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IS THIS STORY TOO CLICHE?
Posts
Rose_Guardian
2346
Rose_Guardian
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CloseCool by the way I was thinking about this. I want to use this idea in my Eternal Destiny Remake that I will e doing in RMVX Ace instead. If anyone has played my VX version of Eternal Destiny feel free to help add to it if you want too.
author=Aegix_Drakan
Oh, by the way, just because someone might be able to predict your ending does NOT make your story bad.
Hell, in my first game on this site I EXPECT people to see where it's going. It should be very obvious where things are going, and most people do see it coming, and think it was great regardless.
^^^ This. ^^^
vvv Not this. vvv
author=Housekeeping
Yeah, it's reading to me like a cliche story about race relations using beast people as a metaphor for otherized groups, and it's taking the easy way out of a potentially difficult problem by adding monsters as a common enemy that, when confronted, will cause no moral conflicts. You might end up spinning it in a different direction than that, though.
Who wants a story where all the good guys get along? In fact, you can make the whole story about how the humans and beastfolk have to work together before they can save their worlds...and then have them not do a very good job of working together.
author=Liberty
Perhaps you follow different people, jumping each time a death occurs - from war orphan to lord knight to foot soldier to local gossip to leader of beasts to baby to love-lorn teen... all the way until the end of the war, watching it from their prospectives and seeing how it unfolds through various eyes.
Did you just suggest the RPG-fantasy-video game telling of Tolstoy's War and Peace?
Hey pianotm, what was so wrong about Housekeeping's statement? Or were you saying "not this" and agreeing with him?
author=pianotm
Did you just suggest the RPG-fantasy-video game telling of Tolstoy's War and Peace?
One of the few classics I've not read, I'm afraid. Basically just an idea I had for a game at one point, that never got created so I thought "Why not share?"
Had no idea War and Peace was written like that. XD
its hard to specify what is cliche in rpg's since their whole concept is that out of nowhere bad things happen and the world goes to hell BUT few chosen people save it just in time, about your concept though. It would be cool if you had interactions between the party and the beast world in terms of not just mentioning them, maybe some guild or a beast king helps you out on your quest (?) and maybe even include a beast party member. What im saying is that include something that does prove that is not just humans that is the major race (although it seems as an obvious feature) but mainly no, it doesnt sound cliche to me.
Desertopa
775
author=UberMedic7
its hard to specify what is cliche in rpg's since their whole concept is that out of nowhere bad things happen and the world goes to hell BUT few chosen people save it just in time
Just because a lot of RPGs follow this pattern doesn't mean that this is the basic concept of RPGs, or even that you have to follow any part of it. Really, in general, "out of nowhere" threats are probably more something to be avoided than employed with abandon.
of course not all RPG's are not like that. The pokemon games are RPG's and there's not a random world conflict that you stop (at least not in the most games :P) but since he will make a traditional one some elements are "common" but not cliche but i guess thats what makes RPG's good, the whole thing, the setting, the why and where and all that
Crystalgate
694
Wikipedia defined cliché as following: A cliché or cliche is an expression, idea, or element of an artistic work which has become overused to the point of losing its original meaning, or effect, and even, to the point of being trite or irritating, especially when at some earlier time it was considered meaningful or novel.
That seems about right. I can give an example, "the church is evil."
Having a plot twist where it turns out that the church is evil is a cliché. Very few will react with shock or outrage or anything like that. More likely they will react with a sigh. This does not mean that revealing that the church is evil is necessarily a bad device, you could in theory put an interesting twist to it. However, by itself that idea has lost the impact it originally may have had.
That seems about right. I can give an example, "the church is evil."
Having a plot twist where it turns out that the church is evil is a cliché. Very few will react with shock or outrage or anything like that. More likely they will react with a sigh. This does not mean that revealing that the church is evil is necessarily a bad device, you could in theory put an interesting twist to it. However, by itself that idea has lost the impact it originally may have had.
I like Crystalgate's/Wikipedia's definition. If something is used so much that it's lost it's power, then it makes it more difficult to have power. However, the reason why cliches were used so much in the first place is because they had power. So they should probably be used sparingly.
author=CashmereCat
Hey pianotm, what was so wrong about Housekeeping's statement? Or were you saying "not this" and agreeing with him?
There's nothing WRONG with it. I simply don't agree with his dismissal. There's so many ways that this story could be done in a very non-cliche way. Indeed, since it's a base plot, it may not even be eligible to be called a "cliche".
Rose_Guardian
2346
It's hard to think outside the box is the only problem. I try not to be too cliché with my stories but it is pretty hard not to be cliché. About the evil church thing, I personally liked Breath of Fire 2 that had a similar story line. However I do try to stay away from what is expected when I make games.
Desertopa
775
Breath of Fire II was the first game that made it stateside to employ that twist, if not the first out in Japan. Before that, using religious elements in that way was a big sticking point with censors, but it wasn't long before it started being copied excessively.
There are still ways to surprise an audience with a religion turning out to be evil, but you've got to be a *lot* trickier to pull that sort of thing off now.
There are still ways to surprise an audience with a religion turning out to be evil, but you've got to be a *lot* trickier to pull that sort of thing off now.
nurvuss
958
If I'm not mistaken I think Lunar 2 just baaaaarely beat Breath of Fire 2 to the punch. They both came out within a couple of months of each other and they both used that trope. They were both interesting takes--BoF2 had the more bizarre and disturbing stuff, but Lunar 2 had the better characterization and look at motivations.
But yeah, they were both copied verbatim for a long time afterwards, to varying degrees of success. Lightning Returns recently did it very poorly. Shin Megami Tensei 4 did a VERY interesting take on it, in which the the role usually played by the church in the series is performed by a Yakuza group... That's something to think about, actually--take a basic plot outline and replace one faction/party/character with a completely different one.
But yeah, they were both copied verbatim for a long time afterwards, to varying degrees of success. Lightning Returns recently did it very poorly. Shin Megami Tensei 4 did a VERY interesting take on it, in which the the role usually played by the church in the series is performed by a Yakuza group... That's something to think about, actually--take a basic plot outline and replace one faction/party/character with a completely different one.
I'm probably heading for a flamewar, but cliches are good. Game I am currently making, is cliche in some parts, but people who played it, enjoyed those at least as much as non-cliche parts of game.
Even most cliche stories, if told in interesting way can lead to great game. Just look at most notable JRPGS. They are full of cliches (Chrono Trigger may be an exception here, but even it has some cliche parts), yet people are enjoying these.
Most Elder Scrolls games are cliche as hell (especially Skyrim where you are basically the chosen one who only can stop dragons), yet people are enjoying these.
So yeah, cliches are good if used correctly, just make gameplay interesting (shoot outs/easter eggs can be good way to do this, and minigames of course).
Even most cliche stories, if told in interesting way can lead to great game. Just look at most notable JRPGS. They are full of cliches (Chrono Trigger may be an exception here, but even it has some cliche parts), yet people are enjoying these.
Most Elder Scrolls games are cliche as hell (especially Skyrim where you are basically the chosen one who only can stop dragons), yet people are enjoying these.
So yeah, cliches are good if used correctly, just make gameplay interesting (shoot outs/easter eggs can be good way to do this, and minigames of course).
@Rave I think you're right actually. Cliche doesn't have to be avoided like the plague. JRPGs use cliches all the time. A considerable portion of the audience may roll their eyes at this, but honestly I think JRPG-fans like cheesy stuff.
Rose_Guardian
2346
That's relief I just don't want to get too cliché then people would avoid my game completely if the story in the submission or topic sounds too cliché to them. Trust me I got no replies at one site after awhile and I mean no one even replied to the later games I posted there. That is why I am scared of being too cliché.
Maybe they didn't respond because they were too busy playing your game? Cheer up (and link to your previous games)!
I actually find poor game design to be more of a turn-off than cliches, honestly. If the game is fun and well-made, I can overlook the fact that I've seen most of the story elements before.
