[POLL] M.O.G. MULTIPART EVENT - PARED DOWN?

Poll

Would you participate in the M.O.G. game creation multipart event? - Results

Yes - I totally the whole thing!
18
22%
I am tempted, but probably would not deliver anything
22
27%
I would partially participate in principle - I would submit some of the things
15
18%
No, but this is a good idea.
20
25%
No, and this is a stupid idea. Boo!
4
5%

Posts

BurningTyger
Hm i Wonder if i can pul somethi goff here/
1289
I didn't say I'd only stick to my comfort zone, TYVM. But frankly I'm not certain I'm ready for this quite yet. That doesn't mean i wouldn't like to build up to it , but I'm not sure i like this approach. Not la of us can run a mile yet, but you're inviting us to run a Marathon. Telling people "your goal is to make a complete game" risks having too many people overheat trying to get everything, geeting only part of it done, and feeling like also-rans.. By putting more emphasis on the individual sections as events of their own (this month you do a pitch>" Next month you do music) people can focus on one event at a time and worry about weaving everything together at the end, if indeed they mesh. So It'd be less about making a game than about making the components I guess, with bonuses for those who made everything hang together. And there's always music mucker and wolfram. Technically it's still guided by you. . . . And yes if this goes ahead I might participate- whether or not my vote agrees with that- but still am not sure I like your approach. Frankly I'm somewhat concerned about its potential to exacerbate a makerscore equality gap, though I'll admit I haven;t really seen any elitist makerscore-related behavior here.
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
If that is how you feel, you can just participate in the individual events as they come up.
900 points of makerscore?! ... Hum...
Nah, I'm not going to sacrifice my very first game for this. I want it to be great in an 80%, even if it takes me another year.
BurningTyger
Hm i Wonder if i can pul somethi goff here/
1289
(^Sarcasm?) Well there's no reason not to try if we're going ahead with this, - I'll just have to not let myself get overwhelmed. Anyway, there are pluses and minuses to it. I'll probably be saner and calmer after a nap.
Based on what it was to work on Halloween Wars, which features custom graphics and gameplay, but ripped music and RTP sound effects...
Knowing that I put about 6 hours of work a day on it (be prepared to sacrifice sleep and/or social life) and it took about 10 weeks to finish the game...
Knowing that the game runs the same handful of events several times and is relatively short (2-3 hours)...

...I'd say that 20 weeks may seem a very limited amount of time to people who are not yet comfortable drawing their own graphics, composing their own music, coding their own gameplay, etc.
Games submitted would likely be minimalistic and/or short. I'd advise developers not to expect to make anything remotely ambitious.

That being said I'd support this event and participate, because I like to encourage creativity and original work.

EDIT: Also, kentona, I think a gameprofile would come way after the pitch is made, probably a few weeks before a demo release, because we'd need screenshots/footage of actual gameplay.
But I think it'd be interesting to submit an early 1-2 page document that describes the game's main planned features.
I could attempt custom graphics, but everything would look like a Paint picture if I did.
I'm with everyone else in that an "RTP deprived project" would be better, because quite frankly not everyone has time for making custom resources, and even if everyone did, then not everybody is good at it. I do understand the idea of getting most of us out of our comfort zones, and I think it's a good idea, but I am honestly predicting that whoever enters will cut corners somewhere along the line. My vote is down as "No, but it's a good idea".

edit: Can someone explain why I got a "Slow down their buddy!" message?
Adon237
if i had an allowance, i would give it to rmn
1743
So there doesn't have to be a game to present or you can just do a few individual events without actually having a game to show for it?

Even if not, I want to attempt this in it's current rule set anyway.
If I were to attempt one, it would probably end up like Pom Gets Wifi coupled with crappy music without all the hype.

So my answer is no. I honestly don't have a lot of time to do all this.
Let alone learn all of it.

Scripting itself is pretty difficult to learn as they have a steep learning curve for most languages and for those very new to scripting might find it very hard to learn if they don't start with something simple like VB.net or Python. (I would rank ruby just above the 2 languages.)
Come on guys! It's all about trying, and we're all gonna be crap at a few points in it so we might as well be crap together, laugh together at ourselves and our inabilities to do some of the shit, and perhaps, just perhaps, find an as-yet undiscovered ability that we didn't know we had.

We're not about the end product, but the journey that goes with it! Think not of what you can do when you get there, but how you got there and the challenges you met and overcame on the way!

Besides, this does sound fun~


Also? I want to point out that I wasn't thrilled at the idea of an event like this to begin with, and as of yesterday I still wasn't too sure that you lot would do it but the idea of growing along side everyone and seeing all of us pull shit out of our asses and do stuff that we've probably tried and failed at, but decide to try again and see if we pull through... that's made me change my mind about it.

I like the idea of all of us getting together and trying to overcome our own pride, inadequacies and insecurities in our abilities. I like the idea of a group of people challenging each other and working together but not and being there to give feedback as a group without worrying about what we'll end up with at the end, but just enjoying the steps we take to get there together.

So what if your sound is shit? So what if you can't draw for balls? At least you're trying. And even if the game at the end is ballshit, so? So what? You finished and that is all that matters.

I wanna share with you a secret.

The game I take most pride in that I made myself is the shittiest game on my games list. Project X & O. Yeah, okay, it's terribad and has a lot wrong with it, but it was the first game I made in under a day, was the first time I truly understood how to use variables and used them without a tutorial, the first mini-game I ever created without looking at a tutorial and checking what to do on the internet. I pieced it together with my own knowledge of the program and while it's not anywhere near a great game or interesting or even completely bug-free and functional, it was something that I created to prove that I could, and did.


And that is what kentona is putting forward with this event: the chance for all of us to create something to prove to ourselves that we CAN.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
With the sole exception of audio, this is basically what I'm already doing for my main project!

I'm about three years in and maybe 20% of the way done.
It seems like most people are entirely fine with one or two parts of the creation process, but not necessarily the entire thing, so maybe the solution is to turn this into more of a communal event?

Basically, everyone who participates would have to make a full game of some sort using only the assets created in this event, but there could be a collective pool of assets.

For example, everyone participating would need to create at least one sound effect and at least one song, but they would be able to use songs and sound effects submitted by others as well as their own; this would mean everyone still does something outside of their comfort zone (ex: make music) and at worst nobody ends up using the assets.

As for the graphical segment, each person could be required to submit a minimum of X amount of at least one 'type' of graphical asset (ex: 1 full tileset or 10 enemies or 5 animations or 5 character sheets or some other relatively low balance of numbers); those who are particularly good at creating graphics might submit a bit of everything while those who aren't artistically inclined still would need to provide a decent amount of assets for the community to draw from in at least one category. However, one thing to note is people would definitely need to announce what type of graphical assets they plan to provide in advance since otherwise there would be the risk of ending up with something like everyone submitting enemy sprites and absolutely no tilesets.

With this system, everyone still needs to participate in every major aspect of making a game, those who want to do absolutely everything on their own still can (though they should still submit their assets to the community pool), it becomes a mixture of a community and an individual undertaking, and everyone moves out of their comfort zones by creating at least something for each segment while still having a safety net of sorts by being able to draw from the collective resource pool created by everyone participating.
I was actually just thinking about something like this the other day. I'd love to create a game from complete scratch, and enforcing the need to make all of the resources on one's own would really bring out people's artistic qualities - some they may not even know they have!

However, these are my qualms:

  • The time limit(s). I just don't see people meeting the mark. I know there are competitions here all the time that enforce challenging time allotments, and that people do meet them, but when you consider the magnitude of this undertaking, it just doesn't seem realistic - at least, not by your rough draft. I would extend the grace period for actually working on the game by at least a couple of weeks, and if you need to balance out the numbers, take some time out of the allotment for graphics (8 weeks is a lot when you consider how easy it would be to make minimalist designs).
  • Sound effects. I can't fathom how anyone could create a full set of good sound effects for anything other than a cheap comedy game. I guarantee you're going to have a lot of projects where a hero swings a sword and you hear either someone verbalizing "chhhhhng!" or the clatter of silverware against a desk. Sure, some sound effects like grunts and running water are on the nose, but emulating sounds like fire, thunder, weapons, environmental disaster, and so on, are going to be out of most people's reach. This brings up another point...
  • Verifying legitimacy. It may be easy to tell if the dev created his/her graphics or merely lifted them from elsewhere, but things like music and sound effects are harder to verify. Unless the idea is to go by the honor system and assume that nobody will allow themselves to cheat, making sure that people don't will be no easy feat.


It's an intriguing concept, but it definitely needs some more thought.
I actually like Seeric's ideas very much. I am of the view that we should not all be jack-of-all-trades. Not everyone is good at everything, and I don't think it's useful to try to improve ourselves in our weak points because then we'll just be average at everything. I'd rather be extremely skilled in one area and shit in all the rest, instead of just average at everything.

This might be grounds for a different type of event in the future, but that's why I think that a switch of focus on a single person trying to do everything for their project (which, by the way, is how it normally works), but to have a collaborative event, where everyone posts things that cater to their strengths. For example, a person who is great at making puzzles (like myself) can donate a set of 10 puzzles for someone else to use in their project. A graphical artiste who isn't so good at gameplay can donate a tileset for someone else to use. Someone who is good at making combat systems and enemies can put their project file up for a great mapper to beautify. So potentially we can have this repository where a bunch of people can leave their unfinished works for other people to pick up and add their own little twist to.

I don't know, maybe I'm proposing changing the event entirely, but that's just what I believe we should do to foster a greater sense of community like Liberty said. Housekeeping said that too often people work by themselves, they want to actually get involved with others. But the problem is, working with teams is often really hard, since everyone has their own timetables and different levels of commitment. If there's a free space where everyone can contribute their strengths in a freeform manner, maybe something can emerge from that madness.

This event might be for some people and I'll support those people entirely but I don't think I can commit for the months that it says it should. Perhaps I'll donate a little here and there, but if someone else would be able to use it then that would be better imo.
BurningTyger
Hm i Wonder if i can pul somethi goff here/
1289
i just saw on twitter This, whihc made me th8ink : RuPaul ‏@RuPaul Mar 8

"It's hard to fail, but it's worse never to have tried to succeed"~Teddy Roosevelt. On the other hand I do feel there are risks. Frankly I sometimes wonder iwhy peole don;t work MORe in teams however- after al many of the commerdcial game companies did that. Uematsu did the arrangements and amano did the concept art.. and benny why can't you be extremely skilled in one area and trying to improve in others? There's no reason, once you accept your weaknesses ("A fish can't whistle and neither can I") that you can't work on some of them for example go to the gym to get stronger if you're weak- and not lose the skills you're good in.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
6003
I wonder if the event would be better as "Make a game from scratch and make AT LEAST ONE ASPECT of the resources all by yourself"

Do you want to make the music? The pixel art? The sound effects? Do you want to make a set of FMVs? Hand-drawn backgrounds for all the levels? 3D character models?

You don't have to do all of them yourself, but do one of them yourself and use RTP or freeware for the rest.

I kind of think everyone would enjoy that a lot more, and you'd get way better games out of it... but it would still be a huge challenge
I like that LockeZ is at least nearing what looked to be the original intent of this.

I'd love it if we started this and every one of the sub-events turned into an effort for us to teach each other what we know. Like, we'd still be getting out of our comfort zones but we'd be supporting each other <3
Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12896
I agree with avee that you might want to allow a bit more time for an event that encourages breaking out of your comfort zone. Otherwise, this seems fine by me. I'll more than likely not participate in it on the account that I still need to deal with Pokemon: Real 'Mon Network Version.
So in my understanding it like a workshop on how to make a game as a whole. (As in learning scripting, making music, and such...?

Well I will join since I really want to learn something here.

And also your "before school starts for like 80% of our userbase" Umm.. My school end on March 14 and start on june 9... But I will try to work on it. (But since it ends on August and I know how event and test were planned in my school. so I won't have any problems with it anyways.)
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3945
If this started May 16th, I would totally the whole thing. This would be the perfect thing to get me to do stuff. However, seeing it's going to start much earlier, I don't know if I'll deliver much. It's a great idea though.
author=BurningTyger
(^Sarcasm?)

Don't worry, it wasn't.
That prize is great, but I want my first game to be special. I'm too ambitious. U_U