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WHAT MAKES A GOOD MMORPG?
Posts
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
LockeZ
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Closeauthor=Ratty524Because to keep the game massively multiplayer, they need a lot of people to keep playing for a long time. And to do that, they need a shit-ton of stuff for those people to do. They can either release a new dungeon every week or they can make you do the same dungeon fifteen times. Obviously, only one of those two options is actually physically possible.
Why does almost every MMORPG have to have loads and loads of grinding?
Also, even if you ignore the ridiculous strain on developers and poor quality that would result from making new content that often, the grinding also makes it far easier for people to find groups. It's far easier to team up with other people when everyone is doing the same thing. And there will be many more people doing the same thing at the same time when everyone has five things they need to do twenty times each, than there would be if everyone had thirty things they needed to do once each.
If someone could come up with a way to make an MMORPG that didn't require you to do stuff more than once, and solved these problems a different way, they would probably make a huge pile of money.
eplipswich
2728
The key elements to making a MMORPG successful are its replayability and elements that encourage interaction between players (such as raids, battles requiring teamwork etc.). The latter is especially important because if a player can do everything by himself in an MMORPG, then the player will become bored fast and it really shouldn't be called an MMORPG. IMHO, I think levelling in an MMORPG should involve mostly teamwork rather than solo.
And one thing I don't like about most MMORPGs is that they tend to cater to mostly high-level players and neglect the low-level players as new versions of the MMORPGs come in. That only discourages new players from playing the MMORPGs in the long run.
And one thing I don't like about most MMORPGs is that they tend to cater to mostly high-level players and neglect the low-level players as new versions of the MMORPGs come in. That only discourages new players from playing the MMORPGs in the long run.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
I'll have to respectfully disagree because the two games I've played that focused on leveling strictly in a group (FFXI/GW) were, in turn, more trouble to play on a consistent, daily basis as you're bound to have more downtime looking for a competent, committed group instead of actually playing.
There needs to be a middle ground like in games such as WoW, where there are plenty of activities to do in a group (instances for example) but there are also countless opportunities to be self-reliant when questing in any specific zone.
There needs to be a middle ground like in games such as WoW, where there are plenty of activities to do in a group (instances for example) but there are also countless opportunities to be self-reliant when questing in any specific zone.
RyaReisender
200
Honestly I'm surprised how little "roguelike" MMORPGs there are, because randomly generated content seems perfect for keeping replayability high.
Why grinding is needed? Mostly because players tend to get bored if can't gain exp anymore. So the game needs to be designed so that nobody ever reaches max level.
But it's more like LockeZ said a question on how fast the developer adds new content. It's simply not possible for developers to add content as fast as players play it.
You don't understand the appeal of grinding? I'm not sure if you ever did it to the extreme, because it's something that you have to experience yourself. Y'know I never understood those people that grinded for a rare 0.01% drop either, I always just leveled up where I wanted to be and then just bought the items I needed instead of hunting them. The idea of fighting the same monster 5000-50000 times didn't really appeal to me. Until I actually did it. Of course doing it in itself is pure torture. I woke up at 8am and then fought the same monster until 10pm and then went to bed again for a whole week. I was about to give up for good, but then I finally got the item I wanted. And man, that felt so great, it's probably one of the best feelings a human can have at all.
Once you felt it once, it's much easier to do it again and you will understand it better why people do it.
In a way it's kind of like finishing the game you work on if you lost motivation mid-way and still forced you to finish it. The feeling of having a finished product in the end is very awesome and very similar to finding a rare drop you worked for hard.
Why grinding is needed? Mostly because players tend to get bored if can't gain exp anymore. So the game needs to be designed so that nobody ever reaches max level.
But it's more like LockeZ said a question on how fast the developer adds new content. It's simply not possible for developers to add content as fast as players play it.
You don't understand the appeal of grinding? I'm not sure if you ever did it to the extreme, because it's something that you have to experience yourself. Y'know I never understood those people that grinded for a rare 0.01% drop either, I always just leveled up where I wanted to be and then just bought the items I needed instead of hunting them. The idea of fighting the same monster 5000-50000 times didn't really appeal to me. Until I actually did it. Of course doing it in itself is pure torture. I woke up at 8am and then fought the same monster until 10pm and then went to bed again for a whole week. I was about to give up for good, but then I finally got the item I wanted. And man, that felt so great, it's probably one of the best feelings a human can have at all.
Once you felt it once, it's much easier to do it again and you will understand it better why people do it.
In a way it's kind of like finishing the game you work on if you lost motivation mid-way and still forced you to finish it. The feeling of having a finished product in the end is very awesome and very similar to finding a rare drop you worked for hard.
Well~ 50% of the joy lies in the music you have running in the background, and 50% lies in the people you talk with while you're at it. That's why grinding's possible.
I was quite a power-leveler and farmer myself .. it's not too bad. Although I've always prefered to farm large quantities of semi-rare stuff rather than super-rare stuff. My video game luck has been fatally low. That makes it actually quite bearable and predictable.
MMOs are meant to be timesinks with enough stuff to do and collect, nothing more. The joy comes from the people and what you make of it.
Still, it's annoying when you need huge groups to do anything at all.
It's one of the reasons I enjoyed diablo 2 so very very much, you could do literally anything with 2 people. But that's not quite the MMO.
WoW has a pretty middle-ground, and at least you can level alone, but that makes playing together while leveling pretty useless and annoying, since you basically just do the exact same of whatever you would do anyway. Leveling alone is easier and faster, so why do it?
I was quite a power-leveler and farmer myself .. it's not too bad. Although I've always prefered to farm large quantities of semi-rare stuff rather than super-rare stuff. My video game luck has been fatally low. That makes it actually quite bearable and predictable.
MMOs are meant to be timesinks with enough stuff to do and collect, nothing more. The joy comes from the people and what you make of it.
Still, it's annoying when you need huge groups to do anything at all.
It's one of the reasons I enjoyed diablo 2 so very very much, you could do literally anything with 2 people. But that's not quite the MMO.
WoW has a pretty middle-ground, and at least you can level alone, but that makes playing together while leveling pretty useless and annoying, since you basically just do the exact same of whatever you would do anyway. Leveling alone is easier and faster, so why do it?
RyaReisender
200
As someone who has a good friend to play MMORPGs with, I must say that I have to agree that the flaw of many MMORPGs is that they just don't work for 2 players. Solo regions are too easy and group instances are too hard with a 2 player party in most MMORPGs.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=RyaReisender
You don't understand the appeal of grinding? I'm not sure if you ever did it to the extreme, because it's something that you have to experience yourself. Y'know I never understood those people that grinded for a rare 0.01% drop either, I always just leveled up where I wanted to be and then just bought the items I needed instead of hunting them. The idea of fighting the same monster 5000-50000 times didn't really appeal to me. Until I actually did it. Of course doing it in itself is pure torture. I woke up at 8am and then fought the same monster until 10pm and then went to bed again for a whole week. I was about to give up for good, but then I finally got the item I wanted. And man, that felt so great, it's probably one of the best feelings a human can have at all.
What game was this? The only time I've done something like this was when I was running Sunken Temple and Strat for a Dragon's Call and Rivendare's Deathcharger Reins respectively. Both times were incredible, but I couldn't see myself sitting around that long for a single item. If my chances aren't at least 1%, I'm not going for it no matter what the item is.
author=RyaReisenderI've EV trained, IV bred, and even just played Pokemon normally, in addition to getting through most of Hydlide and Dragon Warrior. I've definitely grinded before and I know how it feels.
You don't understand the appeal of grinding? I'm not sure if you ever did it to the extreme, because it's something that you have to experience yourself. Y'know I never understood those people that grinded for a rare 0.01% drop either, I always just leveled up where I wanted to be and then just bought the items I needed instead of hunting them. The idea of fighting the same monster 5000-50000 times didn't really appeal to me. Until I actually did it. Of course doing it in itself is pure torture. I woke up at 8am and then fought the same monster until 10pm and then went to bed again for a whole week. I was about to give up for good, but then I finally got the item I wanted. And man, that felt so great, it's probably one of the best feelings a human can have at all.
Once you felt it once, it's much easier to do it again and you will understand it better why people do it.
In a way it's kind of like finishing the game you work on if you lost motivation mid-way and still forced you to finish it. The feeling of having a finished product in the end is very awesome and very similar to finding a rare drop you worked for hard.
I fully see where you are coming from with the feeling of satisfaction after all your hours, but to that, I have to ask whether the process of doing a monotonous task for hours just to get a desired result feels like work rather than something that's fun? The same logic can almost be applied to a household chore: You have to spend time washing and folding all of the clothes in your laundry, but at least you'll be rewarded with clean clothes and some allowance money in the end, right? Puh-lease...
That's exactly it. It gives the illusion about hard work getting done.
It's perhaps easier to start, you can chat and listen to music easily while you're at it, but it is actually futile work and the same joy could be had elsewhere.
It's perhaps easier to start, you can chat and listen to music easily while you're at it, but it is actually futile work and the same joy could be had elsewhere.
RyaReisender
200
It definitely feels like work.
But getting a rare item that you can actually use (aka is part of your perfect final build) or makes you rich (in your virtual life) feels a lot more rewarding than knowing that you got the household done for the day.
But getting a rare item that you can actually use (aka is part of your perfect final build) or makes you rich (in your virtual life) feels a lot more rewarding than knowing that you got the household done for the day.
Yeah, because these are repetitious task. Good old Sisyphus knows what we're talking about.
But getting a project done or so would be more fitting - and still feels awesome. Just doing any work, actually. It feels ways good to know that you can get something done.
It's fairly similar.
But getting a project done or so would be more fitting - and still feels awesome. Just doing any work, actually. It feels ways good to know that you can get something done.
It's fairly similar.
Nivlacart
1571
Rather than grinding long to achieve a large reward result, I'd much rather have the feeling of constantly improving bit by bit.
Rather, when I know I have to spend time on a task over and over again just to get one meagre reward, I get intimidated. Sure, I'll get it in the end. Celebrate for awhile, then it becomes the norm. Then the next time I have to grind, I'll just eventually learn that it isn't worth the long investment just for the small happiness. Then I'll just get bored as the grind gets bigger. Then I'll just drop the MMO.
I suppose it's an advantage that some shooters, like S4 League, have over MMORPGs. They give you the opportunity to feel your own improvement, and that in itself is rewarding, compared some material good like a bribe.
Rather, when I know I have to spend time on a task over and over again just to get one meagre reward, I get intimidated. Sure, I'll get it in the end. Celebrate for awhile, then it becomes the norm. Then the next time I have to grind, I'll just eventually learn that it isn't worth the long investment just for the small happiness. Then I'll just get bored as the grind gets bigger. Then I'll just drop the MMO.
I suppose it's an advantage that some shooters, like S4 League, have over MMORPGs. They give you the opportunity to feel your own improvement, and that in itself is rewarding, compared some material good like a bribe.
