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BansheeSerenade
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CloseI realise that I'm very new here, and the last thing I want is to 'rock the boat' and spark some kind of great controversy. It's just, I noticed that with the gender options we have "male", "female" and "welp". The inclusion of welp confuses me, and honestly slightly offends me. My understanding is that welp implies a hesitance to reveal their gender? If I have that wrong, please forgive me.
However, if somebody was hesitant to reveal their gender, there should be an option for them simply to not share that information. As a transgender woman, I'm a little offended that "welp" has been offered as an option while options such as "transgender" "transexual" "intersex" "m2f" "f2m" heck, even just "other" have been ignored.
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post my concerns, but I just wanted to put this out there. I'm moreso looking out for those who are more sensitive about this topic than myself. For a lot of people, this is a huge issue, and the option of "welp" can be viewed as highly insensitive.
So, yeah, enjoy that can of worms I just opened, haha.
/endrant
However, if somebody was hesitant to reveal their gender, there should be an option for them simply to not share that information. As a transgender woman, I'm a little offended that "welp" has been offered as an option while options such as "transgender" "transexual" "intersex" "m2f" "f2m" heck, even just "other" have been ignored.
I'm not sure if this is the correct place to post my concerns, but I just wanted to put this out there. I'm moreso looking out for those who are more sensitive about this topic than myself. For a lot of people, this is a huge issue, and the option of "welp" can be viewed as highly insensitive.
So, yeah, enjoy that can of worms I just opened, haha.
/endrant
You haven't opened a can of worms. We're actually having this discussion on various threads. The purpose of Welp is, in fact, for people who don't want to reveal their gender. You guessed it. As for transgender, I don't think that ever crossed the moderator's minds. I've sure never seen it brought up. I know why Welp is there and agree %100. I'll let someone who is more qualified explain it.
I'm just a member. I have no control over it. I don't see Kentona getting rid of the "Welp" option any time soon, but for the transgender option, you can certainly address that concern. This is really what feedback forums are for.
I'm just a member. I have no control over it. I don't see Kentona getting rid of the "Welp" option any time soon, but for the transgender option, you can certainly address that concern. This is really what feedback forums are for.
Oh, well good to know I'm not stepping on any toes :P haha
Do you think you'd be able to link me to some of those threads? I'd love to check them out.
Do you think you'd be able to link me to some of those threads? I'd love to check them out.
The term "welp" is an in joke on the forums from ages back. I didn't even know it was a gender option.
But yeah, an option for transgender peeps would help mitigate any problems. Just PM Liberty or kentona about it and I'm sure it'll be taken into account.
But yeah, an option for transgender peeps would help mitigate any problems. Just PM Liberty or kentona about it and I'm sure it'll be taken into account.
I'll have to hunt. There are no dedicated threads...it just comes up...in fact, there's a GamerGate status. Something like "I'd identify as a gamer, but I don't hate women." It's off the board now, but it should only be a few down from the top five if you view all statuses. I think a few people brought up "Welp" in that status and that GamerGate defined why they were so glad it was there. Liberty has a pretty good rant in that thread too. Worth reading. Let me grab the link.
Click here.
Click here.
Honestly, I doubt it was considered when the site was originally set up. The inclusion of Welp was and is an in-joke from waaaaay back and is for those who want to keep quiet about their gender (or not care) to use as an alternative. That said, we don't mind if you identify as either gender no matter what gender society paints you as. We have women who use the male option and I'm sure vice versa without issue.
I don't know that we have any trans- or other people currently on the site (or have in the past), it's not really something that gets brought up. I do know we've have and have had homosexual, asexual, bisexual (myself in this group) and other-sexual people who frequent the site and it's not an issue as we welcome anyone when it comes to creating, playing and discussing games.
I don't know if kentona would add another 'gender' for trans - since if you identify as male, no matter what, you can choose male. Vice versa if you identify as female or non-binary (using female or welp, respectively) - though he might if it's something people would like to see added to the site. ^.^
I don't know that we have any trans- or other people currently on the site (or have in the past), it's not really something that gets brought up. I do know we've have and have had homosexual, asexual, bisexual (myself in this group) and other-sexual people who frequent the site and it's not an issue as we welcome anyone when it comes to creating, playing and discussing games.
I don't know if kentona would add another 'gender' for trans - since if you identify as male, no matter what, you can choose male. Vice versa if you identify as female or non-binary (using female or welp, respectively) - though he might if it's something people would like to see added to the site. ^.^
I'll admit, when I saw this thread title, I came in prepared to have a discussion about the benefits and drawbacks of giving the player the option of what gender their main character is in a game.
That might still make an interesting topic.
That might still make an interesting topic.
Why not change the gender option to another text box so people can put whatever they wish? It'd probably make more people happier in the long run anyways and save time having to add new options every so often.
@Pianotm I'll admit I wasn't even aware of gamergate until last night when I came across an article about them doxxing Felicia Day (also hadn't heard of doxxing before last night :P ). They're pretty twisted :/ That link was an interesting read, thanks!
@Liberty Thanks for the reply. I didn't think there was any malicious intent behind the exclusion, it's something that people don't really think about. Which is both good and bad. Good, that people see it as a non-issue, but also bad because it very much IS an issue. Some people just aren't sure what to put if there isn't a third option. I'm not sure about other countries, but Australia has just started introducing the 'other' gender option, and it's been a great help. Like, biologically I'm male, so it would be considered fraud to state that I am a woman on legal documentation. However, I'm not comfortable selecting the male option. So, while I can see that it's a harmless oversight, I very much believe that the addition of an "other" option would be inclusive at the very least. And if you guys are as accepting as you so, adding the option should really be a non-issue, no? ;) haha
@Sailerius if you start a discussion on that, I'll be sure to pitch in my two cents!
@Liberty Thanks for the reply. I didn't think there was any malicious intent behind the exclusion, it's something that people don't really think about. Which is both good and bad. Good, that people see it as a non-issue, but also bad because it very much IS an issue. Some people just aren't sure what to put if there isn't a third option. I'm not sure about other countries, but Australia has just started introducing the 'other' gender option, and it's been a great help. Like, biologically I'm male, so it would be considered fraud to state that I am a woman on legal documentation. However, I'm not comfortable selecting the male option. So, while I can see that it's a harmless oversight, I very much believe that the addition of an "other" option would be inclusive at the very least. And if you guys are as accepting as you so, adding the option should really be a non-issue, no? ;) haha
@Sailerius if you start a discussion on that, I'll be sure to pitch in my two cents!
author=Zeigfried_McBacon
Why not change the gender option to another text box so people can put whatever they wish? It'd probably make more people happier in the long run anyways and save time having to add new options every so often.
I'm looking forward to all the Banana gendered people joining! :DDD
(Do this kentona and I promise to change mine to banana) ^.^
Also, yay, another Aussie~ We're slowly taking over the site~ :DDD
But yeah, at the moment Welp is our reflavoured Other (and has been from the start). It might be changed in the future, though. We'll see what kentona says about it when he pops in on the issue.
It's chauvanism and stalking. Nobody, but nobody deserves to be treated like this...not even the scumbags doing it. Love is the law.
Go All Blacks! :D
To be honest, of all my years in the Rpg Maker communities I don't think I've ever seen this discussed as oddly enough gender, race or sexual orientation just don't seem to come up within these communities. Well that's not completely true I've seen discussions on the sexual orientation of characters in peoples games but other than that, these kinds sites just done necessarily bring up issues like this.
I too am a banana! We shall peel back the world & show its true colors
To be honest, of all my years in the Rpg Maker communities I don't think I've ever seen this discussed as oddly enough gender, race or sexual orientation just don't seem to come up within these communities. Well that's not completely true I've seen discussions on the sexual orientation of characters in peoples games but other than that, these kinds sites just done necessarily bring up issues like this.
I too am a banana! We shall peel back the world & show its true colors
^^ this,
well actually apart from the All Blacks...and erm, I don't actually like bananas can I be a grapefruit?
I've participated in discussion about in-game gender stereotypes and type casting, talked about the introduction of non-gendered characters and the reactions to them, engaged in a few heated debates about the role and role reversal dynamic and made a few pointed remarks about equality and the removal of as many -isms as is possible within a game set within a fictional but based on a historical framework. That's all been in-game though. Discussions about gender and gender issues in relation to us, the users is rare to the point that I can't remember the last time I had one, certainly not here.
I'm not opposed to it, discussion is always to be encouraged but I think the fact in the numerous years I've been here that I've never seen this raised actually says a lot about the fact that it's not that we are 'tolerant' or 'open-minded' or any other lovely trite phrase, it's just that by and large I believe we really don't see it as relevant to the point of this site, which is about the games. As I said in that gamergate thing, games don't have a gender, why should the gender spectrum of the player, developer or anyone one involved with it matter to anyone else?
If it does, if the gender choice of the person involved in the making a piece of entertainment adversely affects your enjoyment of that entertainment, you're doing it wrong.
Still it's an easy fix to make someone new feel as welcome as we can, and it more than likely applies to a number of the people who frequent this site, so I say all power to you.
Personally I'm sticking with Welp, unless I can have grapefruit.
well actually apart from the All Blacks...and erm, I don't actually like bananas can I be a grapefruit?
I've participated in discussion about in-game gender stereotypes and type casting, talked about the introduction of non-gendered characters and the reactions to them, engaged in a few heated debates about the role and role reversal dynamic and made a few pointed remarks about equality and the removal of as many -isms as is possible within a game set within a fictional but based on a historical framework. That's all been in-game though. Discussions about gender and gender issues in relation to us, the users is rare to the point that I can't remember the last time I had one, certainly not here.
I'm not opposed to it, discussion is always to be encouraged but I think the fact in the numerous years I've been here that I've never seen this raised actually says a lot about the fact that it's not that we are 'tolerant' or 'open-minded' or any other lovely trite phrase, it's just that by and large I believe we really don't see it as relevant to the point of this site, which is about the games. As I said in that gamergate thing, games don't have a gender, why should the gender spectrum of the player, developer or anyone one involved with it matter to anyone else?
If it does, if the gender choice of the person involved in the making a piece of entertainment adversely affects your enjoyment of that entertainment, you're doing it wrong.
Still it's an easy fix to make someone new feel as welcome as we can, and it more than likely applies to a number of the people who frequent this site, so I say all power to you.
Personally I'm sticking with Welp, unless I can have grapefruit.
Fruit Salad!
Well, no a fruit salad of bananas and grapefruit would fail, I wouldn't eat it because I don't like bananas and Liberty wouldn't eat it because she doesn't like grapefruit...not sure about Tau.
Seriously if digression was an Olympic sport I'd win the gold.
Well, no a fruit salad of bananas and grapefruit would fail, I wouldn't eat it because I don't like bananas and Liberty wouldn't eat it because she doesn't like grapefruit...not sure about Tau.
Seriously if digression was an Olympic sport I'd win the gold.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
There are neither men nor women on internet forums. Only text and avatars.
On a more serious note: I thought the whole idea of forums like this was so that you don't HAVE to deal with gender issues? There are no laws here regarding gender fraud, so choose what gender you identify yourself as and not worry too much about it. If you identify yourself as male, choose male. If you identify yourself as female, choose female. If you're not comfortable with revealing what you idenfity yourself as, choose Welp.
Then again, I am a privileged white cis male. As part of the patriarchy, I have no concept of the struggles of others and therefore have no right to have an opinion on them. At least that what all the radicals tell me.
Also, holy hell, Gamergate doxxed Felicia Day because she said a few words of encouragement to a harassment victim? Damn, Gamergate is the PETA of video games!
EDIT: More on topic, I'm with the idea of having the gender selection changed to a textbox, so anyone can put in what they want. I could have sworn when I joined a year ago there WAS a textbox, though... Of course, I have the average memory span of a goldfish, so my recollection isn't the best thing to go on...
On a more serious note: I thought the whole idea of forums like this was so that you don't HAVE to deal with gender issues? There are no laws here regarding gender fraud, so choose what gender you identify yourself as and not worry too much about it. If you identify yourself as male, choose male. If you identify yourself as female, choose female. If you're not comfortable with revealing what you idenfity yourself as, choose Welp.
Then again, I am a privileged white cis male. As part of the patriarchy, I have no concept of the struggles of others and therefore have no right to have an opinion on them. At least that what all the radicals tell me.
Also, holy hell, Gamergate doxxed Felicia Day because she said a few words of encouragement to a harassment victim? Damn, Gamergate is the PETA of video games!
EDIT: More on topic, I'm with the idea of having the gender selection changed to a textbox, so anyone can put in what they want. I could have sworn when I joined a year ago there WAS a textbox, though... Of course, I have the average memory span of a goldfish, so my recollection isn't the best thing to go on...
