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UKRAINE: PROTESTS AGAINST THE WITHDRAWAL FROM FUTURE WITH EU
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Feldschlacht IV
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CloseUkraine protests: Bloodshed on Europe's doorstep as EU tries and fails to stop killing
I'm sure you guys have (or at least I HOPE you have) heard of the mass riots and protests in the Ukraine over the presidents backing off from his promise of closer ties to the EU in favor of Russia (among other instances of screwing the nation over)
It's getting really bad over there, with hundreds wounded and dozens killed so far. What do you guys make of all this?
I'm sure you guys have (or at least I HOPE you have) heard of the mass riots and protests in the Ukraine over the presidents backing off from his promise of closer ties to the EU in favor of Russia (among other instances of screwing the nation over)
It's getting really bad over there, with hundreds wounded and dozens killed so far. What do you guys make of all this?
What's there to make? It's an awful situation and one that should have never existed in the first place. Clearly the next presidential election need to happen sooner rather than later (which it just might).
On a less serious note, thanks for reminding me of this:
On a less serious note, thanks for reminding me of this:
ChuJooRi
1035
Kiev is one of the nicest cities I passed through when I disappeared (read: left and traveled without telling anyone) last year. I am very saddened by what is happening there and I hope the deal signed today will end this.
Shinan
4314
I've not been following this too closely. It's always on the news and eventually it sorts of fades into the background of all the other news things that happen. I remember the Orange Revolution though and all the talk about what great things would come of Ukraine back then. And I guess this is some kind of continuation of that. A struggle between old and new.
Shinan
4314
Apparently Russia is now about to invade Ukraine. I honestly didn't think it would go into international hostilities like this.
Rex
0
10$ says that when things get bloody, the rest of the world will wait 'till it's too late to do something.
Russia demands Ukrainian navy surrender by 3PM GMT.
Well fuck. I don't like where this is headed
e: Now it's being denied by Russia. I'm assuming it was a trial balloon of sorts floated by Russia and quickly denied so nothing significant will probably come of this.
Well fuck. I don't like where this is headed
e: Now it's being denied by Russia. I'm assuming it was a trial balloon of sorts floated by Russia and quickly denied so nothing significant will probably come of this.
author=Yellow Magic
^Why is Russia cosplaying as North Korea
Maybe because the Russian men’s ice hockey team choked and Putin lost a bet with Kim Jong-un about it???
Either way, this is getting pretty ridiculous.
I live in Crimea.
Well... I certainly didn't expect something like this to happen.
Especially with the recent events that took place here. Anyway, if someone still interested, ask me anything.
Well... I certainly didn't expect something like this to happen.
Especially with the recent events that took place here. Anyway, if someone still interested, ask me anything.
author=Feldschlacht IV
Well, what do you think is going to happen next?
Right now, Crimea is, in fact, already a part of Russian Federation. IN FACT. But not in law. Most of Europe and USA don't recognize this.
97 percent of Crimean population were glad as hell to join with Russia. So now, with all the tension on the border our people think that Ukraine and EU don't respect the their choices.
Ukraine doesn't want STILL to give up. As they say, "when we will reconstruct the country, we will make sure Crimea comes back to us". This obviously includes various courts etc. It will be a long and painful process.
Regarding Russia. They don't give a shit. Literally.
The possibility of starting a war? Right now it is highly unlikely. However, in future it may become true.
http://news.yahoo.com/families-russian-troops-ukraine-want-answers-192648214.html
In checking internet news articles, I came across this.
Putin is at it again. Has ordered his troops into Ukraine but made them sign a paper saying they are on leave and fighting on their own to help the separatists.
The worst part is when his troops are killed in action, he refuses to tell the widows and mothers what really happened to their loved ones.
I hope those mothers and wives kick his ass.
In checking internet news articles, I came across this.
Putin is at it again. Has ordered his troops into Ukraine but made them sign a paper saying they are on leave and fighting on their own to help the separatists.
The worst part is when his troops are killed in action, he refuses to tell the widows and mothers what really happened to their loved ones.
I hope those mothers and wives kick his ass.
Kaempfer
1932
"97 percent of Crimean population were glad as hell to join with Russia."
I would like to see literally any evidence of this past the obviously phoney election they held.
Like, ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL to support the notion that 97 per-fucking-cent of the people in a given region agreed on ANYTHING never mind something as obviously divisive as leaving your sovereign nation for another.
It took me literally twenty seconds to find this: http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/crimea-referendum-34-percent-not-97-percent-says-former-russian-government-adviser/ which would seem to cast some doubt about your figures.
I would like to see literally any evidence of this past the obviously phoney election they held.
Like, ANY EVIDENCE AT ALL to support the notion that 97 per-fucking-cent of the people in a given region agreed on ANYTHING never mind something as obviously divisive as leaving your sovereign nation for another.
It took me literally twenty seconds to find this: http://guardianlv.com/2014/03/crimea-referendum-34-percent-not-97-percent-says-former-russian-government-adviser/ which would seem to cast some doubt about your figures.
Dyhalto
7536
author=Kaempfer
I would like to see literally any evidence of this past the obviously phoney election they held.
Andrey Illarionov is a discredited neoliberal hack who idles his days writing drivel for the CATO Institute.
The article also cites support from Yulia Tymoshenko who wanted to commit mass genocide on ethnic Russians and then went on to run for the highest political office.
I could say more, but the facts speak for themselves : That article is 5 months old and the world still regards the referendum as 90+%.
Shinan
4314
author=Dyhalto
I could say more, but the facts speak for themselves : That article is 5 months old and the world still regards the referendum as 90+%.
I don't really see any facts. The fact that Timoshenko agrees with data supplied by previous years of polling as opposed to a widely contested election result? (A result that was widely disagreed with in the UN Assembly) Just because she said something unrelated to the thing somehow illegitimizes the all criticism?
I remember when the result was announced it was fairly easy to find detractors of the result in regular "people on the street" interviews. I don't know but I somehow even find it unlikely that the 50+% of Crimeans that are Russian voted 97% in favour of the thing.
Of course this is technically a necroed topic. But it's still fairly relevant since all of this seems to never stop. (and has been looming all summer)
Dyhalto
7536
author=ShinanIt's a matter of the person's integrity shedding light on how much value you should place in their judgment.
The fact that Timoshenko agrees with data supplied by previous years of polling as opposed to a widely contested election result? (A result that was widely disagreed with in the UN Assembly) Just because she said something unrelated to the thing somehow illegitimizes the all criticism?
For example, if Nightowl called you an idiot, you probably wouldn't lose sleep over it, but if kentona called you an idiot, there might be some feelings hurt. Likewise, if a friend of yours adores gratuitous chick flicks and recommends The Last 5 Years, you'll have some reservations.
Similarly, if a person says "it’s about time we grab our guns and kill go kill those damn Russians", then her opinion on a pro-Russian poll is better off ignored, or at best a novel display of political fecklessness.
Something else you should consider about this "unlikely" referendum is the political climate it took place under. First you had the Maidan demonstrations/riots. Then both of the top contenders for prime minister, Tymoshenko and Poroshenko, established themselves firmly as anti-Russian demagogues. And then the issue of downgrading/eliminating Russian as a recognized national language was making headlines at the time.
If the major federal political parties in Canada all became anti-Quebec demagogues, considering de-listing French as a recognized language, the Bloc Quebecois would probably enjoy a 90+% separatist referendum too.
Shinan
4314
Except of course that only 55% of the Crimean population is Russian. The rest are mostly Ukrainians or Crimean Tatars. Which correlates with the 30-40% support that seceding had before the crisis. I don't doubt that during the crisis support changed in various directions, but even if 100% of the Russians and say 50% of the rest of ethnic groups in Crimea voted for it it still wouldn't be more than 70+%.
So if a friend who likes chick flicks Fight Club, a movie that is also recommended by a bunch of other friends with various tastes. Obviously I only listen to that one friend and not the others. So Timoshenko agrees with some guy who is also agreed with by most of the UN Assembly. Obviously it's Timoshenko that makes it so I can't trust anything that is being said.
That's why when I will eventually rig an election I'll make the victory 70-something percent rather than 90-something percent. Since it will seem a lot more plausible, while also being highly legitimate. But that's just me and I guess that's why I'm not in power.
So if a friend who likes chick flicks Fight Club, a movie that is also recommended by a bunch of other friends with various tastes. Obviously I only listen to that one friend and not the others. So Timoshenko agrees with some guy who is also agreed with by most of the UN Assembly. Obviously it's Timoshenko that makes it so I can't trust anything that is being said.
That's why when I will eventually rig an election I'll make the victory 70-something percent rather than 90-something percent. Since it will seem a lot more plausible, while also being highly legitimate. But that's just me and I guess that's why I'm not in power.
Dyhalto
7536
Except that Fight Club isn't a chick flick. I'm sure Tymoshenko's opinion on vanilla ice cream would jive with yours too.
Yeah, well, the UN was formed to prevent wars and they're doing a bang-up job of it, aren't they?
author=Shinan
most of the UN Assembly.
Yeah, well, the UN was formed to prevent wars and they're doing a bang-up job of it, aren't they?
It's too bad the UN can't just change the Veto to a majority vote system.
So many times all but one member tries to do something to help a group of
people and that one damn UN member is allowed to screw it up with his veto.
It's too bad the Russian people have to live with the results of Putins
desire to rule that part of the world.
So many times all but one member tries to do something to help a group of
people and that one damn UN member is allowed to screw it up with his veto.
It's too bad the Russian people have to live with the results of Putins
desire to rule that part of the world.
