IS THERE A WAY TO KNOW WHO SUBSCRIBES TO YOUR WORK?
Posts
My my...I think you might be a bit paranoid, Libby.
You describe your position as being from a place of safety, and it's something we've all gotten used to on the internet at large. Unless you're using your actual real-life name as your username, there's always a level of anonymity. No one knows anything about you beyond how you present yourself in your posts, and I can see why that's comforting. However, I don't think your fears are entirely founded.
Because the internet is inherently anonymous, things like subscriptions are just another way of expressing yourself. Similar to Likes on Facebook or Faves on dA, you're showing part of yourself through the action alone. Personally, I've never been fond of Likes and Faves; as a creator, I find them extremely hollow. With Watches (or subs, in this case), it's a different story. Anybody can click a button to Like something instantly, but to subscribe to something is to say "I'm interested enough in this thing to be notified of what it's doing." That's all that can truly be construed from it, but people read into these things all the time. It seems those assumptions are the basis of your aversion.
I'd like to say it gets better, but there's nothing that can be done to stop people from assuming things about you. Opinions are formed even just from things you post on the forum. Subs are more enigmatic because they could mean anything, but that's something creators need to learn to cope with. Admittedly, having them be anonymous makes that happen, since no other course of action is possible.
However, unlike your example of the divide between creators and their audience, we have a unique situation here where the two are united very closely. Anonymity may be the norm for the professional industries, but we have a community here, and I think knowing your subs could help foster that. Subs might make you feel obligated to post on game profiles, but that's something you have to come to terms with as a follower of those games. Really, no one's under any obligation to do anything around here. It's not like we're being paid. Creators and subscribers both need to recognize that, and it's much easier to do from behind the glass, but it's not impossible to achieve with the wall torn down. After all, you still get those invasive PMs on other sites, and it's not the end of the world there, right?{/armchair psychologist}
I guess my main beef with this whole thing is that's it's really not a big deal. GRS says we're proactively preventing the crime, but that's like...having police stationed to pick up litter. The consequences are minimal, but I guess the payoff is too. It's easiest to do nothing, so that's probably what'll happen.
You describe your position as being from a place of safety, and it's something we've all gotten used to on the internet at large. Unless you're using your actual real-life name as your username, there's always a level of anonymity. No one knows anything about you beyond how you present yourself in your posts, and I can see why that's comforting. However, I don't think your fears are entirely founded.
Because the internet is inherently anonymous, things like subscriptions are just another way of expressing yourself. Similar to Likes on Facebook or Faves on dA, you're showing part of yourself through the action alone. Personally, I've never been fond of Likes and Faves; as a creator, I find them extremely hollow. With Watches (or subs, in this case), it's a different story. Anybody can click a button to Like something instantly, but to subscribe to something is to say "I'm interested enough in this thing to be notified of what it's doing." That's all that can truly be construed from it, but people read into these things all the time. It seems those assumptions are the basis of your aversion.
I'd like to say it gets better, but there's nothing that can be done to stop people from assuming things about you. Opinions are formed even just from things you post on the forum. Subs are more enigmatic because they could mean anything, but that's something creators need to learn to cope with. Admittedly, having them be anonymous makes that happen, since no other course of action is possible.
However, unlike your example of the divide between creators and their audience, we have a unique situation here where the two are united very closely. Anonymity may be the norm for the professional industries, but we have a community here, and I think knowing your subs could help foster that. Subs might make you feel obligated to post on game profiles, but that's something you have to come to terms with as a follower of those games. Really, no one's under any obligation to do anything around here. It's not like we're being paid. Creators and subscribers both need to recognize that, and it's much easier to do from behind the glass, but it's not impossible to achieve with the wall torn down. After all, you still get those invasive PMs on other sites, and it's not the end of the world there, right?{/armchair psychologist}
I guess my main beef with this whole thing is that's it's really not a big deal. GRS says we're proactively preventing the crime, but that's like...having police stationed to pick up litter. The consequences are minimal, but I guess the payoff is too. It's easiest to do nothing, so that's probably what'll happen.
It's a bit belittling to dismiss someone's anxiety as paranoia, just saying. Everybody is afraid of being judged, some more so than others. If anonymity were removed, it wouldn't only be the subscribers who would feel such anxiety, but the developers as well. Creating games is stressful enough without worrying about why so-and-so unsubscribed after I posted the lastest screenshot. I have no interest in having my subscribers revealed to me.
To me, it boils down to this:
Should we keep anonymity to respect subscribers privacy and stave off potential drama?
OR
Should we remove it to satisfy the curiosity of developers and hopefully foster a stronger sense of community?
I think we already have a pretty strong community and a pretty decent well of drama, and matters of privacy trump matters of curiosity.
To me, it boils down to this:
Should we keep anonymity to respect subscribers privacy and stave off potential drama?
OR
Should we remove it to satisfy the curiosity of developers and hopefully foster a stronger sense of community?
I think we already have a pretty strong community and a pretty decent well of drama, and matters of privacy trump matters of curiosity.
from GoatBoyPersonal growth doesn't happen through hiding behind walls, just saying. If a developer is fretting over one lost sub, then they have something to learn. I don't mean to dismiss Libby's anxiety, nor will I pretend I know exactly what I'm talking about. This is just what makes the most sense to me.
It's a bit belittling to dismiss someone's anxiety as paranoia, just saying. Everybody is afraid of being judged, some more so than others.
Your boil down is pretty accurate. I feel like I have more to say, but I have no idea what at the moment.
The only reason I would ever want to know who's subscribed to me is out of morbid curiosity. Or if friends of mine were following and I could be buddy-buddy with them on blog updates or the like. Not really worth bothering with. Like kentona said, it should be for the follower's benefit.
Aside from that, the only reason I can think of for developers to see their subscribers is to advertize to them. Or even advertize them. And that's dumb. Go out and do the legwork yourself, I say.
Aside from that, the only reason I can think of for developers to see their subscribers is to advertize to them. Or even advertize them. And that's dumb. Go out and do the legwork yourself, I say.
It remains a matter of fact that people will make assumptions about their subscribers (as they do more than put a like .. although it really isn't that much more, technically, either). Especially those who would really want to know who's subscribing them. I'm a realist, and I know enough folks.
So paranoia is going a little overboard. Noone is saying how dreadful it is, either. Just not pleasant.
I just don't believe that subscribing equals saying "I'm into this game", and it shouldn't substitute that, either. If I really support a game, I'll say so myself. I think that staying anonymous actually encourages direct contact rather than letting a subscribe say it for them.
So paranoia is going a little overboard. Noone is saying how dreadful it is, either. Just not pleasant.
I just don't believe that subscribing equals saying "I'm into this game", and it shouldn't substitute that, either. If I really support a game, I'll say so myself. I think that staying anonymous actually encourages direct contact rather than letting a subscribe say it for them.
A user should have all the say in how much they want to engage in the community and a right to privacy. Subscribing isn't a means to engage the community, it's to follow a game. Again, if a user wants to get involved they can do what we're doing and write a post and hit submit, or submit a review, or post some media, or PM the creator. If they just want to follow games that is a perfectly acceptable thing to do on RMN and the site isn't going to compromise their desired usage.
from GreatRedSpiritOh, please. You make it sound like they'd be getting more than they bargained for.
A user should have all the say in how much they want to engage in the community and a right to privacy. Subscribing isn't a means to engage the community, it's to follow a game.
I'm trying to see this from both sides, and the whole thing looks pretty ridiculous. For those who want to know, it's curiosity alone. The info is useless to them. Even if they wanted to contact these people, they could do so with a single blog post. On the flip side, the subs who want to remain anonymous feel that way for no reason. They have nothing to lose, whether they realize it or not.
This is a public forum. Everything you post on here can be viewed by literally anyone. How is subscribing different from any other action you take on this site? You're still putting your name out there. You're showing your opinions, people are reading them, and they're judging you for it. Even our lockers aren't private. It's not like your interests are something to be ashamed of. You post on the forums and talk about the games you love, but for people to see the list of things you follow here? Oh, damn. I don't want Craze to know I like Pom Gets Wi-Fi.
Personally, I'd like to see the veil lifted just so the people who can't take it go scurrying while the ones who stay learn to be comfortable with their choices. Which, I'd like to reiterate, are completely meaningless. They have no importance or relevance to anything, and any social obligations felt are subjective to your culture or self-imposed.
The fear is irrational. The curiosity is also irrational, but at least it isn't based in something potentially limiting on an individual level. This whole thing is incredibly silly.
author=halibabica
Oh, please. You make it sound like they'd be getting more than they bargained for.
I'm trying to see this from both sides, and the whole thing looks pretty ridiculous. For those who want to know, it's curiosity alone. The info is useless to them. Even if they wanted to contact these people, they could do so with a single blog post. On the flip side, the subs who want to remain anonymous feel that way for no reason. They have nothing to lose, whether they realize it or not.
This is a public forum. Everything you post on here can be viewed by literally anyone. How is subscribing different from any other action you take on this site? You're still putting your name out there. You're showing your opinions, people are reading them, and they're judging you for it. Even our lockers aren't private. It's not like your interests are something to be ashamed of. You post on the forums and talk about the games you love, but for people to see the list of things you follow here? Oh, damn. I don't want Craze to know I like Pom Gets Wi-Fi.
Personally, I'd like to see the veil lifted just so the people who can't take it go scurrying while the ones who stay learn to be comfortable with their choices. Which, I'd like to reiterate, are completely meaningless. They have no importance or relevance to anything, and any social obligations felt are subjective to your culture or self-imposed.
The fear is irrational. The curiosity is also irrational, but at least it isn't based in something potentially limiting on an individual level. This whole thing is incredibly silly.
please put some effort into your next concern trolling this one is way too obvious tia
Trolling? A little, I guess. I wouldn't post it if I didn't think it.
ARE YOU JUDGING ME GRS
I CAN'T HANDLE THAT I'M OUT
ARE YOU JUDGING ME GRS
I CAN'T HANDLE THAT I'M OUT
Calling bullshit. You posted that anything you post can be viewed by literally everyone on a site with:
- PMs
- Private game profiles, a previously used means to coordinate game design. Even handier is that you can 'delete' a blog used for developers to communicate so you can use the same gameprofile when you release the game and not show how two team members submitted 75% of the levels.
- Private locker files. There isn't even a moment of public access nowadays since you can upload files and be immediately marked as private.
I know you've used at least two of them and don't know the third (because surprise it is private) so the whole post is just full of troll shit said. The only thing worth spit was that people can use the time honored tradition of posting blogs to communicate with their subscribers which is even better than directly communicating with them because it can draw a greater audience.
Oh yeah, disclaimer: I opted out of being on the list of online users because when I'm on or not is nobody's damn business. You know I'm on if I post. Much like game subscriptions!
e: Removed something because private
- PMs
- Private game profiles, a previously used means to coordinate game design. Even handier is that you can 'delete' a blog used for developers to communicate so you can use the same gameprofile when you release the game and not show how two team members submitted 75% of the levels.
- Private locker files. There isn't even a moment of public access nowadays since you can upload files and be immediately marked as private.
I know you've used at least two of them and don't know the third (because surprise it is private) so the whole post is just full of troll shit said. The only thing worth spit was that people can use the time honored tradition of posting blogs to communicate with their subscribers which is even better than directly communicating with them because it can draw a greater audience.
Oh yeah, disclaimer: I opted out of being on the list of online users because when I'm on or not is nobody's damn business. You know I'm on if I post. Much like game subscriptions!
e: Removed something because private
lol The solution to this 'problem' (like with every other topic of this nature) was suggested from moment one, but it was not even given the time of the day. I can't really blame anyone, though. I guess it's way more fun to argue the more radical aspects of any idea... But to reiterate: Allow people to check a box to remain anonymous if they so desire, and let the rest satisfy their curiosity in peace. It's -exactly- like with the option to see who it's currently reading the forums. People didn't want that either, but it was done nonetheless, and the site didn't crumble under it's own weight. All some of us had to do was check a box and the world kept on spinning as usual.
About it not being 'important' information and whatnot; sure, but so is every monthly stat topic. Who the hell cares who has the longest post-count in any give month, anyway? ...Uh. You all do, apparently. So I guess you can also understand why knowing who subscribes to what games is information that some people may want to know. Information some may even find useful. Because there's nothing stopping this from being in benefit of both subscriber AND developer - nothing but our own prejudices, of course.
Edit: In, out, both are the same thing for all intents an purposes. But if the principle matters that much, sure. Opt-out anonymity then.
About it not being 'important' information and whatnot; sure, but so is every monthly stat topic. Who the hell cares who has the longest post-count in any give month, anyway? ...Uh. You all do, apparently. So I guess you can also understand why knowing who subscribes to what games is information that some people may want to know. Information some may even find useful. Because there's nothing stopping this from being in benefit of both subscriber AND developer - nothing but our own prejudices, of course.
Edit: In, out, both are the same thing for all intents an purposes. But if the principle matters that much, sure. Opt-out anonymity then.
Opt in anonymity is dumb, especially for a mechanism whose predecessor was entirely anonymous. I oppose anything less than opt out anonymity.
Okay, so I didn't think that one through. I still think it's not a big deal, and any anxiety people feel about their anonymity being violated is groundless. Also, alterego does have a good point there about allowing people to choose. You said yourself you choose to hide your online status. There's no reason that suggestion wouldn't work, unless it's too hard to implement for some reason (that's ankylo's territory).
Nah, I'm fine with the choice as long as its opt out anonymity / the default being anonymous and the user has to go and enable their subscriptions being visible to who they're subscribed to or others or whatever. As long as the user can decide how they engage in the community and default settings are for promoting anonymity on the internet and protection of their privacy I'm fine with it.
Wow, this topic evolved from a newbie (me...) wanting to thank his few subscribers to anxiety and privacy issues of all members.
N-Not that they're bad in any way, but...
N-Not that they're bad in any way, but...
Don't fret about it. RMN allows people to speak their mind on things like this as long as it doesn't get ugly... and we've quite a few people with a lot of differing opinions on things so discussions are par for the course. ^.^
Heh, Yeah I noticed that after some time poking around in the forums.
As for what they're already discussing...
I think it would be better to have an 'Opt-out of anonymity' option only when you subscribe. Having to set them as a Subscriptions Setting would be bad. If this is done, all of your subscriptions are globally affected, and in no way will you be anonymous anymore, unless you change the settings. Having them to pop on every case of subscription is far more convenient and allows for more flexibility on the part of the user.
Just my thoughts on this...
As for what they're already discussing...
I think it would be better to have an 'Opt-out of anonymity' option only when you subscribe. Having to set them as a Subscriptions Setting would be bad. If this is done, all of your subscriptions are globally affected, and in no way will you be anonymous anymore, unless you change the settings. Having them to pop on every case of subscription is far more convenient and allows for more flexibility on the part of the user.
Just my thoughts on this...
I could probably guess at least on a couple of the people who have subscribed to my games based on them commenting on my game pages, but you can never be fully sure.
I think if we had this system some people would only look out of curiosity, but there are always those who will take it too far.
I would probably unsubscribe to everything with this kind of system.
I'm sure that not all developers are incessant inbreds, kory.
Nonetheless, they're out there. Ah the inconveniences of life...
Nonetheless, they're out there. Ah the inconveniences of life...
from kory_toombs
I would probably unsubscribe to everything with thios kind of system.
See, it's this attitude that I really don't get. What could possibly be the harm? Do you distrust the community so much that you'd wash your hands of all of them rather than chance that one might be immature? How come you don't feel this way about other aspects of the site? I know there are hardcore lurkers out there who never say a word about anything, but that's an extreme perspective too (depending on their reasons, I guess). I just don't understand the concern. It's not like this information can be used to hurt you. You could reveal more detrimental things about yourself just posting on the forum.



















