[POLL] M.O.G. MULTIPART EVENT - PARED DOWN?

Poll

Would you participate in the M.O.G. game creation multipart event? - Results

Yes - I totally the whole thing!
18
22%
I am tempted, but probably would not deliver anything
22
27%
I would partially participate in principle - I would submit some of the things
15
18%
No, but this is a good idea.
20
25%
No, and this is a stupid idea. Boo!
4
5%

Posts

kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
author=jomarcenter
So in my understanding it like a workshop on how to make a game as a whole. (As in learning scripting, making music, and such...?

Well I will join since I really want to learn something here.

And also your "before school starts for like 80% of our userbase" Umm.. My school end on March 14 and start on june 9... But I will try to work on it. (But since it ends on August and I know how event and test were planned in my school. so I won't have any problems with it anyways.)
You are the 20%.

author=LockeZ
I wonder if the event would be better as "Make a game from scratch and make AT LEAST ONE ASPECT of the resources all by yourself"

Do you want to make the music? The pixel art? The sound effects? Do you want to make a set of FMVs? Hand-drawn backgrounds for all the levels? 3D character models?

You don't have to do all of them yourself, but do one of them yourself and use RTP or freeware for the rest.

I kind of think everyone would enjoy that a lot more, and you'd get way better games out of it... but it would still be a huge challenge
Yeah, that's pretty much the idea. Do the custom things that you want to do (but like you said ONE of the aspects should be custom!). But I would still have to run all of the sub events.

One thing regarding the timelines... there seems to be some confusion there. You can start on EVERYTHING the moment the parent event starts - you can even start making the final game. The time-windows listed in the diagram is the timeframe for when the sub-event takes place. That's when you can start submitting, and the end is when the deadline is for that particular sub-event. And that is only really so that you can get the achievements (and help keep you on schedule!). Like I mentioned, after about a week of the deadline passing, I will be reopening the sub-event so that latecomers can submit their works (and I figure get a "Latecomer" achievement that is worth 50% of the main achievement), and the reopened subevents will basically be open right up until the final deadline.

However, I am reconsidering the tight timelines - I might stretch out the event by, say, 50% across the board (which means that this event would run well in to Fall.)


On the subject, the other variation I was toying was a "2 part" sort-of related event:

1) Make a Resource Pack Event - make a full resource pack, or part of a resource pack - tilesets, monsters, charsets, sound track, sound effects, etc..

2) Make a Game From the Afore-created Resource Packs - you have to make a game, but you are ONLY allowed to use resources created by the previous event (not necessarily your own) or further resources created by that same resource creator (or yourself)! So if I made a full resource pack in the previous event, LockeZ could make a game using my resources, and if he needed more he'd have to work with me to make them, or make them himself. Also, if you use your own resources and only your own, you'd get a special MOG Superstar achievement.

Anywho, that was the gist of that variation.


My ultimate intent here is to get people trying their hand at making their own resources.
author=kentona
author=Feldschlacht IV
yo who called me
Notorious.

I chuckled, and then I was dismayed because I realized that very few people here will understand that reference.

I know this is two pages of discussion ago, but *Captain America in Avengers* I understood that reference. */Avengers*

edit: also voted "tempted but probably wouldn't deliver" because that is pretty much otokonoko.txt
author=thatbennyguy
I actually like Seeric's ideas very much. I am of the view that we should not all be jack-of-all-trades. Not everyone is good at everything, and I don't think it's useful to try to improve ourselves in our weak points because then we'll just be average at everything. I'd rather be extremely skilled in one area and shit in all the rest, instead of just average at everything.

This might be grounds for a different type of event in the future, but that's why I think that a switch of focus on a single person trying to do everything for their project (which, by the way, is how it normally works), but to have a collaborative event, where everyone posts things that cater to their strengths. For example, a person who is great at making puzzles (like myself) can donate a set of 10 puzzles for someone else to use in their project. A graphical artiste who isn't so good at gameplay can donate a tileset for someone else to use. Someone who is good at making combat systems and enemies can put their project file up for a great mapper to beautify. So potentially we can have this repository where a bunch of people can leave their unfinished works for other people to pick up and add their own little twist to.

I don't know, maybe I'm proposing changing the event entirely, but that's just what I believe we should do to foster a greater sense of community like Liberty said. Housekeeping said that too often people work by themselves, they want to actually get involved with others. But the problem is, working with teams is often really hard, since everyone has their own timetables and different levels of commitment. If there's a free space where everyone can contribute their strengths in a freeform manner, maybe something can emerge from that madness.

This event might be for some people and I'll support those people entirely but I don't think I can commit for the months that it says it should. Perhaps I'll donate a little here and there, but if someone else would be able to use it then that would be better imo.


Just to clarify my own position: I think that learning every step of the process is a good thing. Even if you want to specialize in one area, you should still attempt the other areas--not to master them, but to understand what goes into everything. You'll also be able to better communicate with teammates if you know some basic terminology from different areas and understand the hurdles they're jumping over.

That said, becoming an expert in even one area takes lots of time. I feel like it's taken me a decade to get any good at music and storytelling, and there's still a lot more I can learn to master these crafts. It takes years just to be "good enough." If you're smart, you can cut corners in ways that let you get away with middling work. Yume Nikki, for example, had very little to do in terms of gameplay, but the developer used their aesthetics and sound design to make a gripping experience. Text-based games can use smart gameplay decisions and strong storytelling to forgo graphics. But, all of this is just an attempt to "make something good with what you've got" instead of "make the game that you dream about." If I wanted to make the game I dream about by myself, it would take me another decade to pick up the skills I need, and then another decade to make the damn thing. There's a reason people specialize to make games, and that's time.

But, yeah, this event's still a cool idea to just learn the ropes. It's just mainly going to be for people who are still in the learning stages rather than people who have hit the point where they're really ready to make a solid product. If you can enter any part of the event, then the issues I mentioned with people losing interest won't be problematic. I support the event, but I don't think it'll benefit me personally. I'd love an event that forces me into teams, like a series of random pairings for week-long events to make micro-games or something.
author=Housekeeping
But, yeah, this event's still a cool idea to just learn the ropes. It's just mainly going to be for people who are still in the learning stages rather than people who have hit the point where they're really ready to make a solid product. If you can enter any part of the event, then the issues I mentioned with people losing interest won't be problematic. I support the event, but I don't think it'll benefit me personally. I'd love an event that forces me into teams, like a series of random pairings for week-long events to make micro-games or something.
The reason I was initially somewhat negative was just that, I once tried making my own music, and I don't mean that I just fiddled around with it for a afternoon. I spent months on it. In the end, I realized I just wasn't enjoying myself, even when I got some decent tunes out. That's probably why I'm a bit negative about this type of thing. I've found the stuff I enjoy doing, and aim to better myself at those instead of forcing myself to do something I don't enjoy. I can see why this type of event would be enjoyable for some, but I probably won't be participating.

I also think a team event where you're put together with some random people would be nice. That kind of out-of-comfort-zone I can agree with.
I'd definitely participate (free time permitting) if we were to do the two-part event since it's pretty close to what I had suggested. I'm terrible at both drawing and creating music, but I still wouldn't mind at least attempting to make a few enemy and/or character sprites and maybe even a terrible song or two (though I wouldn't even know where to begin with a tileset). Plus, I think it would be very interesting to see how everyone utilizes the different assets created by the community in their games, especially since there would be such a mixture of styles and intents amongst the assets.
BurningTyger
Hm i Wonder if i can pul somethi goff here/
1289
Both the above and owl's ideas sound pretty good ot me.
I agree with he majority here. One thing is to get out of your comfort zone and another to go head-on into uncharted territory. For example, maybe my only "area of expertise" would be art. Writing and game mechanics are far from being my "comfort zone" but I still try. Music and sound effects in the other hand, I wouldn't even know where to start-- What program do I use? What buttons do I push? Just getting acquainted with a new program can be a huge time sink, let alone actually making something half-decent with it.

For the record, I love the idea behind this series of contests. I'm one who strongly believes in "inter-disciplinarity" (sp?) and likes to encourage custom content creation. But I think at this time, the community is ill-fitted for this kind of endeavor...

That's why I'd like to propose a "tutorials event" before this one. There are tons of tutorials out there in the web, but some are too complicated or simply not oriented to game developers. So let's make our own tutorial(s), or just share our own experiences on the creation of custom resources... Are you familiar with a certain program? Have you developed any shortcuts to make the process less easier? You can contribute with any kind of information you think could be useful. And it doesn't need to be a competition either. Just think of it as a community effort, but instead of pooling in resources (which could stifle creativity) we'd be pooling in knowledge! Yay! :D

And in the event that this series of events do happen, I suggest we keep things simple. Akin to what some of us did for the Arcade Hero event, because even a small rpg, together with balanced mechanics and whatnot can be a daunting task.
Purely hypothetical solution suggestion (riffing off AE's post):

Each stage of the event comes with a "primer" written by a "qualified" person(s) from RMN as well as links to further reading around the internet. Another step further would be to allow some area-qualified people to be "designated mentors" for that particular event page - they can still participate like anyone else but are made available for support and mentoring for that specific area for the duration of the event. Or support could be left open and "crowd-sourced" on the event page via discussion, progress updates/WIP shots and link-sharing between people at all skill levels. Remember it's no a contest, after all(except against yourself).

(Primer would include everything a person would need to get started, including program information etc, for music it might get a little dicey but there are some free programs out there afaik - then along from that would be enough knowledge to help engender at least a modicum of confidence in even total beginners.)
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5331
I'd be much more down with this is the tutorial/primer things were there, definitely.
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
or I could not bother with the event, if it is going to be too much of a hassle to participate. Because it will be a lot of work to run and co-ordinate.
If I can find the time between work and my current game, I'd probably get in on something like this.

I don't really see where all the worry is coming from, honestly. I don't think the guidelines are as rigorous as some people were reading them.
In my understanding, you don't have to participate in every sub event. So if you wanted, you could devote the entire overarching timeline (or at least until the due date for your chosen deliverable) to creating one custom resource, be it music, graphics, etc. And since this isn't a contest, you're not really being pressured to meet the goal of creating a complete game.

I also really like the idea that Housekeeping and SnowOwl mentioned of being put in random teams. Though I think that could be a totally separate event for a later date and I'd still want to participate in both, since they exercise different dev muscles.
I think this would be something that I would participate in if I really wanted to challenge myself after finishing a couple of games on my own and try my hand at doing something that I’m usually not quite accustomed to. But since it’s hard enough for me to a complete a second full version game and give my first one the remastered treatment and release on here already, I probably wouldn’t do something like this for quite some time. It’s a good idea on paper, though, but I feel that this might be something targeted towards more of the experienced / veteran members of the site who have already finished a numerous amount of projects, maybe even creating some of their own resources for them, and are looking to earn some extra makerscore / do it for the challenge of it.

I do like maybe the idea if someone, like me, who is good in the story / creative writing process was chosen to work in a random team with people who are good at pretty much everything else that I’m not very good at, like doing pixel art, music, etc. and see what type of game we could probably come up with in a limited amount of time. That’s something that would probably interest a bit more than doing everything on my own.

Either way, it’s an interesting, different type of event for sure. Not something that I would probably participate in due to other responsibilities, but something that might be a bit of a success with some of the other members here.
unity
You're magical to me.
12399
This random team idea sounds like fun. People could list what they believe their strengths are and the judges could pair teams of two or three in a semi-random fashion.

My only worry is if people get paired with people who don't have the commitment to make the project or if the group can't settle on what kind of game to make.
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
*scribbles down notes about a Group Finder function for RMN*

"I'll be the writer!"
"I call scripter!"
"And you can have my Axe! And other database work!"
"I'm the healer. Who's got ranged DPS?"

Anywho,
I feel that this might be something targeted towards more of the experienced / veteran members of the site who have already finished a numerous amount of projects, maybe even creating some of their own resources for them, and are looking to earn some extra makerscore / do it for the challenge of it.
This is probably the more accurate statement about this idea. Might be reason enough to nix it and attempt something else...
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5331
author=Addit
It’s a good idea on paper, though, but I feel that this might be something targeted towards more of the experienced / veteran members of the site who have already finished a numerous amount of projects, maybe even creating some of their own resources for them, and are looking to earn some extra makerscore / do it for the challenge of it.


Yeah, I'm already going out of my comfort zone by TRYING to do gam mak. (Just don't have much to show for it yet because I'm going in backwards. >_> )
author=Jude
Wusses.


Easy enough for you to say, Mr. Necropolis.
FGSDFHGDFGS THAT'S INTERESTING.
I'd participate at least in the subevents, and this will promote enough feedback and motivation to actually finish the game! And a QUALITY one :D
(not some carolyne bullshit done for the sake of making a game and alleviating guilt)

I'd totes participate, I'm so up for this!
kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
20836
author=thatbennyguy
author=Jude
Wusses.
Easy enough for you to say, Mr. Necropolis.
That got me to thinking - how many games has Mr. Jude completed?
author=kentona
author=thatbennyguy
author=Jude
Wusses.
Easy enough for you to say, Mr. Necropolis.
That got me to thinking - how many games has Mr. Jude completed?

Maybe trying to get people out of their comfort zone of not completing games would be a good idea for an event!