A DIFFERENT KIND OF POKEMON
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Hey guys, I have been sitting on this for a while, diggin through pokecommunity trying to find something like it and since I found nothing, I thought I'd ask for opinions.
I'd like to make a pokemon game that is, for lack of a better word, realistic. I live the pokemon games, but I feel that in their eagerness to be family friendly, they ae dumbed down and leaves quetions unanswered.
I should say right away I'm not looking to "kill pokemon" or make Christopher Nolan's Pokemon, but I think little hints are made in the cannon games (ex: Machoke Movers in gen 3) that suggest a mythology that otherwise isn't present. For me, environment is one of, if not the nost important parts of a game. If I'm to believe that completely different aninals are found exclusively 100 feet apart, I feel that the environment should reflect that. It's also important to me that the advent of pokemon's abilities being used as tools has a real effect on technologyy and day to day living: would a power plant really exist in a world where electricity is created almost conpletely freely?
Anyway that is my thought process; if I were to make this game I would start with only a few basic changes:
1. Leveling system- In my opinion, the levelling system the games currently use has only two values. Its used to track experience, and rewards with techniques and evolution. The fault, however, is that it is used as a "power level" crutch, and essentially pitts numbers against each other. I have no problem using battle experience to gain abilities and evolution, but concerning stats, I would like to implement a system that keeps enemies at a relative level, forcing the player to use type advantages, conditions, and basically strategy. Gym leaders never made sense to me because they never got better- the entire pokemon league was populated with trainers who beat Brock, butbeither he never learned anything, or he forced his growing pokemon to cobtinually hold back.
A gym-win in this proposed game would consist of not only winning against similarly strengthed pokemon of a certain type, but also trainibg a pokemon of rhat type, and using its type advantages/stats.
2. Graphics- when the new gold/silver games introduced following pokemon, I was very happy. Part of the disbelief in pokemon for me, is the fact that you rarely see pokemon outside of cutaway battles. I, d work towards a game without xutaways altogether, and simply call battles with an HUD. Of course 800+ walking sprites is pretty insane, but that's little to ask in exchange for a boss battle with a Rayquayza, that is actually the size of a building.
3. Quests- In the pokemon games there are sidequests, but most don't really even qualify as sidequests because you must finish them to access somebother pivotal element. Side quests are a must, but I think alternate quest lines wouldvreally make pokemon ten times the game it is. As it is, breeding is an option, but maybe one playthrough youbonly want to breed rare pokemon? Maybe a questline of putting out fires, fightibg team rocket, rangerlike duties? I havent given a lot ofbthought to this part, but like gyms, I feel that the entire map should be accessible from the start.
I haven't started on this, so ideas and criticism are welcome. I am also not opposed to a non-pokemon monster based sandbox game.
Sorry for the gramatical errors, I'm posting from mobile.
I'd like to make a pokemon game that is, for lack of a better word, realistic. I live the pokemon games, but I feel that in their eagerness to be family friendly, they ae dumbed down and leaves quetions unanswered.
I should say right away I'm not looking to "kill pokemon" or make Christopher Nolan's Pokemon, but I think little hints are made in the cannon games (ex: Machoke Movers in gen 3) that suggest a mythology that otherwise isn't present. For me, environment is one of, if not the nost important parts of a game. If I'm to believe that completely different aninals are found exclusively 100 feet apart, I feel that the environment should reflect that. It's also important to me that the advent of pokemon's abilities being used as tools has a real effect on technologyy and day to day living: would a power plant really exist in a world where electricity is created almost conpletely freely?
Anyway that is my thought process; if I were to make this game I would start with only a few basic changes:
1. Leveling system- In my opinion, the levelling system the games currently use has only two values. Its used to track experience, and rewards with techniques and evolution. The fault, however, is that it is used as a "power level" crutch, and essentially pitts numbers against each other. I have no problem using battle experience to gain abilities and evolution, but concerning stats, I would like to implement a system that keeps enemies at a relative level, forcing the player to use type advantages, conditions, and basically strategy. Gym leaders never made sense to me because they never got better- the entire pokemon league was populated with trainers who beat Brock, butbeither he never learned anything, or he forced his growing pokemon to cobtinually hold back.
A gym-win in this proposed game would consist of not only winning against similarly strengthed pokemon of a certain type, but also trainibg a pokemon of rhat type, and using its type advantages/stats.
2. Graphics- when the new gold/silver games introduced following pokemon, I was very happy. Part of the disbelief in pokemon for me, is the fact that you rarely see pokemon outside of cutaway battles. I, d work towards a game without xutaways altogether, and simply call battles with an HUD. Of course 800+ walking sprites is pretty insane, but that's little to ask in exchange for a boss battle with a Rayquayza, that is actually the size of a building.
3. Quests- In the pokemon games there are sidequests, but most don't really even qualify as sidequests because you must finish them to access somebother pivotal element. Side quests are a must, but I think alternate quest lines wouldvreally make pokemon ten times the game it is. As it is, breeding is an option, but maybe one playthrough youbonly want to breed rare pokemon? Maybe a questline of putting out fires, fightibg team rocket, rangerlike duties? I havent given a lot ofbthought to this part, but like gyms, I feel that the entire map should be accessible from the start.
I haven't started on this, so ideas and criticism are welcome. I am also not opposed to a non-pokemon monster based sandbox game.
Sorry for the gramatical errors, I'm posting from mobile.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Removing the focus on powerlevelling to overcome obstacles and instead focusing on getting the right sets of pokemon with the right skills for handling many different scenarios makes perfect sense to me. There are a shitload of pokemon with all kinds of weaknesses and strengths, but they rarely matter in the original games. When they do matter, the strategy is to form a team that can handle any type of enemy, never to pick your team members based on what you're fighting. I can think of a few decent ways to do this:
1) Pokemon only have like 6-12 levels each before they max out. Each level awards a new skill, and the final level sometimes causes evolution. Levels have no other effect.
2) Make enemies level with you; either all of them, or maybe just the trainers (leaving wild pokemon alone).
3) Have the player able and expected to easily reach the max level with a full team of pokemon about 25% of the way through the game. Any new pokemon he brings into his team will need to be trained up to the max level before they're good for much of anything, but training his old ones any higher is impossible.
However, if you remove the ability for the player to have a single team capbale of handling anything, you will need some way for the player to know what pokemon to bring into battle. A way other than fighting each trainer once and dying just to see what pokemon they have. One option would be to show them on the field map before battle starts; another option would be to give the player a limited amount of ability to switch his backup pokemon mid-battle; another option would be to make them use 90% pokemon that can be naturally caught in the surrounding area so that the player can predict what he'll face if he paid attention.
Between the removal of a linear level progression and the addition of sidequests, it seems like you'd do well to make a much more nonlinear type game, even as far as the main plot is concerned. Your idea of making everything accessible from the start is probably good, although "everything" probably shouldn't literally be everything - unlocking stuff by doing other stuff feels good, and you want to have some more linear stuff at the beginning to guide the player.
If the gym leaders are all extremely powerful, for example, then the player could do them in any order. However, you do need less powerful "bosses" during the game besides regular enemy trainers so that the player feels like he's reached milestones. That's the purpose that the lower-powered gym leaders serve in the original games. They give you a feeling of great accomplishment every few hours for having made progress in the game. Moving them all to the end of the game kills that. Maybe you want to simply rewrite the purpose of gym leaders so that their placement in the middle of the game makes more sense? Or maybe you want all the mid-game bosses to all be related to other plot elements?
Edit:
Regarding walking sprites, check out the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games. They have good walking sprites for a ton of pokemon. They're not battle sprites though. The biggest advantage of cutting to a seperate scene for battles in a 2D game is that it becomes acceptable for the enemies not to be animated. Do you really want to edit all those pokemon to create an animation for each of their attacks? (Actually three animations for each attack of each pokemon, since they can be facing different directions!) Of course, if you only have 75 pokemon, this becomes a little less daunting. But still really daunting. I'm making a game where battles occur on the field map Chrono Trigger style, and each enemy graphic takes me several hours to make. Even with only 75 pokemon, prepare to spend over a year just making sprites.
1) Pokemon only have like 6-12 levels each before they max out. Each level awards a new skill, and the final level sometimes causes evolution. Levels have no other effect.
2) Make enemies level with you; either all of them, or maybe just the trainers (leaving wild pokemon alone).
3) Have the player able and expected to easily reach the max level with a full team of pokemon about 25% of the way through the game. Any new pokemon he brings into his team will need to be trained up to the max level before they're good for much of anything, but training his old ones any higher is impossible.
However, if you remove the ability for the player to have a single team capbale of handling anything, you will need some way for the player to know what pokemon to bring into battle. A way other than fighting each trainer once and dying just to see what pokemon they have. One option would be to show them on the field map before battle starts; another option would be to give the player a limited amount of ability to switch his backup pokemon mid-battle; another option would be to make them use 90% pokemon that can be naturally caught in the surrounding area so that the player can predict what he'll face if he paid attention.
Between the removal of a linear level progression and the addition of sidequests, it seems like you'd do well to make a much more nonlinear type game, even as far as the main plot is concerned. Your idea of making everything accessible from the start is probably good, although "everything" probably shouldn't literally be everything - unlocking stuff by doing other stuff feels good, and you want to have some more linear stuff at the beginning to guide the player.
If the gym leaders are all extremely powerful, for example, then the player could do them in any order. However, you do need less powerful "bosses" during the game besides regular enemy trainers so that the player feels like he's reached milestones. That's the purpose that the lower-powered gym leaders serve in the original games. They give you a feeling of great accomplishment every few hours for having made progress in the game. Moving them all to the end of the game kills that. Maybe you want to simply rewrite the purpose of gym leaders so that their placement in the middle of the game makes more sense? Or maybe you want all the mid-game bosses to all be related to other plot elements?
Edit:
Regarding walking sprites, check out the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games. They have good walking sprites for a ton of pokemon. They're not battle sprites though. The biggest advantage of cutting to a seperate scene for battles in a 2D game is that it becomes acceptable for the enemies not to be animated. Do you really want to edit all those pokemon to create an animation for each of their attacks? (Actually three animations for each attack of each pokemon, since they can be facing different directions!) Of course, if you only have 75 pokemon, this becomes a little less daunting. But still really daunting. I'm making a game where battles occur on the field map Chrono Trigger style, and each enemy graphic takes me several hours to make. Even with only 75 pokemon, prepare to spend over a year just making sprites.
That's a good point about mid/early game bosses. I hadn't thought of that specifically, but my plan to remedy the reward issue was as you said, linking each gym to separate plot lines, at the risk of making the game extremely long.
For example, a rock based gym might be in a canyon where there are many wild rock pokemon to train against. Approaching the gym leader would open a questline where you would not only battle rock trainers, but also seek out specifics breeds, explore rock-centric areas, train a rock pokemon, defeat grass and fighting type pokemon, and finish off with the gym leader battle for the badge. Winning could open a quest for a rock-type legendary??
I agree with you about not having literally everything available right away, and the enemies levelling is a great idea. I do think that even though 8 badges are required for the pokemoon league, there should be more than 8 gyms to choose from.
The sprites will be a challenge, but honestly I am not terribly worried. Pokemon Absolutism has a ton of 1st-3rd gen sprites I'd use with minor edits. I have a bit of experience spriting, and the building part of game making is the most attractive to me. Pokemon essentials has databases for most of the stats needed, so I'm hoping the idea is good enough without being overly ambitious to tact a programmer for one of the newer rpgmakers.
For example, a rock based gym might be in a canyon where there are many wild rock pokemon to train against. Approaching the gym leader would open a questline where you would not only battle rock trainers, but also seek out specifics breeds, explore rock-centric areas, train a rock pokemon, defeat grass and fighting type pokemon, and finish off with the gym leader battle for the badge. Winning could open a quest for a rock-type legendary??
I agree with you about not having literally everything available right away, and the enemies levelling is a great idea. I do think that even though 8 badges are required for the pokemoon league, there should be more than 8 gyms to choose from.
The sprites will be a challenge, but honestly I am not terribly worried. Pokemon Absolutism has a ton of 1st-3rd gen sprites I'd use with minor edits. I have a bit of experience spriting, and the building part of game making is the most attractive to me. Pokemon essentials has databases for most of the stats needed, so I'm hoping the idea is good enough without being overly ambitious to tact a programmer for one of the newer rpgmakers.
It's common fanon that a Gym Leader has different teams for challengers with different numbers of badges. Later titles have shops that scale with your gym badges as well, and so on.
Compare Roark's first team with his battleground team in Platinum, and you'll see what I mean. Of course Roark is holding back against a trainer with no badges - it's his job.
Taking this into account, you could make all of your leaders scale with badges, so they're challenging regardless of the order you challenge them in.
Also, for a comprehensive Pokemon database, use veekun.
Compare Roark's first team with his battleground team in Platinum, and you'll see what I mean. Of course Roark is holding back against a trainer with no badges - it's his job.
Taking this into account, you could make all of your leaders scale with badges, so they're challenging regardless of the order you challenge them in.
Also, for a comprehensive Pokemon database, use veekun.
You should add real world critters too...

This is literally the cutest thing ever. Who's that critter?

This is literally the cutest thing ever. Who's that critter?
It's Sea Pig!
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
holy shit that looks like something cthulhu would keep for a pet
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