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LIGHT, MEDIUM, AND HEAVY ARMOR: A CONUNDRUM
Posts
Crystalgate
694
Crystalgate
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CloseI think that in order to make different armors interesting, you must allow the player to somehow take advantage of it. Let's look at the standard example of light armor having less defense and more resistance than heavy armor. If it boils down to just luck who the enemies target, then it's not going to be very interesting. Sometimes you will be lucky and the enemies will hit whoever you want them to hit while other times they will hit someone who has the wrong armor type for that attack.
However, if the characters can use aggro moves, you can manipulate who the enemies will hit. Were you to encounter three physical enemies and one magical one, you could have a heavy armor user draw aggro while the rest start with attacking the mage and if you encounter the opposite, you also do the opposite.
You don't necessarily need an aggro system, but I do think that the key to making different armor types interesting is to allow the player to actively take advantage of the various bonuses and not just passively hope that things work out advantageously.
However, if the characters can use aggro moves, you can manipulate who the enemies will hit. Were you to encounter three physical enemies and one magical one, you could have a heavy armor user draw aggro while the rest start with attacking the mage and if you encounter the opposite, you also do the opposite.
You don't necessarily need an aggro system, but I do think that the key to making different armor types interesting is to allow the player to actively take advantage of the various bonuses and not just passively hope that things work out advantageously.
There's nothing wrong with an armor type being better. A character having access to the best armor is a part of their kit, often in lieu of other advantages.
Light armor tends to have high evade, elemental properties (elemental robes for instance), or magic def.
Medium armor is wearable by everyone, with some magic def/evade and some def.
Heavy armor has zero magic def/evade but a ton of conventional def. Heavy armor might also be subject to magnet status.
Medium armor is wearable by everyone, with some magic def/evade and some def.
Heavy armor has zero magic def/evade but a ton of conventional def. Heavy armor might also be subject to magnet status.
author=Desertopaauthor=Feldschlact IVDoes it follow from that that encasing yourself in a suit of metal armor will be extremely resistant to other people's magic? Does heavy armor let them tank spells as well as physical attacks?
Rys and Locke sort of got it right; in my game, metal is fundamentally resistant to magical forces, so anyone wearing a heavy metal armor, for instance, will have trouble concentrating their energies into a spell.
No, because metal itself isn't particularly resistant to magic, but metal interferes with the concentration of magic while it's being conjured; whether its the form of a spell being cast or someone's magical aura (i.e., their natural MDEF) forming up to resist a spell.
If that makes sense to you.
I never understood why robes resist magical attacks better than plate armour, if you fireballed a robe you would just burn.
I would think that atleast heavy armour you might get hot but the blast would scar against it and pass, rather than lighting you up.
I believe if you went against the standard set by all JRPGs before you can make it interesting.
I would think that atleast heavy armour you might get hot but the blast would scar against it and pass, rather than lighting you up.
I believe if you went against the standard set by all JRPGs before you can make it interesting.
author=Infect
I never understood why robes resist magical attacks better than plate armour, if you fireballed a robe you would just burn.
I would think that atleast heavy armour you might get hot but the blast would scar against it and pass, rather than lighting you up.
The lightweight material like cotton or other fabrics are easier to weave spells and enchantments in. Sometimes the fabric itself is made of 'magical' material.
I understand the concept of it, but couldn't armour just be as easily enchanted? Like in Skyrim for an example?
No.
Weaving spells into heavy armor requires a runemaster and a smith. The spells generally have to be branded on the armor. That is, if you want them to last, you enscribe marks.
Doing so on cloth just needs a weaver to follow instructions.
Weaving spells into heavy armor requires a runemaster and a smith. The spells generally have to be branded on the armor. That is, if you want them to last, you enscribe marks.
Doing so on cloth just needs a weaver to follow instructions.
Crystalgate
694
This is also why high end magical swords usually are made out of wood and other non metallic materials. Ignoring that, if metal truly is hard to enchant, I'd use leather rather than a robe. Assuming leather doesn't work either and you really need some cloth, I'd rather wear shirt and pants than an awkward robe. Robes must be the worst armor possible, soft and hinders movement at least five times as much as full plate. Well, a robe that leaves most of the leg uncovered could work though.
Trying to justify something will sometimes just cause the player to notice even more holes. When it comes to characters wearing awkward robes, you're probably better of not trying to justify it and hope the player doesn't care. This seems to be what most RPGs does.
Anyway, I earlier mentioned the payer being able to more actively take advantage of the armor. I figured out something else that may work. That would be if the enemy composition together with your armor setup changed how you have to approach battles. You encounter three physical enemies and the light armor wearing guys are now in danger while the heavy armor guys are pretty safe. Another time you encounter three magical enemies and now instead it's your heavy armor guys you have to watch.
Often the player simple heals whenever it feels it's time to do so. It's rather rare that the player is truly encouraged to pay attention to who has what defenses.
In any case, my feeling on this matter is that making different armor interesting is more a matter of how you balance them and if you have mechanics that supplement them rather than how creative you are. Still, creative is better than not creative.
Trying to justify something will sometimes just cause the player to notice even more holes. When it comes to characters wearing awkward robes, you're probably better of not trying to justify it and hope the player doesn't care. This seems to be what most RPGs does.
Anyway, I earlier mentioned the payer being able to more actively take advantage of the armor. I figured out something else that may work. That would be if the enemy composition together with your armor setup changed how you have to approach battles. You encounter three physical enemies and the light armor wearing guys are now in danger while the heavy armor guys are pretty safe. Another time you encounter three magical enemies and now instead it's your heavy armor guys you have to watch.
Often the player simple heals whenever it feels it's time to do so. It's rather rare that the player is truly encouraged to pay attention to who has what defenses.
In any case, my feeling on this matter is that making different armor interesting is more a matter of how you balance them and if you have mechanics that supplement them rather than how creative you are. Still, creative is better than not creative.
author=InfectionFiles
I believe if you went against the standard set by all JRPGs before you can make it interesting.
Yeah but the good thing about going with peoples' expectactions and the standards is that they will always expect that, and they won't be surprised by some random anomaly like "all of a sudden robes are not magical anymore" which makes them confused.
author=Crystalgate
Trying to justify something will sometimes just cause the player to notice even more holes. When it comes to characters wearing awkward robes, you're probably better of not trying to justify it and hope the player doesn't care. This seems to be what most RPGs does.
I agree with this, although I think it's less like "hope the player doesn't care" and more like "if the player cares, they don't matter". I'm a bit arrogant when it comes to the developer-player relationship, in that I think the player's opinion doesn't matter squat and the developer should know what the player needs rather than wants. They want everything to be uber-realistic, but when they get what they want, they realize it isn't what they need and they can't pinpoint why. That's the art of the developer - they know better than the player. Yeah, I'm arrogant that way.
Tom_Bombadil_
236
One idea that could work in a completely non-magical world is weight. Each piece of equipment has a set weight even weapons. Going over a certain weight range would decrease youn AGI and being under would increase it. So you could go with a light weapon and heavy armor or a heavy weapon and light armor and have the same speed value but if you went with heavy weapon and armor you would be tanky and hit hard but would be pentilized AGI and the same with if you went light armor light weapons you would end up being very fast.
Namagomi
66
Okay. A comparable lurker here, but I feel I might as well add my own commentary here.
On whether metal is harder to enchant, or vice versa: You're looking at a question of worldbuilding, not game design there. How magic works in your world is going to be up to you, if you wish to go into detail. However, keep in mind that once you establish rules for the universe's metaphysics, you're going to have to follow them most of the time, with room for one, maybe two justified exceptions if you can make them plot points.
Now, onto the question of the actual post. How to go about differentiating armor types: without knowledge of what your game is being made in, I can only make wide generalizations, but I will endeavor to give some examples of how you can vary equipment aside from the more standard "DEF/MDEF" or weight-based routes.
1: Elemental resistances. This is viable in RM in general, but more effective in VXA since you can specify numbers. You can largely leave it to the special equipment, or you can go out of your way to make it so all equipment has some form of general properties, such as the aforementioned fire/electricity weaknesses. Keep your equations in mind, however, and note that in RM, resistances are one of the things that are factored at the end of equations.
2: Extraneous stats. This is more of a RMVXA-specific factor, but if you want to use some of the EX or SP parameters, this is as good a place as any to use them if you don't want to limit them entirely to accessories. Say, heavy armor is more properly reinforced around the vital regions and thus gives critical hit resistance, or a certain robe has some sort of lattice worked in that makes casting more efficient, have it reduce the wearer's MP costs. This suit blends in with the terrain, person wearing it is less likely to be targeted. So on, so on. Use the rules of the world you set up to justify it if you need to. RMVXA gives a lot of properties to its user, and you're not going to run out soon--and even pre-VXA RM had enough options that you could have some side-benefits.
Regrettably, this is about the most I can say on the topic unless you can give more information about the game in question here. If you give more information on the game, its characters (thematically and mechanically), and possibly how things work in the world you've set up (you -have- gone through worldbuilding for your game, right?), I am certain that there will be more people willing to help you on the issue.
On whether metal is harder to enchant, or vice versa: You're looking at a question of worldbuilding, not game design there. How magic works in your world is going to be up to you, if you wish to go into detail. However, keep in mind that once you establish rules for the universe's metaphysics, you're going to have to follow them most of the time, with room for one, maybe two justified exceptions if you can make them plot points.
Now, onto the question of the actual post. How to go about differentiating armor types: without knowledge of what your game is being made in, I can only make wide generalizations, but I will endeavor to give some examples of how you can vary equipment aside from the more standard "DEF/MDEF" or weight-based routes.
1: Elemental resistances. This is viable in RM in general, but more effective in VXA since you can specify numbers. You can largely leave it to the special equipment, or you can go out of your way to make it so all equipment has some form of general properties, such as the aforementioned fire/electricity weaknesses. Keep your equations in mind, however, and note that in RM, resistances are one of the things that are factored at the end of equations.
2: Extraneous stats. This is more of a RMVXA-specific factor, but if you want to use some of the EX or SP parameters, this is as good a place as any to use them if you don't want to limit them entirely to accessories. Say, heavy armor is more properly reinforced around the vital regions and thus gives critical hit resistance, or a certain robe has some sort of lattice worked in that makes casting more efficient, have it reduce the wearer's MP costs. This suit blends in with the terrain, person wearing it is less likely to be targeted. So on, so on. Use the rules of the world you set up to justify it if you need to. RMVXA gives a lot of properties to its user, and you're not going to run out soon--and even pre-VXA RM had enough options that you could have some side-benefits.
Regrettably, this is about the most I can say on the topic unless you can give more information about the game in question here. If you give more information on the game, its characters (thematically and mechanically), and possibly how things work in the world you've set up (you -have- gone through worldbuilding for your game, right?), I am certain that there will be more people willing to help you on the issue.
