155
The story in Final Fantasy VII wasn't that great. You can take all the shit from Crisis Core, Advent Children, Dirge or Cerberus etc and it still doesn't have that good of a story. Decent characters, but not a great story. The gameplay did make up for it, though. I agree with Darken.
Final Fantasy IX is so much better than Final Fantasy VIII. I hated FF VIII so much because it's the worst storyline out of any Final Fantasy, and the characters are horrible. None of them were interesting at all except for maybe Rinoa.
Final Fantasy X was a pretty good one as well. I probably enjoyed it more than IX and VII, but I really had to grow into it. I didn't like the game at first.
If there was a contest for the best soundtrack though, that would be a tough one.
Final Fantasy IX is so much better than Final Fantasy VIII. I hated FF VIII so much because it's the worst storyline out of any Final Fantasy, and the characters are horrible. None of them were interesting at all except for maybe Rinoa.
Final Fantasy X was a pretty good one as well. I probably enjoyed it more than IX and VII, but I really had to grow into it. I didn't like the game at first.
If there was a contest for the best soundtrack though, that would be a tough one.
Darken
3952
FF8's soundtrack was probably the best. Balamb Garden is now playing in your head, manually.
FFIX is mixed. It is very traditional to FF's. If you like FFVII, then you might as well like FFIX. They are more or less the same game. The only difference is the style. It's still "Gotta fight the big bad guy who is somehow related to the main character who can't remember where he's from and has a crush on the female lead, but that gets weird, but at least she doesn't die, but she does go mute and pointless for a whole FREAKING disc and disappears several times. Plus, he's aided by your stereotypical big guy who is very one-sided, supports his cause blindly, and all the like. Then you have the naive character who is very new to the world who is wise, but ultimately who is the philosopher of the group. The only difference is that things are inverted (Vivi vs. Red XIII). Red is old, but still technically young. Vivi is young, but his soul is basically super old (because it's from the other universe/stagnant old souls or whatever they were implying). You have the one character who uses a spear who is TOTALLY CAUGHT IN THE PAST (Freya vs. Cid, I mean come on), and that holds them back from trying new things. They all get closure somewhere in it about who they are the major events. The art/game style is different, but they follow the same cliches, same basic storyline, etc. Even the themes! FFVII - World is bad and I'm confined to this polluted mess, Wow and now I'm free and in the world and things are going good, and omg now meteor is coming. FFIX - World is polluted with evil mist and we know how bad it is, wow the mist is gone and things are better, omfg the mist is back and things are bad again with the imminent end of the world.
You didn't just write that ... oh, ho, ho nooo. How was RedXIII naive? In fact, he was very wise throughout the whole game. Vivi on the other hand was always confused about his origins until the very end of the game, but he wasn't necessarily the "philosopher." Also, Zidane's character is so much more vibrant than Cloud any day. Also, I disliked FFVII. I found all of the characters emotionless and bland, but I loved FFIX. Yeah, sure. They have a villain with silver hair - but hey, you might as well say that FFVII is the same game was Lunar Silver Star Story (the original silver haired fag villain). What you described are just stock/basess for characters. I could easily take what you said and twist it to FFX or almost any game/piece of literature. Plz.
FFVII was the game that converted alot of gamers to the religion like lifestyle of rpg
That doesn't mean anything to an individual person playing a game.
I'm veering off topic, but whatever, I'll go on. FFVII was fantastic for the first disc, but afterwards it became so boring and stretched out. The story of the game wasn't really that good. FFVIII had a very interesting setting/world, but it fell flat after awhile. I think the only character I liked was Squall, and yes, at first he didn't care and was extremely unapproachable, but towards the end, like any normal person, he changes. While it could be rather cheesy, at least it was fairly understandable. The rest of the cast was terribly boring. I felt that even by the end of the game and they saved the world yada, yada. Most of them were still kids. None of them really changed and they still behaved in the same manner. Though for an RPG, it was okay, its just not as great as other people say. I also agree with the above post - ever since FF6, FF8 was the only game that came close to have as good of a soundtrack.
FFIX to me was extremely nostalgic - as if it was celebrating an "end of an era." But disregarding nostalgia, I enjoyed both VII and VIII, but I felt that IX did a better job at being entertaining, something I felt X lacked.
Darken
3952
FFVII was fantastic for the first disc, but afterwards it became so boring and stretched out.
Agreed, Midgar was the best part of the game.
My problem with FF9 was everything after the first half of the second disk (leaving the Mist Continent). It was all kinda there but not interesting enough to really care about what happened. To me the rest of FF9 was just kinda there with me playing it then the credits started rolling when my back was turned. I don't remember anything about it at all. Except maybe a tree.
FF7 was almost as bad. Midgar was where the game was awesome, then you leave. Some things happen that are note worthy (Cid joins, something gets shot with a huge fucking gun that exists because its a huge fucking gun) and then you win. The great start was much shorter, but the rest of the game was somewhat better.
FF7 was almost as bad. Midgar was where the game was awesome, then you leave. Some things happen that are note worthy (Cid joins, something gets shot with a huge fucking gun that exists because its a huge fucking gun) and then you win. The great start was much shorter, but the rest of the game was somewhat better.
Terin
13
YummyDrumsticks,
It's not about Red being naive necessarily. It was the kind of character he played. The genre. If you look at him from what he is (and not who) you would say "He's young for his race and tries to act older and get more respect. Also, he seriously lacked a lot of understanding about how things were in his world -- for example being caught by Hojo, not knowing the truth of his father, not relating other key things." Red was a great character, don't get me wrong. My point is that he's a thinker. As is Vivi. They both served as characters who learned something (and acted as foils for it) to the other characters.
And yes, Zidane was a vibrant character compared to Cloud. But you have to keep in mind the things go on with the characters. Cloud and Zidane are basically kind of womanizers. Cloud less obviously so, but when you're given responses in the game for him, they're always along the lines of "How did you sleep last night? >Next to Tifa, who wouldn't sleep great!!??" (totally true, by the way, I wouldn't even need pillows) His attitude is very "just pay me and I'll do what I need to." Zidane always looked out for his brothers, but in the same way, Cloud was a part of AVALANCHE. When the people die in Sector 7, he's trying to ease them "Hey, take it easy, don't say anything more." "I thought you weren't so soft, Cloud..." Cloud is the equivalent of Zidane before he joined Tantalus. Character design-wise, look at the drawings of Zidane and Cloud that Amano did side-by-side. They look really similar. Look at Tidus mixed in there. Now you should be kind of saying "WTF" because from a very non-artsy/unappreciative-of-Amano-viewpoint, they look more or less the same with different clothes and sometimes one guy may have more gel in his hair. That's about it. (Do I need to also mention that all three of those lead characters are not related to anyone else in their world; Cloud = Special type of Soldier who got more Mako; Zidane = Not from Gaia; Tidus = Don't make me spoil the HAPPY ENDING IN FFX for anyone who hasn't played it)
My point is that the characters aren't as dissimilar as you think. They fit into very easily-cast classes. The main character for FF7, 9, 10 all can't remember things about their past, have to come to grips with their very making and founding core morals, and then ultimately face down the thing which ends up being the antithesis of that. Cloud's was Sephiroth and the lies in it all (but also the truth); Zidane's was who he was and what he was, in addition to Kuja his brother; Tidus's was his father and his issues with that and where he was, and he ultimately had to face down Sin, who was Jecht. You see what I'm saying here? Vivi, Wakka, and Red XIII play naive characters. The characters who learn a lot about things. Vivi learns about the world and how it really is; Red pretty much the same, but elements about his race, father, the planet; Wakka is arguably the most naive in FFX, but the same could be said for everyone in it since they all find out "omg the cycle of Sin can be averted and omg we killed Yunalesca and omg ancient war and omg Al Behd aren't so bad after all."
The characters all are very identifiable. I loved FF12 because they didn't follow these patterns the same. Vaan, Ashe, and Penelo are the naive characters. Basch, Balthier, and Fran are not. Vaan isn't overly colorful (save for minorly at the beginning), but the story shifts around all the characters at some point in time or another (except for Penelo -- so close though!) where they all get their lime-light. It was similar to FF6 in that regard that at first it's Terra, then Locke, then Sabin, then Terra/Banon, then Locke/Edgar, then ... Do I need to go on? Seriously, each character had some time in the spotlight! Even Mog got a pretty nice cameo at the beginning (and at the Esper in Narshe later, right? Can't remember).
That's my point. Trends of characters.
It's not about Red being naive necessarily. It was the kind of character he played. The genre. If you look at him from what he is (and not who) you would say "He's young for his race and tries to act older and get more respect. Also, he seriously lacked a lot of understanding about how things were in his world -- for example being caught by Hojo, not knowing the truth of his father, not relating other key things." Red was a great character, don't get me wrong. My point is that he's a thinker. As is Vivi. They both served as characters who learned something (and acted as foils for it) to the other characters.
And yes, Zidane was a vibrant character compared to Cloud. But you have to keep in mind the things go on with the characters. Cloud and Zidane are basically kind of womanizers. Cloud less obviously so, but when you're given responses in the game for him, they're always along the lines of "How did you sleep last night? >Next to Tifa, who wouldn't sleep great!!??" (totally true, by the way, I wouldn't even need pillows) His attitude is very "just pay me and I'll do what I need to." Zidane always looked out for his brothers, but in the same way, Cloud was a part of AVALANCHE. When the people die in Sector 7, he's trying to ease them "Hey, take it easy, don't say anything more." "I thought you weren't so soft, Cloud..." Cloud is the equivalent of Zidane before he joined Tantalus. Character design-wise, look at the drawings of Zidane and Cloud that Amano did side-by-side. They look really similar. Look at Tidus mixed in there. Now you should be kind of saying "WTF" because from a very non-artsy/unappreciative-of-Amano-viewpoint, they look more or less the same with different clothes and sometimes one guy may have more gel in his hair. That's about it. (Do I need to also mention that all three of those lead characters are not related to anyone else in their world; Cloud = Special type of Soldier who got more Mako; Zidane = Not from Gaia; Tidus = Don't make me spoil the HAPPY ENDING IN FFX for anyone who hasn't played it)
My point is that the characters aren't as dissimilar as you think. They fit into very easily-cast classes. The main character for FF7, 9, 10 all can't remember things about their past, have to come to grips with their very making and founding core morals, and then ultimately face down the thing which ends up being the antithesis of that. Cloud's was Sephiroth and the lies in it all (but also the truth); Zidane's was who he was and what he was, in addition to Kuja his brother; Tidus's was his father and his issues with that and where he was, and he ultimately had to face down Sin, who was Jecht. You see what I'm saying here? Vivi, Wakka, and Red XIII play naive characters. The characters who learn a lot about things. Vivi learns about the world and how it really is; Red pretty much the same, but elements about his race, father, the planet; Wakka is arguably the most naive in FFX, but the same could be said for everyone in it since they all find out "omg the cycle of Sin can be averted and omg we killed Yunalesca and omg ancient war and omg Al Behd aren't so bad after all."
The characters all are very identifiable. I loved FF12 because they didn't follow these patterns the same. Vaan, Ashe, and Penelo are the naive characters. Basch, Balthier, and Fran are not. Vaan isn't overly colorful (save for minorly at the beginning), but the story shifts around all the characters at some point in time or another (except for Penelo -- so close though!) where they all get their lime-light. It was similar to FF6 in that regard that at first it's Terra, then Locke, then Sabin, then Terra/Banon, then Locke/Edgar, then ... Do I need to go on? Seriously, each character had some time in the spotlight! Even Mog got a pretty nice cameo at the beginning (and at the Esper in Narshe later, right? Can't remember).
That's my point. Trends of characters.
And yes, Zidane was a vibrant character compared to Cloud. But you have to keep in mind the things go on with the characters. Cloud and Zidane are basically kind of womanizers. Cloud less obviously so, but when you're given responses in the game for him, they're always along the lines of "How did you sleep last night? >Next to Tifa, who wouldn't sleep great!!??" (totally true, by the way, I wouldn't even need pillows) His attitude is very "just pay me and I'll do what I need to." Zidane always looked out for his brothers, but in the same way, Cloud was a part of AVALANCHE. When the people die in Sector 7, he's trying to ease them "Hey, take it easy, don't say anything more." "I thought you weren't so soft, Cloud..." Cloud is the equivalent of Zidane before he joined Tantalus. Character design-wise, look at the drawings of Zidane and Cloud that Amano did side-by-side. They look really similar. Look at Tidus mixed in there. Now you should be kind of saying "WTF" because from a very non-artsy/unappreciative-of-Amano-viewpoint, they look more or less the same with different clothes and sometimes one guy may have more gel in his hair. That's about it. (Do I need to also mention that all three of those lead characters are not related to anyone else in their world; Cloud = Special type of Soldier who got more Mako; Zidane = Not from Gaia; Tidus = Don't make me spoil the HAPPY ENDING IN FFX for anyone who hasn't played it)
Keep in mind that the Cloud you play for more than half of the game isn't really Cloud, per se. Also, keep in mind that Cloud and Zidane are pretty much polar opposites personality wise.
Cloud = Special type of Soldier who got more Mako
Wut? Uh, how long ago did you play FFVII?
Shadowtext
120
Terin--you're confusing character archetypes with the characters themselves. Don't.
There's a huge difference between Bugs Bunny and Screwball Squirrel even though they're both funny animal Trickster Heroes (or at least, Trickster Protagonists), because of how the characters are performed and treated. I don't care if there's an outsider gimmick and amnesia in all three characters' pasts, you're making a huge leap if you're going to say that Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Tidus are the same character. Cloud and Squall you could get away with maybe--they've got a lot of similarities. Even then, though, Cloud's an angsty loner, but Squall seems like he might genuinely be depressive and autism-spectrum. Probably has Asperger's. Like an angsty Napoleon Dynamite. If he lived in this world he'd totally be a hikkikomori.
Even with archetypes, though, Zidane and the others aren't the same. Zidane is a Trickster Hero, and probably the only one who's been the protagonist in a main Final Fantasy game to date, unless you count Balthier as the true lead of Final Fantasy XII, which would be totally understandable because Balthier is awesome.
In fact, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that Zidane's based on Sun Wukong / Son Goku, the Monkey King from Journey to the West. The monkey tail makes it pretty obvious, and the dude's bloody huge in asian folklore.
There's a huge difference between Bugs Bunny and Screwball Squirrel even though they're both funny animal Trickster Heroes (or at least, Trickster Protagonists), because of how the characters are performed and treated. I don't care if there's an outsider gimmick and amnesia in all three characters' pasts, you're making a huge leap if you're going to say that Cloud, Squall, Zidane and Tidus are the same character. Cloud and Squall you could get away with maybe--they've got a lot of similarities. Even then, though, Cloud's an angsty loner, but Squall seems like he might genuinely be depressive and autism-spectrum. Probably has Asperger's. Like an angsty Napoleon Dynamite. If he lived in this world he'd totally be a hikkikomori.
Even with archetypes, though, Zidane and the others aren't the same. Zidane is a Trickster Hero, and probably the only one who's been the protagonist in a main Final Fantasy game to date, unless you count Balthier as the true lead of Final Fantasy XII, which would be totally understandable because Balthier is awesome.
In fact, I'd say it's a pretty safe bet that Zidane's based on Sun Wukong / Son Goku, the Monkey King from Journey to the West. The monkey tail makes it pretty obvious, and the dude's bloody huge in asian folklore.
Well, I was about to type up a response but it would be pretty much what ShadowText said. The "similarities" you describe are present in almost any type of "story" whether its literature or video game. I still do not see the blatant similarities between the two games other than incredibly vague plot devices that, again, are constantly used over in so many different mediums.
To the person whom I don't remember, I also don't see how that game was a "failure" in which FFX "saved."
To the person whom I don't remember, I also don't see how that game was a "failure" in which FFX "saved."
demondestiny
889
author=Darken link=topic=1262.msg21674#msg21674 date=1214411528
FF8's soundtrack was probably the best. Balamb Garden is now playing in your head, manually.
Yeah, i love all of the soundtracks to the final fantasy games with FFXII being my favourite only because it's composed by Hitoshi Sakimoto. The music to Crisis Core was quite good as well. Made the battles even better.
