SHARP STUFF PLUS BULLSHIT EQUALS SHARPER STUFF

I mostly just chimed in to say I love the topic name.

OK, I guess I should talk about synthesis a little, although most of what I have to say is probably just anecdotal.

In Kingdom Hearts 2 the synthesis system was good enough that I actually went around farming for the bullshit I needed. I did not collect every item in the game, but I got pretty close, and I paid attention to the system through the entire game instead of just at the end. I went out of my way to get stuff, even stuff I wasn't sure I would ever use but thought I might need someday because it had a cool effect. How far out of my way I was willing to go varied; but if I continued the plot; I would pick up more stuff and have to go less out of my way, and most of the synth rewards were designed so that they were still useful after I waited like that, even near the end of the game.

In Diablo 3 I did not. I tried, for a while. But 90% of the time, by the time I got something decent out of the synth system, I either didn't need it any more or I was on the verge of not needing it any more. However, I think that was probably also true in KH2! I think the difference was that in KH2, when collecting ingredients, you are also simultaneously gaining EXP and gold and achievement points and mickeybucks and gummi ship parts and doing sidequests and getting five-star minigame ratings and whatever the fuck else. And the synth ingredients aren't used for anything else; they're just used for synth.

Whereas in Diablo 3, getting synth ingredients requires sacrificing stuff you could be using for almost every other system in the game, because almost all of your assets can be converted to and from gold. Equipment, ingredients, recipes, upgrade gems, and even bag space all can be acquired by gold, and so spending gold on the synth system has to be balanced against those things. That's A) impossible because half of that shit is part of the synth system and B) impossible because there's a player auction house and C) unnecessarily hard even if it weren't impossible. It's much simpler to make the currencies used by the systems not overlap, so you don't have to give up one to get the other. However, there's one currency that always is used for every system and you can't keep it from overlapping: time. If possible, do what KH2 did and make it so you can work on multiple things at once, so that at the very least, the time equation isn't totally black-and-white: "It takes 20 minutes to get through a dungeon and 45 minutes to get the ingredients I need for these upgrades; I should do the dungeon instead of bothering with synth." That's lame and encourages people to skip over the more time-intensive elements of your game. Better if they can be doing them in the background while also doing five other things.

Have you ever played an RPG bro

I think my favorite synthesis system is from Tales of Vesperia. Main reason being that not only did synthesis give you better equipment in general (as well as some stuff that you could only get through synthesis - mainly visual accessories that do nothing for stats), but it also gives you new equipment that you can't get otherwise that also teach you new abilities. Vesperia had a skill system that involved gaining another random macguffin stat besides experience that went towards learning abilities that you could then equip to raise your stats, the damage with various types of weapons, and other benefits. With the synthesis system, you could see what abilities that each new item gives you, along with what you already know from it, which allows you to pick and choose which equipment you wanted to get, as well as giving incentive for making those pieces of equipment - especially if you're a completionist about abilities.

The only other synth system I'm intimately familiar with is the one from Final Fantasy IX, but that's literally the most basic synth system ever - two items make a new item which has new abilities you can learn on them, and you get charged a fee for the synth. Though you CAN exploit it to make a super profit really early in the game, since the ingredients plus cost to make Cotton Robes is less than the selling price of a Cotton Robe.

Item Creation from the Star Ocean series is also a pretty neat system, though it doesn't involve any costs for creation. The only thing about IC is that the failure rate tends to be rather high depending on the item you're HOPING to make (since you can't decide what you're making), the character(s) you're using to conduct the IC, and also the ingredients involved if you're actually doing the Synthesis version of IC. It can be rather infuritating, simply because of the high failure rate and also because of the rarity of the items that give you the best synths and the fact that you can't choose what you're getting. Though it can be fun, I'd consider it a case of "this is not what you do" when it comes to synthesis systems.

Yeah, crafting systems tend to bring out the hoarder in me.

author=LockeZ
One thing I didn't like in FF9 was having to hold onto every single piece of equipment in the game in case it ever got used in a synthesis recipe. And even that wasn't enough because some were used in multiple recipes and some were used to make things that could be worn by multiple people, so you had to keep 4 copies of every single piece of equipment in the game.

And also weapons that could only be bought at specific times during the game.

Mythril Sword, I'm looking and GLARING directly in your direction.

I'm using a synthesis system in Sleeping Lion Heart, and I decided to make it that synthesis ingredients consist of 'Core' items (Fragments, Stones and Gems with various titles) and enemy drops, along with the previous level accessory. Most enemy drops are common and if they aren't it's pretty obvious (like a BOSS DROP). The core items are also drops, but they're there as a second avenue of cash since you don't need to synth every single piece of equipment. Once you get past a certain level in an equipment type you don't need the rest.

That was probably convoluted. Basically there's 3 levels of equipment. Level 1s need Fragments. Once you have a Lv. 2, unless you want to make more of that kind of equipment, you can sell your Fragment types, since level 2's need Stones and lv. 3s need Gems.

author=Feldschlacht IV
Synthesis sytems are usually pretty nifty, but I as a developer am not responsible for players individual neurosis'.

Unfortunately you totally are. Especially if you're creating a system that builds upon those neuroses.

90% of game design is manipulating players' feelings and actions through psychology. 60% is graphics and art, 35% is audio, and the other half is making everything work correctly.