I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU ALL, BUT A FEMALE SQUALL FOR FF8 WOULD HAVE BEEN COOL.

Posts

Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3229
author=Mr_Detective
table. The OP was just wondering how Squall would look like if he was a girl. There's plenty of gender bending fan artworks on the internet like this. It's pointless to make such a big deal out of nothing in a thread like this.
I should probably add: isn't acceptable, especially in an environment like RMN where casual objectification is taken (quite rightly, I reckon) seriously.

It's like going to a party in Tibet and talking about how cool Mao Tse-Tung was.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I don't think the idea that females could potentially exist is really that controversial

If people wanna be wankers about it though then just lock the topic, no one will mourn a welp topic about bad female versions of Squall's outfit with garters
author=Yellow Magic
author=Mr_Detective
table. The OP was just wondering how Squall would look like if he was a girl. There's plenty of gender bending fan artworks on the internet like this. It's pointless to make such a big deal out of nothing in a thread like this.
I should probably add: isn't acceptable, especially in an environment like RMN where casual objectification is taken (quite rightly, I reckon) seriously.

It's like going to a party in Tibet and talking about how cool Mao Tse-Tung was.


This is completely ridiculous and stupid.
On the internet everyone is guilty (of various thought-crimes) until proven innocent. It's the tumblr way.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3229
author=LockeZ
I don't think the idea that females could potentially exist is really that controversial
Welp, that isn't the point and you know it.

If people wanna be wankers about it though then just lock the topic, no one will mourn a welp topic about bad female versions of Squall's outfit with garters
Agreed. It's sad to see the same old arguments popping up again and again in an environment which should really be all about mak gam. Unfortunately, some of us have trouble understanding certain..realities...and those who do get what's going on are not very good at convincing the opposite side of those realities. Overall, probably a lack of real communication going on, leading to what's basically a clusterfuck, again and again...

author=Mr_Detective
This is completely ridiculous and stupid.
No it's not!
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=Avee
@Kaliesto: That new image is basically Squall with a slightly more feminine face and breasts. In my opinion it would be a completely acceptable design.

On the other topic at hand, even though I prefer characters to have a likeable personality, I admit that eye candy is a plus.
If I have to look at this character for most of the game, I don't think it's wrong for him/her to be attractive.
Granted, sexualization isn't the most noble way to appeal to the eyes, but all is good in moderation.

I think you've got a good approach here; everything in moderation.

I went on a bit of a tirade here, so I'm putting it under hide-tags so it won't take up tons of room in the thread. I also want to put forth a disclaimer that this isn't meant to be a lecture at anyone in the forum. I think you're all wonderful people and this rant here is just me going overboard explaining my feelings on the subject ^_^;;

I wanna be clear that I'm not against sex appeal in theory, I just want creators to be mindful of how it affects immersion and that it can cause a rift between players and the content. I'm not necessarily against characters being all sexy if their personalities match with that (and it's done with some tact).

Say someone wanted, for example, to make a game that's pure titillation, with all the ladies dressed like bikini-Squall or similar. I'm not going to automatically condemn that game and say it's worthless. I probably won't, however, be able to buy into the characters and my immersion will probably be ruined.

For example, there's a game on the DS called Super Robot Taisen: Endless Frontier. It's an RPG with a really neat battle system where you have to time your attacks to send your enemies flying in the air where you air-juggle them as long as you can to rack up damage. (The 3DS crossover game, Project X Zone, was made by the same team and uses a similar mechanic). That method of play is really cool to me and there's a variety of interesting characters, but, there's this little thing about all the female characters...

Take the female lead, Kaguya Nanbu. She's from a fantasy puesdo-Japan world. She's a badass female swordsman who is fearless in battle but has a bit of a shy side and gets embarrassed on occasion by the flirty male lead. I like this character idea in principle.

But what does she look like? Here she is:



Boom. Now we have a gap between the character description and the character design a mile wide. Why is she wearing such a skimpy outfit, in the context of the story? Because that's the outfit that she was given when she completed her training, and they just happen to make it too small. And even with the shy side to her personality, she just wears that the rest of the game. Bull. Shit.

"But unity! The whole point of Endless Frontier is an alternate world game with half-naked girls with jiggly breasts and fanservice to the max!" Indeed! And I'm not saying there's no place for that. But, if you're looking for believable female characters, you have to stretch your suspension of disbelieve so very very far. If you don't enjoy fan-service of the female variety, then even the best battle system in the world isn't going to help you get in to the game.

Let me get a little personal here. I'm bisexual. I find the human body of either gender to be a wonder to look at. So yes, I get it. These girls running around and fighting with nothing on is hot. There's bucketloads of titillation. But, I will never ever be able to take Kaguya seriously as a real character. No matter how much ass she kicks. And I think that's a bit of a shame.


author=Deckiller
That Ashe ass photo from XII is borderline offensive. Seriously. I remember hating that photo when it came out....and I was a randy teenager.

Yeah, that's just... wow. I had also forgotten exactly how low-cut Yuna's shorts were.
"Unacceptable" is kind of extreme for simply posting some drawings (unless it's plain porn). Reproachable maybe, as are some of comments that came afterwards... But really, I wish people could draw a line between reality and fiction. Imo, is inadequate to speak of "objectification" when referring to fictional characters, as they're in a sense objects -literary devices more like- no matter how well they're written. The kind of objectification we want to combat is the one that occurs when people misunderstands and/or extrapolates what they see in media into every day life; Something I want to believe most creators and consumers know not to encourage/do.

Discussion about fictional characters should remain firmly grounded on terms of "quality" or "investment" so as to avoid conflicts. =/
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
It's a bit of a rough area to me because I both want people to make whatever game they want without limitations, but I also want people from any background to find characters they can relate to, respond to, and cherish.

I guess that's one thing I love about creative communities like this. If you feel something you like isn't prevalent in the mainstream, you can make your own game with those elements ^_^
Male rinoa would be extremely cute.

EDIT: By the way I totally agree with the design / character segregation. It makes me puke.

I mean, look at this progression:

oh, a serious, battle hardened warrior with a bit of a reflective side.

that... got mixed with marilyn monroe?

WHAT THE HELL IS THAT SHE'S BECAME A PORN ACTRESS?
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Avee
On the other topic at hand, even though I prefer characters to have a likeable personality, I admit that eye candy is a plus.
If I have to look at this character for most of the game, I don't think it's wrong for him/her to be attractive.
Granted, sexualization isn't the most noble way to appeal to the eyes, but all is good in moderation.

The thing is, if we take this particular subject in moderation, there's already enough material out there to hold us over for the next century.

Clothed until proven necessary, I say. By that I mean, until you prove that there is some sort of reason that is absolutely necessary to get the point across about how a character dresses, keep them properly clothed. No one would realistically walk around in a chainmail bikini 24/7.

If you've got exposed cleavage, why not keep it reserved for an exquisite dress that's worn to a fancy gathering or a ball?



This is good. You can tell the character is a woman who holds herself to a realistic standard because she isn't just loltits. And yet, later in the game, she's attending a ball at the Tycoon Castle wearing this:



With this, you really came to appreciate Faris for who she is as a strong, independent individual, while her birthright as a princess stands as a powerful yet beautiful contrast to the facade she expresses everywhere else, exemplified by her mild discomfort to wearing a dress which is understandable given how long it's been since she's expressed any outward sense of femininity.
I think rampant fan service is a hallmark of a terrible game that I can avoid. This is capitalism: use your money to dictate developers' decisions. The only reason that characters like Trixie McTits from Unity's post exist is because it's an effective means to sell games, so stop supporting it. There are plenty of games out there that don't do this. (Not that a sexed-up character can't exist in a game, but if they're featured prominently on box art and advertisements like Record of the Agarest War's boob mouse pad, then it's a crappy gimmick to sell games, and it should sicken you.)

Also, that Valkyrie Profile progression is just sad. I wish that game would have sold better initially; it was such a beautiful game--easily in my top five.
author=Yellow Magic
For Christ's sake. Some of you guys have a penchant for opening Pandora's Box, don't you? Posting topics like this...seriously, you don't need to possess 1337 sociAL sKIllZ to know images like in the OP just isn't acceptable.


author=Yellow Magic
I should probably add: isn't acceptable, especially in an environment like RMN where casual objectification is taken (quite rightly, I reckon) seriously.

It's like going to a party in Tibet and talking about how cool Mao Tse-Tung was.


None of us here are seven years old. If anyone here is unable to handle a controversial topic and discuss it maturely, those individuals probably shouldn't be here. I am not cool with stifling discussion.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3229
I used to be all for ~discussion~ too, until I realised that most discussions that take place concerning sensitive issues like these revolve around one side 'flaming' (remember that word?) the other, with the receiving end playing the victim. I'm sure it can't be fun for the moderation team to handle the same arguments repeatedly...as an OP of the IRC channel myself, I can't count then number of times an individual's written one ever-so-slightly, uh, 'politically incorrect' sentence only to have a 'debate' threatening to spiral out of proportion every time (leading to frantic damage limitation on my end) and ultimately ending up nowhere (in terms of changing peoples' perspectives).

Luckily, one half of the usual suspects don't seem to have seen this topic yet, and I'm thinking it's best to keep it that way.

EDIT: My point was proven in IRC about an hour and 15 minutes after this post was initially created. I have a chatlog in case you're interested. ALTHOUGH I'll admit this was one of the rare instances the 'victim' side admitted to their guilt, so that was nice.
Um.....

To think I posted this topic for the fun-factor. Man you all scare me sometimes lol.

On a side-note I noticed one picture at the beginning of the topic was removed, I apologize to the mod-staff if it was offending.
I don't believe it was particularily offending, considering the circumstances. Also don't worry, I guess it takes a bit of experience to get used to it hehe
Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12986
Why is everyone taking any picture in this thread so personally? Geez, guys!
author=Kaliesto
To think I posted this topic for the fun-factor.


Well I though the same and that's why I check this topic, and said whoa that's a cool female squall, then after, I read a lot of controversy like if it the topic name was female roles on video-games and it was on the general discussion section. So let's go deeper in order for a change

What if...
Final Fantasy characters were dogs!


@Yellow Magic
I know you are right but I got to agree with FeldSchlach, I know that when "sensitive issues" are being discussed, almost always happen that there is someone raging because there are "different interpretations of the same language",that normally ends ruining most of the discussion leading to a pointless and dead end were there can't be more space for discussion. But that doesn't mean that there isn't someone talking about something objectively and someone else find it useful or interesting along the way. (In which btw I find Corfaisus post pretty interesting because of my ignorance in the field.) So a big fuss for such little sustance? indeed, but sounds just as human as it happens to be, so I don't see why to stop it (unless it already gets to being offensive or out of control of course), but above all got to thanks the concern you still have even after handling the same kind of discussions over and over again that you already know how it ends and that does seems tireful. Sorry for the long and serious answer in a topic I actually think is just for fun and no for discussion, but I felt like sharing it.


AWW THE WHAT IF FINAL FANTASY CHARACTERS WERE DOGS IMG IS SO CUTE
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW
hello I would like to discuss how women have taken all the 'sexy poses' I believe squall can show his sexy side if he adopted such a pose please see below for example



please see The Hawkeye Initiative for more such examples

For real: THI is a thumbs up a+ recommended website, both for laughs of the content and disgust of what the content is based on
Solitayre
Circumstance penalty for being the bard.
18257
author=JosephSeraph
AWW THE WHAT IF FINAL FANTASY CHARACTERS WERE DOGS IMG IS SO CUTE
AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW


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This is now a thread about what if FF characters were dogs.