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WHY DOES GREAT LOOKING INDIE GAMES GET CANCELLED?
Posts
Emirpoen
1746
Emirpoen
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Closeauthor=kory_toombs
Perhaps what the person wanted to do in the game is too
difficult to do.
I see a lot of cancelled games. And some are using old RPG Makers.
Some people decide to upgrade to something more easy to use than
RPG Maker 2003 for example.
My policy. I don't post the game page until the game is completed
and the download is ready. That way no one can be
disappointed - unless they're disappointed because the game totally
sucks :)
Full game is overkill. You're better off at least releasing a demo to get some feedback.
author=kory_toombs
My policy. I don't post the game page until the game is completed
and the download is ready. That way no one can be
disappointed - unless they're disappointed because the game totally
sucks :)
That's exactly the problem though. They've got a game design together, and they're like "alright! This game is gonna be so awesome." So they post, thinking it'll be easy to finish.
Look, dammit. Forget the complete game concept. Most people prefer a fucking DEMO to advertising a great game and never delivering. You can keep posting updates to the demo, hopefully, drawing ever closer to completed. If not, well, what you had was great.
Or you can be like "This is my idea for the game! Isn't it sweet?" Oh yes, fans think so. Until you haven't even 20 minutes of play time after five years (because "it's not complete yet" and never will be because you've got perfectionist issues), and people give up on your game.
The one that's all like heavy emphasis on deciding what to cut? (The one brought up on the enough is enough thread)
Not so sure.
That's great for finishing the game. But what this is really about is getting one's shit together and actually starting. Why does this matter? Well, trying to cut things before you have a game's essential core established means you often don't even have a clear vision of the game yet, and deciding to cut this or that means you're probably cluelessly wrong, and might end up cutting something (like the plot, or a unique system) that was the main selling point of the game.
At the start, it's important simply to release a WIP demo with 30 min or more of gameplay. Then a month or so later, 2 hours. Then 5 hours, later. Then sooner or later, yes, you do reach the cut point where you say "Is 10 hours okay? Can I cut it down to 5? Or do I go all daring and risky with my clients and aim for a 40+ game? (No.) Or do I go crazy and aim for Dragon Warrior 7? (NOOOOOOO...)"
Not so sure.
That's great for finishing the game. But what this is really about is getting one's shit together and actually starting. Why does this matter? Well, trying to cut things before you have a game's essential core established means you often don't even have a clear vision of the game yet, and deciding to cut this or that means you're probably cluelessly wrong, and might end up cutting something (like the plot, or a unique system) that was the main selling point of the game.
At the start, it's important simply to release a WIP demo with 30 min or more of gameplay. Then a month or so later, 2 hours. Then 5 hours, later. Then sooner or later, yes, you do reach the cut point where you say "Is 10 hours okay? Can I cut it down to 5? Or do I go all daring and risky with my clients and aim for a 40+ game? (No.) Or do I go crazy and aim for Dragon Warrior 7? (NOOOOOOO...)"
ubon
66
author=bulmabriefs144
The one that's all like heavy emphasis on deciding what to cut?
confirmed for not having read the article at all
At least having a demo is something, but just images and
description don't really tell me much (even if what they
planned is possible to do.)
Submitting a game page and never submitting a download
(even a demo) seems sort of pointless.
But I think a demo is only useful if your game is going to be
an epic game, perhaps like 30 hours or something.
I just think if your going to submit a game page that
you should commit yourself to actually finishing the game,
if not have finished the game already or are getting close.
MarkusT
2
In some cases the people commenting or that come along and say something.. or do something to upset the person working on the game, they could be very emotional people, and because of that one jerk who comes along and says something to set off the creator and tick them off, the game get's canned and they move on and find something else to do.
It happens some times, I know of a few accounts where such a thing happen.
A lot of people in the world just lack compassion and understanding, they come along.. say some crap.. and next thing you know, said game is canned.. and they just move on and stop working on the game.
They feel it's not appreciated.
In fact.. this happen to me once before...
The game I have going right now, I was using RMXP at the time, and a lot of jerks had nothing but negativity.. so i canned the game.... years later I picked up RMVX Ace and went "damn this would be perfect for that game I was working on"
So i went back to it...
The point is... all it takes is some jerk coming along... and it effects someone so badly.. they quit.
It happens some times, I know of a few accounts where such a thing happen.
A lot of people in the world just lack compassion and understanding, they come along.. say some crap.. and next thing you know, said game is canned.. and they just move on and stop working on the game.
They feel it's not appreciated.
In fact.. this happen to me once before...
The game I have going right now, I was using RMXP at the time, and a lot of jerks had nothing but negativity.. so i canned the game.... years later I picked up RMVX Ace and went "damn this would be perfect for that game I was working on"
So i went back to it...
The point is... all it takes is some jerk coming along... and it effects someone so badly.. they quit.
ubon
66
let's be honest here: if the creator is so psychologically fragile that a single rude comment makes them drop a project entirely, it was never going to be finished in the first place. you need a thick skin in a business like this, and you need to know when to pick your battles. trolls make for an easy scapegoat when you need to bail on something fast.
MarkusT
2
author=mawkThis is why we now have people campaigning against bullying.. the world has a LOT of fragile people and even more people with a lack of understanding and compassion, and something great could have come about if not for people that basically bully.
let's be honest here: if the creator is so psychologically fragile that a single rude comment makes them drop a project entirely, it was never going to be finished in the first place. you need a thick skin in a business like this, and you need to know when to pick your battles. trolls make for an easy scapegoat when you need to bail on something fast.
And in my case, it was not a scape goat, I just really got sick of the crap from people.
The negativity outweighed the positivity.
In the case of this project youngmreezy mentioned, it might have been the fact that the characters and such were copy-write of Nintendo and Square and so forth... Nintendo might have come down on them for sure somewhere in background unseen to people, so they had to stop working on it.
Nintendo is VERY protective of their properties.
ubon
66
you didn't even read my post, did you?
here's the thing that not a lot of people seem to get: you are not your project. if someone insults something you're working on, they're not insulting you directly. it's your responsibility as a creator to keep that in mind and avoid projecting your own feelings onto your project, so that you can face up to harsh criticism and dig out whatever nuggets of truth are inside.
e: agh, you quoted me before I cut all the useless stuff out. oh well.
here's the thing that not a lot of people seem to get: you are not your project. if someone insults something you're working on, they're not insulting you directly. it's your responsibility as a creator to keep that in mind and avoid projecting your own feelings onto your project, so that you can face up to harsh criticism and dig out whatever nuggets of truth are inside.
e: agh, you quoted me before I cut all the useless stuff out. oh well.
MarkusT
2
author=mawk
you didn't even read my post, did you?
show me someone who cancels their project due to "bullying" and nine times in ten I'll show you someone who received perfectly fine criticism but couldn't handle the idea that they'd have to make changes, or didn't think the tone was reverent enough for their magnum opus. all forms of abuse are wrong and people have the right to distance themselves from situations that are harmful to them, but you're never going to convince me that every time someone in the rm community says they've been bullied that's actually what's going on.
I've seen what the criticism here is like, thank you very much, and I'd frankly call it too gentle a lot of the time.
here's the thing that not a lot of people seem to get: you are not yoru project. if someone insults something you're working on, they're not insulting you directly. it's your responsibility as a creator to keep that in mind and avoid projecting your own feelings onto your project, so that you can face up to harsh criticism and dig out whatever nuggets of truth are inside.
No no, I read it.. and I never said it's always the case.
But just some times, and some people.
Also I am not trying to convince you of jack squat.
Believe what you want.
I just felt like commenting and putting my thoughts into this discussion.
ubon
66
exactly, and being involved in a discussion means that people will engage with your points and offer rebuttals. you need to be prepared to expand on and defend the points you make, or else you aren't discussing -- you're just tossing words into a room and running away.
MarkusT
2
I can't back it up, for the simple reason that it's mostly stuff that's happen to me, and a few other projects from others that never went far.
And you can sit there and keep going on and on about how your project is not you, but at the end of the day, it's an extension.. and it can make you feel rather shitty, unless you're one of those emotionless types that hardly anything bothers you.. and they do exist.
I keep wanting to point out things you have done wrong with your writing, but I don't.. Why? Cause I respect other people's feelings.
And I don't like upsetting anyone, just like I don't like anyone to upset me.
And for some people, words can cut DEEP.
And you can sit there and keep going on and on about how your project is not you, but at the end of the day, it's an extension.. and it can make you feel rather shitty, unless you're one of those emotionless types that hardly anything bothers you.. and they do exist.
I keep wanting to point out things you have done wrong with your writing, but I don't.. Why? Cause I respect other people's feelings.
And I don't like upsetting anyone, just like I don't like anyone to upset me.
And for some people, words can cut DEEP.
ubon
66
so pick up the pieces and make a game. you're made of sterner stuff than you think, and if you only allow yourself to be what you can be instead of relying on an emotional crutch, you'll surprise even yourself with what you can do.
MarkusT
2
Well I have done a lot.. but I feel like we got this topic WAY off course..
So.. i rather not say much more than I have.
I will say this again though, I think Nintendo came down on who ever was making that one game with the video posted at the beginning of this thread.
So.. i rather not say much more than I have.
I will say this again though, I think Nintendo came down on who ever was making that one game with the video posted at the beginning of this thread.
Shinan
4314
I have to admit that when I think of indie games I tend to think of professional indie games and although I'm pretty sure loads and loads of them get cancelled I think that most people who make those games for a living (or at least as a side-gig for beer money) tend to not release anything until it's almost done.
Then I look at the amateur game making scene where game making is a hobby (more a hobby than the "side gig for beer money" hobby) and oftentimes within these communities and stuff we see games posted that barely have started development. Sometimes the screenshots are just mockups and the game is basically just "an idea I had".
I mean I made one of those gamepages myself. Often these games that look cool are games that "See what I worked on last weekend doesn't it look cool I will totally finish it. But wait now I have to take some extra shifts at work and oh wait I lost interest the game is now cancelled."
Now I think other games get cancelled at about the same point in development but the difference is all about when you reveal you are actually working on a game. The truth is that us amateur gamemaker tend to make those gamepages to see if people are as excited about the project we've worked on over the weekend as we are. And sometimes when there's little to no response it's easier to just leave after having had a week of double work shifts and no game make.
So what I'm saying is that I think that games are cancelled a lot in early development and that the number of games cancelled has more to do with how early a game is revealed than anything else.
Then I look at the amateur game making scene where game making is a hobby (more a hobby than the "side gig for beer money" hobby) and oftentimes within these communities and stuff we see games posted that barely have started development. Sometimes the screenshots are just mockups and the game is basically just "an idea I had".
I mean I made one of those gamepages myself. Often these games that look cool are games that "See what I worked on last weekend doesn't it look cool I will totally finish it. But wait now I have to take some extra shifts at work and oh wait I lost interest the game is now cancelled."
Now I think other games get cancelled at about the same point in development but the difference is all about when you reveal you are actually working on a game. The truth is that us amateur gamemaker tend to make those gamepages to see if people are as excited about the project we've worked on over the weekend as we are. And sometimes when there's little to no response it's easier to just leave after having had a week of double work shifts and no game make.
So what I'm saying is that I think that games are cancelled a lot in early development and that the number of games cancelled has more to do with how early a game is revealed than anything else.
