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NEED ANSWERS TO MAKE A GOOD TRADITIONAL RPG GAME (NOT NECESSARILY ASKING HOW TO MAKE A GOOD TRADITIONAL RPG)
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KhaliCanvas Studios
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CloseUsed the rpg maker for so long and never made an rpg. But now I am itching to make one. Some of you might like to subscribe because I may have more questions for you in the future.
For ease of use you can just answer 'yes to 2 & 4' and 'no to 1 and 3'
Are you like me while playing rpgs:
1. Almost never use buffs or debuffs, unless it gives me a godlike advantage
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
EDIT: There are more questions on the second page.
For ease of use you can just answer 'yes to 2 & 4' and 'no to 1 and 3'
Are you like me while playing rpgs:
1. Almost never use buffs or debuffs, unless it gives me a godlike advantage
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
EDIT: There are more questions on the second page.
Mr_Detective
60
1. Not a big fan of using them.
2. I do use defense, often if the boss is way stronger, and I need to fill up my special attack energy.
3. You mean recovery items ? Yeah.
4. Yup.
5. Nah.
6. Nope.
:)
2. I do use defense, often if the boss is way stronger, and I need to fill up my special attack energy.
3. You mean recovery items ? Yeah.
4. Yup.
5. Nah.
6. Nope.
:)
1. As long as they work on most monsters most of the time I use them.
2. Uhhhh... what's this got to do with Traditional RPGs?
3. I like to make them either multi-restore (+small amounts of HP) or hit more than one character. Most of the cases more than one character is inflicted at a time. End of battle status removal is good too.
4. Most of the time as long as battles are fairly quick and easy to get through. And not boring as all hell.
5. Like, what? Walk speed? Make that shit not slow as, well, shit. If you mean like a fast-forward option, not necessary if the game plays decent spee.
6. As long as it has a decent hit rate on normal enemies that's fine. I mean, you could add some enemies with resistances but at least let it do some damage if it misses so it's not a wasted skill.
When it comes to skills/spells/magic let them actually hit the enemies. There's nothing worse than using a skill, losing MP and a turn and then not hitting the fucking enemy at all. If you do want to make a high-risk skill, make sure it does enough to equal out needing to use the damn thing. So, if a death spell, make sure it hits most of the time, or make it multi-target with a lower hit chance. Below 40% is ridiculous for the multi-target option. Between 60-80% is fine for a one-target hit.
Remember you want them to use the spells so make them useful. If you have a boss, maybe let some status affects hit. A strong mage - allow them to be blinded or sap MP or even mute, but make it so that they can cure themselves of the condition or a minion will or even that it wears off faster than a normal mute would or that some spells will be immune to being muted and still pass through. Make them useful or nix them.
And the best advice - DO NOT USE THE PARALYSIS STATUS.
It's the cheapest ass shit fucking status in the world and I declare a site-wide ban on the default version of the status. If you want a Paralysis effect change it so you can't get raped by status lock. Ain't no-one have fun with that..
2. Uhhhh... what's this got to do with Traditional RPGs?
3. I like to make them either multi-restore (+small amounts of HP) or hit more than one character. Most of the cases more than one character is inflicted at a time. End of battle status removal is good too.
4. Most of the time as long as battles are fairly quick and easy to get through. And not boring as all hell.
5. Like, what? Walk speed? Make that shit not slow as, well, shit. If you mean like a fast-forward option, not necessary if the game plays decent spee.
6. As long as it has a decent hit rate on normal enemies that's fine. I mean, you could add some enemies with resistances but at least let it do some damage if it misses so it's not a wasted skill.
When it comes to skills/spells/magic let them actually hit the enemies. There's nothing worse than using a skill, losing MP and a turn and then not hitting the fucking enemy at all. If you do want to make a high-risk skill, make sure it does enough to equal out needing to use the damn thing. So, if a death spell, make sure it hits most of the time, or make it multi-target with a lower hit chance. Below 40% is ridiculous for the multi-target option. Between 60-80% is fine for a one-target hit.
Remember you want them to use the spells so make them useful. If you have a boss, maybe let some status affects hit. A strong mage - allow them to be blinded or sap MP or even mute, but make it so that they can cure themselves of the condition or a minion will or even that it wears off faster than a normal mute would or that some spells will be immune to being muted and still pass through. Make them useful or nix them.
And the best advice - DO NOT USE THE PARALYSIS STATUS.
It's the cheapest ass shit fucking status in the world and I declare a site-wide ban on the default version of the status. If you want a Paralysis effect change it so you can't get raped by status lock. Ain't no-one have fun with that..
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
1. and 2.: Depends on difficulty. If the skill isn't needed to win, I won't use it unless it helps me win faster, or helps me save up resources for the future (0 mp cost skills, or stealing).
3.: If the status effect is threatening, I'll heal it ASAP, because, you know, I could die otherwise. If the enemy I'm fighting is relatively nonthreatening, I'll sometimes heal the status effect in battle just to avoid having to open the menu between battles. If the status effect is mostly harmless but the enemy is dealing solid damage, then obviously I'm not going to heal it!
4.: In most RPGs, I try to actively avoid battles that give experience points, because otherwise the game becomes absurdly easy and not worth playing. However, skinner box reward systems like poaching enemy parts to synthesize into new equipment make me feel like I'm missing out on content by doing this, so it tears me in two. (I had to play FF12 twice to feel like I'd experienced the whole game, because if you do the optional stuff, the required stuff becomes so easy that it feels like you're skipping it.)
5.: If an RPG or strategy game has an option to turn off attack animations, I will turn off attack animations. If it has an option for faster movement speed or text speed, I will turn that on. Sometimes I actually wait five or more years to play games just so someone will invent an emulator and I can play at double speed.
6.: No, definitely not, not if it costs me potential. Speed is good, of course, but only to the point where I know it's not going to hurt me later. I will hoard everything that's in any way limited, in case I need it later. And then if I do need it later, I'll still try as hard as I can not to use it, because what if even later I need it even more.
3.: If the status effect is threatening, I'll heal it ASAP, because, you know, I could die otherwise. If the enemy I'm fighting is relatively nonthreatening, I'll sometimes heal the status effect in battle just to avoid having to open the menu between battles. If the status effect is mostly harmless but the enemy is dealing solid damage, then obviously I'm not going to heal it!
4.: In most RPGs, I try to actively avoid battles that give experience points, because otherwise the game becomes absurdly easy and not worth playing. However, skinner box reward systems like poaching enemy parts to synthesize into new equipment make me feel like I'm missing out on content by doing this, so it tears me in two. (I had to play FF12 twice to feel like I'd experienced the whole game, because if you do the optional stuff, the required stuff becomes so easy that it feels like you're skipping it.)
5.: If an RPG or strategy game has an option to turn off attack animations, I will turn off attack animations. If it has an option for faster movement speed or text speed, I will turn that on. Sometimes I actually wait five or more years to play games just so someone will invent an emulator and I can play at double speed.
6.: No, definitely not, not if it costs me potential. Speed is good, of course, but only to the point where I know it's not going to hurt me later. I will hoard everything that's in any way limited, in case I need it later. And then if I do need it later, I'll still try as hard as I can not to use it, because what if even later I need it even more.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The hoarding? I dunno. Despite (or maybe because of) the fact that I play like that, I actually enjoy games where I do need to use the limited resources intelligently, instead of ending the game with 50 red essences and 99 megalixirs. Fire Emblem is immensely satisfying, for example. (You have too many games though, so I wouldn't even know which ones to (not?) play. Mail me the name of the one you think I'll hate most, haw haw. I enjoy suffering and will probably beat it.)
author=SaitenHazard
Are you like me while playing rpgs:
1. Almost never use buffs or debuffs, unless it gives me a godlike advantage
- yea; or unless the effect is obvious.
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
- yea
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
- yea, except if the status inflicts damage.
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
- YES.
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
- YES.
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
- No
Haha, i cant believe so many ppl do these things too. XD
Milennin
2060
1. I use them, as long as they are worth using.
2. See above.
3. I use these a lot, unless conditions don't matter.
4. Depends on how long battles take.
5. Depends on the game. If it looks good enough, I prefer watching the animations.
6. Usually no.
2. See above.
3. I use these a lot, unless conditions don't matter.
4. Depends on how long battles take.
5. Depends on the game. If it looks good enough, I prefer watching the animations.
6. Usually no.
1. Against Bosses I do.
2. Actually yes, if the enemy has some sort of charge attack I know is coming. Or if I'm low on HP and need to make sure I survive to be healed.
3. It depends on he effect really.
4. Oh yeah. If you meat the Buddha in a Random Encounter kill him.
5. Not really unless I'm grinding. Or playing Pokemon.
6. If it's cost efficient and/or there's a reliable way to get SP back, then yes.
2. Actually yes, if the enemy has some sort of charge attack I know is coming. Or if I'm low on HP and need to make sure I survive to be healed.
3. It depends on he effect really.
4. Oh yeah. If you meat the Buddha in a Random Encounter kill him.
5. Not really unless I'm grinding. Or playing Pokemon.
6. If it's cost efficient and/or there's a reliable way to get SP back, then yes.
Okay, here we go...
1. Almost never use buffs or debuffs, unless it gives me a godlike advantage
I used to not care much for buff and debuff spells while playing certain older RPGs that didn't really require strategy beyond using the right elemental magic. However, after playing games in the Megaten series, as well as other, more modern games, I've seen buffs and debuffs used very effectively to add another element of strategy, so I use them often.
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
In most RPGs, I typically only use the defense option during boss fights whenever one of my characters is about to die and is waiting for a heal. Some RPGs give rewards for defense, such as more points in a stat or a built-up meter, so that's worth considering.
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
Yes, I'm the typical 'hoarder' type player; even common items such as potions I am loathe to use, because it feels like I am dipping into my emergency supplies whenever I do. Of course, it might actually make more sense to use them under certain circumstances rather than waste my spellcaster's precious MP, especially if the game makes MP recovery items rare.
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
I typically do this, and it's a sign of good game design if it works. Nothing is more tedious than having to grind for levels, especially in a game that isn't even an MMO. Of course, this is only possible with some calculations and a great deal of playtesting, but it's worth doing nonetheless.
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
I always used the 'Sprint Shoes' in Final Fantasy VI, and I really dislike slow walk speeds. Slow speeds are irritating at the best of times, but the frustration can be further exacerbated by over-large areas and a high encounter rate.
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
For regular, bog standard enemies, I typically just use the basic attack, or use the autobattle if the game has one. For enemies that require magic, I typically use spells that hit all enemies, in an attempt to get things over with quickly. Ideally, in my opinion, game designers should strive to keep encounters interesting by mixing things up, while simultaneously keeping the number of enemies a player faces to a minimum. You don't want to bore the player, but you also don't want to make every encounter as challenging as a boss fight (well, maybe you do in your game, but not in a typical RPG with random encounters).
As a final thought, I recommend you check out The Brothers Duomazov's review of Astralius for the TurboGrafx-16. Astralius is a very old-fashioned RPG that the reviewer claims to do pretty much everything wrong, going against pretty much everything people have suggested you do in this thread:
http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2010/01/astralius.html
Check it out and, I guess, don't do what Astralius did.
1. Almost never use buffs or debuffs, unless it gives me a godlike advantage
I used to not care much for buff and debuff spells while playing certain older RPGs that didn't really require strategy beyond using the right elemental magic. However, after playing games in the Megaten series, as well as other, more modern games, I've seen buffs and debuffs used very effectively to add another element of strategy, so I use them often.
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
In most RPGs, I typically only use the defense option during boss fights whenever one of my characters is about to die and is waiting for a heal. Some RPGs give rewards for defense, such as more points in a stat or a built-up meter, so that's worth considering.
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
Yes, I'm the typical 'hoarder' type player; even common items such as potions I am loathe to use, because it feels like I am dipping into my emergency supplies whenever I do. Of course, it might actually make more sense to use them under certain circumstances rather than waste my spellcaster's precious MP, especially if the game makes MP recovery items rare.
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
I typically do this, and it's a sign of good game design if it works. Nothing is more tedious than having to grind for levels, especially in a game that isn't even an MMO. Of course, this is only possible with some calculations and a great deal of playtesting, but it's worth doing nonetheless.
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
I always used the 'Sprint Shoes' in Final Fantasy VI, and I really dislike slow walk speeds. Slow speeds are irritating at the best of times, but the frustration can be further exacerbated by over-large areas and a high encounter rate.
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
For regular, bog standard enemies, I typically just use the basic attack, or use the autobattle if the game has one. For enemies that require magic, I typically use spells that hit all enemies, in an attempt to get things over with quickly. Ideally, in my opinion, game designers should strive to keep encounters interesting by mixing things up, while simultaneously keeping the number of enemies a player faces to a minimum. You don't want to bore the player, but you also don't want to make every encounter as challenging as a boss fight (well, maybe you do in your game, but not in a typical RPG with random encounters).
As a final thought, I recommend you check out The Brothers Duomazov's review of Astralius for the TurboGrafx-16. Astralius is a very old-fashioned RPG that the reviewer claims to do pretty much everything wrong, going against pretty much everything people have suggested you do in this thread:
http://www.thebrothersduomazov.com/2010/01/astralius.html
Check it out and, I guess, don't do what Astralius did.
the problem with this topic is that you're asking about random shit that you think of when you think of "lolarrpeegee".
this is a cat in a box. you are the cat. the cat is in a box. therefore, you are in a box. this box is also a metaphorical representation of the trap that you are in.
i am going to remind you of several games now:
surprisingly i don't feel like being long-winded and patronizing today, so instead I'm just going to flat-out tell you the questions you should be asking. Also, you don't want to make a traditional RPG, you want to make a simple RPG. Dragon Quest I sucks now, yo'. Do you wanna date the girl your age or the geriatric? (Or guy. Whatever. Going off of statistics, here.)
All of the games i provided screenshots of are "traditional RPGS." They were on the NES/SNES, after all! And yet they're pretty far from Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy. Your terminology for what I believe you desire is flawed！！
okay here are the new questions
you might notice that these questions are geared toward you
hint hint
this is a cat in a box. you are the cat. the cat is in a box. therefore, you are in a box. this box is also a metaphorical representation of the trap that you are in.
i am going to remind you of several games now:
surprisingly i don't feel like being long-winded and patronizing today, so instead I'm just going to flat-out tell you the questions you should be asking. Also, you don't want to make a traditional RPG, you want to make a simple RPG. Dragon Quest I sucks now, yo'. Do you wanna date the girl your age or the geriatric? (Or guy. Whatever. Going off of statistics, here.)
All of the games i provided screenshots of are "traditional RPGS." They were on the NES/SNES, after all! And yet they're pretty far from Dragon Quest/Final Fantasy. Your terminology for what I believe you desire is flawed！！
okay here are the new questions
- Why do some RPGs have buffs, debuffs and status ailments? How can I simplify them, or remove them altogether, to create an experience that is easy to understand while deepening gameplay?
- Why do some RPGs have a "Defend" command? How can I change it to make it a more interesting gameplay mechanic? Could I remove it? What are the pros and cons?
- Am I going for the long-term attrition method, or a linear rampage? How will this affect ailment recovery, skill resource recovery, and how can I make this both obvious and engaging for the player?
- Do I enjoy grinding? Do I expect my players to enjoy grinding? Are there methods I could employ to hide it, or do I want to keep it open? What would grinding provide for the player, and for the game?
- What is an experience level?
- What is a hit point? A mana point?
- Death spells are stupid unless they are conditional because why not just cast Agilao?
you might notice that these questions are geared toward you
hint hint
Craze brings up a good point about mechanics, namely that antiquated mechanics should not simply be accepted because they are/were the norm for the genre. As a designer, your understanding of the game's mechanics has to be significantly ahead of the player's, as you otherwise run the risk of creating an imbalanced and flawed game.
There are many different ways to make a game (duh); Dragon Quest may be 'bad' by today's standards, but for the time it was a great game, and everything about it more or less works just fine. The designers knew what they were going for, and how they were going to accomplish their goal. Today, game designers have far more options, which means there is no reason to stick to doing things 'the old fashioned way'.
One relevant example that immediately comes to mind is Pier Solar, an independent RPG designed to commemorate the 20th Anniversary of the Gensis/Megadrive. The game is very professional, but it left some wondering why the mechanics of the game were in line with the visuals and presentation, instead of being updated to more contemporary game standards. Check out this review of the game for a more detailed analysis of RPG conventions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N6DUOeLhr0#t=51m29s
So, in short, think about how the mechanics fit together, and if there are other (and better) ways to accomplish the same things in your game. If you want to make a game just like Dragon Quest, hey, great! Just make sure the mechanics work so that the game is fun to play.
There are many different ways to make a game (duh); Dragon Quest may be 'bad' by today's standards, but for the time it was a great game, and everything about it more or less works just fine. The designers knew what they were going for, and how they were going to accomplish their goal. Today, game designers have far more options, which means there is no reason to stick to doing things 'the old fashioned way'.
One relevant example that immediately comes to mind is Pier Solar, an independent RPG designed to commemorate the 20th Anniversary of the Gensis/Megadrive. The game is very professional, but it left some wondering why the mechanics of the game were in line with the visuals and presentation, instead of being updated to more contemporary game standards. Check out this review of the game for a more detailed analysis of RPG conventions.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0N6DUOeLhr0#t=51m29s
So, in short, think about how the mechanics fit together, and if there are other (and better) ways to accomplish the same things in your game. If you want to make a game just like Dragon Quest, hey, great! Just make sure the mechanics work so that the game is fun to play.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
What you were looking for was an incomplete picture, though. That was the point.
Obviously you're asking these questions to help you make specific decisions about the way you're making your game. But the questions themselves strongly imply that you feel a certain way about these aspects of the game. And you should be examining why you feel that way and what you can do to your game to address those feelings. Not just asking people if they mind when games fail to handle them. Obviously they mind, unless something else in the game alters how those things work to address the problem. Look at games that addressed these problems, figure out what they did, figure out what other problems in the games were caused as side-effects of addressing those problems. Look at games that didn't address these problems, figure out why they didn't, figure out what other aspects of the game prevented them from being able or wanting to do so.
Obviously you're asking these questions to help you make specific decisions about the way you're making your game. But the questions themselves strongly imply that you feel a certain way about these aspects of the game. And you should be examining why you feel that way and what you can do to your game to address those feelings. Not just asking people if they mind when games fail to handle them. Obviously they mind, unless something else in the game alters how those things work to address the problem. Look at games that addressed these problems, figure out what they did, figure out what other problems in the games were caused as side-effects of addressing those problems. Look at games that didn't address these problems, figure out why they didn't, figure out what other aspects of the game prevented them from being able or wanting to do so.
Craze was actually rather tamer than he usually is and offered some pretty good advice on top of it. I don't want the thread to be derailed, but please don't attack other people for their legitimate replies and opinions.
Your first time as far as I can tell, so we'll forgo the warn this time, but don't do it again. One chance. Don't waste it.
On the other hand, Craze, Saiten was asking how people play games, not really talking about how to make a traditional game. Topic heading should probably be changed to reflect that since it does allude to actually wanting input on how to make a good traditional RPG.
Your first time as far as I can tell, so we'll forgo the warn this time, but don't do it again. One chance. Don't waste it.
On the other hand, Craze, Saiten was asking how people play games, not really talking about how to make a traditional game. Topic heading should probably be changed to reflect that since it does allude to actually wanting input on how to make a good traditional RPG.
Yeah, Craze wasn't attacking you, he was just being bluntly honest. Blunt honesty can by its nature be abrasive, but I'd much rather people be honest with their criticism than sugar-coating their thoughts.
Dyhalto
7536
1. Almost never use buffs or debuffs, unless it gives me a godlike advantage
When they're practical, they get used. In Phantasy Star 2, buffs are indispensable to party survival. In almost everything else, they're novelty. Even if it buffs your character's stat by an appreciable amount, when does it wear off? 3 turns? Forget it.
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
In Legend of Dragoon, defending restored 10% of your HP. This made me spam it, but it's a poor ass way to impose it on your player. Same issue with 7th Saga and the Defend-Attack combo. In FF6, I defended to wait a turn (until I discovered the Y-button's function).
So basically, no, I never use it because it's useless. I would rather have the character do something useful and pray things work out.
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
Poison, Curse, and even one paralyzed party member can wait. Otherwise... so yeah, I never use them except in a bind.
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
I always kill everything I meet, though I don't mind a little grinding.
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
I love frameskip... if it's available.
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
When I fight a non-boss and know it's going to take longer than 2 rounds, I generally use a powerful skill to soften the little guys up and Fight the rest of their HP away. Party members take turns using their respective skills so I can evenly distribute the SP use.
When they're practical, they get used. In Phantasy Star 2, buffs are indispensable to party survival. In almost everything else, they're novelty. Even if it buffs your character's stat by an appreciable amount, when does it wear off? 3 turns? Forget it.
2. Never use any kind of defense option, exception 'active guard' in dbz attack of the saiyans
In Legend of Dragoon, defending restored 10% of your HP. This made me spam it, but it's a poor ass way to impose it on your player. Same issue with 7th Saga and the Defend-Attack combo. In FF6, I defended to wait a turn (until I discovered the Y-button's function).
So basically, no, I never use it because it's useless. I would rather have the character do something useful and pray things work out.
3. Never use status recovery options unless in a boss fight or in a bind
Poison, Curse, and even one paralyzed party member can wait. Otherwise... so yeah, I never use them except in a bind.
4. Slay everything that engages me in battle so that later on I don't get stuck and have to intentionally grind
I always kill everything I meet, though I don't mind a little grinding.
5. Speed up the game if possible, for example vba and pokemon
I love frameskip... if it's available.
6. Try to one hit KO opponents regardless of the requirements, for example use up lots of SP
When I fight a non-boss and know it's going to take longer than 2 rounds, I generally use a powerful skill to soften the little guys up and Fight the rest of their HP away. Party members take turns using their respective skills so I can evenly distribute the SP use.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=LibertyWell, this is the game design forum, not the video games forum, so the strong implication is that the reason he's asking is to help inform his game's design. I mean, he didn't actually say that, but if it's not true then he used the wrong subforum.
On the other hand, Craze, Saiten was asking how people play games, not really talking about how to make a traditional game. Topic heading should probably be changed to reflect that since it does allude to actually wanting input on how to make a good traditional RPG.
I don't think the questions are bad. They're worth asking. People's answers to them just don't paint a very complete picture, since they really amount more to "have you played any games that didn't have these problems" than "do you think these things are problems."
Like, in UOSSMUD and Kingdom of Loathing and WoW and FF12, I stack as many buffs as possible, because they can be cast outside of combat and last for multiple battles. So the reason why my answer to number 1 is "no" is because I've played games which subvert the typical mostly-useless-except-on-bosses style of buffs and debuffs.
to play 30% of devil's advocate on lockez's post above, it really is okay if you don't use buffs/debuffs every fight. really. (depending on the game, that is. in ffxiii, for example, every battle is a longer-than-normal affair in a linear rampage of exponentially scaling difficulty -- it's not random encounters, is what i'm saying. also, like in ffxii, buffs/debuffs can be applied automagically via team members/gambits, which vastly improves ease of use)
an interesting example of buff/debuff usage outside of FF is the tactical/front-view turn based mash-up series Devil Survivor. (DS2 >>>> DS1 if you decide to play it based on the next sentence, for some reason (but you should go play DS2 right now please)). Every human character can equip an autoskill, many of which are buffs or debuffs much like Tarukaja/Tarunda/etc. in mainline/second-gen persona/dds SMT games. Thing is, they occur at the start of battle -- if Keita has Weaken equipped, and if he has enough MP remaining, he automatically casts it at the start of battle to lower enemy defenses 25%. There are no "active" slots that deal with buffs/debuffs! (They do have area ailment abilities, though. Hinako with Sexy Gaze and Grimoire (a passive that raises ailment success) is hilarious, even against some of the biggest bosses, haha.)
</epic tangent>
actually i guess it fits if I say "i like buffs, what's really cool is if you don't have to waste your time actually casting them"
an interesting example of buff/debuff usage outside of FF is the tactical/front-view turn based mash-up series Devil Survivor. (DS2 >>>> DS1 if you decide to play it based on the next sentence, for some reason (but you should go play DS2 right now please)). Every human character can equip an autoskill, many of which are buffs or debuffs much like Tarukaja/Tarunda/etc. in mainline/second-gen persona/dds SMT games. Thing is, they occur at the start of battle -- if Keita has Weaken equipped, and if he has enough MP remaining, he automatically casts it at the start of battle to lower enemy defenses 25%. There are no "active" slots that deal with buffs/debuffs! (They do have area ailment abilities, though. Hinako with Sexy Gaze and Grimoire (a passive that raises ailment success) is hilarious, even against some of the biggest bosses, haha.)
</epic tangent>
actually i guess it fits if I say "i like buffs, what's really cool is if you don't have to waste your time actually casting them"
