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FAN GAMES: WELCOME OR FROWNED UPON?
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BansheeSerenade
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CloseI apologise if I'm posting too much, I'm just really interested in everybody's opinions on things!
So, as a community are fan games more often welcome or are they typically kind of taboo? I'd assume the latter, since I find fan games often to lack much imagination or effort - however, there are hidden gems out there and I'd hate to think that they're ignored simply because they're a fan game.
So, as a community are fan games more often welcome or are they typically kind of taboo? I'd assume the latter, since I find fan games often to lack much imagination or effort - however, there are hidden gems out there and I'd hate to think that they're ignored simply because they're a fan game.
eplipswich
2728
I'm not sure where you get the idea that fan games can be frowned upon, but I certainly don't mind fan games as long as they are of decent quality.
In fact, there are quite a number of good fan games released such as Final Fantasy Dreams, Final Fantasy: Endless Nova and Final Fantasy: Blackmoon Prophecy (this one especially is pretty popular). And haha, sorry for all the final fantasy references, but these are the only really good ones that I know. I'm sure that there are a lot more.
In fact, there are quite a number of good fan games released such as Final Fantasy Dreams, Final Fantasy: Endless Nova and Final Fantasy: Blackmoon Prophecy (this one especially is pretty popular). And haha, sorry for all the final fantasy references, but these are the only really good ones that I know. I'm sure that there are a lot more.
Seeing as how I'm making a fangame, I might be a bit biased on this subject.
About a decade ago, Paramount sued various fan fiction sites for rampant copyright infringement. This caused a lot of bad blood between fans and the studio, some fans believing that the atrocious story-telling in Star Trek: Enterprise being a retaliation against the fans because of fan fiction. Paramount lost. The court, citing the laws that clearly state that titles and names may not be copyrighted, only content, determined that while some works of fan fiction certainly crossed the line into infringement, most did not. Their decision was based on the belief that fan fiction, in it's best forms, does not copy a work and does not constitute a lack of imagination, but expands upon and enriches the original idea. Fan fiction is not infringement, but the natural evolution of an idea.
In fact, Gene Roddenberry is dead. Is not everything that has come after nothing more than fan fiction? Are not the modern reboots swirling through Hollywood nothing more than fan fiction? Some are good, some are atrocious, some are classic. So how are original ideas any different? And why should a fan based work be a sign of "less" imagination or "less" creativity? No story is truly original. This is what inspiration is. I have always held that the artist learns his trade off the work of others, and graduates when he's ready to create something of his own.
About a decade ago, Paramount sued various fan fiction sites for rampant copyright infringement. This caused a lot of bad blood between fans and the studio, some fans believing that the atrocious story-telling in Star Trek: Enterprise being a retaliation against the fans because of fan fiction. Paramount lost. The court, citing the laws that clearly state that titles and names may not be copyrighted, only content, determined that while some works of fan fiction certainly crossed the line into infringement, most did not. Their decision was based on the belief that fan fiction, in it's best forms, does not copy a work and does not constitute a lack of imagination, but expands upon and enriches the original idea. Fan fiction is not infringement, but the natural evolution of an idea.
In fact, Gene Roddenberry is dead. Is not everything that has come after nothing more than fan fiction? Are not the modern reboots swirling through Hollywood nothing more than fan fiction? Some are good, some are atrocious, some are classic. So how are original ideas any different? And why should a fan based work be a sign of "less" imagination or "less" creativity? No story is truly original. This is what inspiration is. I have always held that the artist learns his trade off the work of others, and graduates when he's ready to create something of his own.
I haven't seen it so much here, but just other places around the net that I've come across I've seen a lot of disdain towards fan games. Implying the person is just leeching of that fandom, or that they lack the imagination to develop their own game so they need to copy somebody else's.
I'm pro-fan games. Unless you copy and paste the story, just as much effort needs to go into it, and it's just as easy to make an unimaginative original game.
I'm pro-fan games. Unless you copy and paste the story, just as much effort needs to go into it, and it's just as easy to make an unimaginative original game.
Avee
5794
author=BansheeSerenade
I haven't seen it so much here, but just other places around the net that I've come across I've seen a lot of disdain towards fan games. Implying the person is just leeching of that fandom, or that they lack the imagination to develop their own game so they need to copy somebody else's.
I'd bet that the ones who say such things have never designed games much.
It's easier to think of good and innovative ideas when you know and understand what has been done before, thus making fan fiction and fan games excellent teachers.
Playing around with previously created content/knowledge and expanding it makes you learn a lot more than having no references at all and trying to come up with original ideas out of nowhere. And that applies to pretty much every domain/art/job in existence.
I've seen a lot of RM sites who don't like fan games and think them the lowest kind of game. This site is not those sites.
Personally, well-made fan games are great, especially if they invoke the feel of the world they're set in. I mean, if Square can make fangames of their original games (sequels my ass) then there's no reason we can't!
Some companies actually encourage it! For example, Capcom has expressed interest in people using their games as base for fan games and are open to fans using their trademarks and assets in various ways as long as permission is asked.
Besides, as long as a game is fun, it's worth playing - no matter where it draws its ideas from.
(That said, there are some fan games that actively steal from other people to use in their games and those? Those games deserve to burn. But that's less a fan game issue and more a shitty creator issue instead. :/ )
Personally, well-made fan games are great, especially if they invoke the feel of the world they're set in. I mean, if Square can make fangames of their original games (sequels my ass) then there's no reason we can't!
Some companies actually encourage it! For example, Capcom has expressed interest in people using their games as base for fan games and are open to fans using their trademarks and assets in various ways as long as permission is asked.
Besides, as long as a game is fun, it's worth playing - no matter where it draws its ideas from.
(That said, there are some fan games that actively steal from other people to use in their games and those? Those games deserve to burn. But that's less a fan game issue and more a shitty creator issue instead. :/ )
Fan games can be fine, or even awesome if done right. Messing it up however can make things extra painful for any number of reasons, thus there's always gonna be that added pressure to not screw it up. Nigsek for example, was an excellent fan game (and a shame that sovanjedi has moved on from it totally) from way back in the day that deserves mention even in the current RM era. Another one that's way less known but I have some fond memories of is megaman tournament(in fact, I'd dare say Darkflamewolf would probably have no problem making a decent fan game of whatever she wanted).
tl;dr: Go ahead and just do it; just try to keep it fresh and interesting, ok?
tl;dr: Go ahead and just do it; just try to keep it fresh and interesting, ok?
Seems like I've chosen the right site to join then! You guys seem great :'D
I wasn't aware of Capcom being pro fan games. That's really interesting, I've never been a huge fan of Capcom but now I kind of want to get into some of their stuff, haha. Er, not so I can make a fan game, just because I want to support cool people :sweat:
I really like when creators of any content can appreciate fanworks. Like, I don't get the big deal with someone making a fanfiction or fan art, or even a fan game. They don't get any money out of it, so it's essentially a free advertisement. I understand that there's the whole, "Why buy it when there's a free option available" argument, but honestly the majority of the time the original creator's work will be superior as they simply just have greater resources.
I wasn't aware of Capcom being pro fan games. That's really interesting, I've never been a huge fan of Capcom but now I kind of want to get into some of their stuff, haha. Er, not so I can make a fan game, just because I want to support cool people :sweat:
I really like when creators of any content can appreciate fanworks. Like, I don't get the big deal with someone making a fanfiction or fan art, or even a fan game. They don't get any money out of it, so it's essentially a free advertisement. I understand that there's the whole, "Why buy it when there's a free option available" argument, but honestly the majority of the time the original creator's work will be superior as they simply just have greater resources.
Fun fact; they didn't have anything to really show for mega mans 25th birthday, so instead, I do believe they promoted the interesting crossover of Street Fighter x megaman, and that game was from the same person that made mega man unlimited.
SnowOwl
5188
It's not that fangames are inherently bad, it's just that most fangame-makers are beginners and the games are therefore very often bad, giving them a bad reputation.
author=Link_2112
My fan game is the best.
your avatar matches too much with your post dude
but anyway, until around five years ago the whole inernet (rmn included as far as I can remember) was much, much more agressive towards this kind of project
like, horribly ridiculously agressive, really.
To the point of saying "why do you waste your time doing fangames？with your talent you could make original games!" (which is analogous, for example, to turning to a homosexual woman and saying "why do you waste your time with girls？with your beauty you could get a handsome dude")
but anyways, nowdays fangames are much more treasured. I particularily adore them since always. (AND MAN WHERE ARE THE VALKYRIE PROFILE AND PARASITE EVE FANGAMES BRO WHERE WHERE WHERE)
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
A lot of fan games are bad for the same reasons fanfiction is bad.
But then, this is a site geared towards RPG Maker users. So most of our original games are no better. Plus that means there's an exorbitantly high number of people using music or graphics ripped from commercial games even though they're not making a fan game.
And I've seen some fangames that were fantastic, too.
But then, this is a site geared towards RPG Maker users. So most of our original games are no better. Plus that means there's an exorbitantly high number of people using music or graphics ripped from commercial games even though they're not making a fan game.
And I've seen some fangames that were fantastic, too.
I love fangames that are done right! Anyone remember the Firefly game? Not the best, but at the time I enjoyed it for what is was. One of the few RMN games I finished.
There's a Firefly fan game? :o *goes on the hunt*
I've been tossing around a Buffy fan game idea, reworking the story into a more classic fantasy setting as opposed to modern day. So if Firefly can be done, I'm sure Buffy can too! ;) haha
(Seriously, why is Joss Whedon so perfect?)
I've been tossing around a Buffy fan game idea, reworking the story into a more classic fantasy setting as opposed to modern day. So if Firefly can be done, I'm sure Buffy can too! ;) haha
(Seriously, why is Joss Whedon so perfect?)
You might enjoy Ara Fell - a classic RM game that is sorta kinda based on Buffy in a fantasy setting with floating islands and lots of pretty.
@LockeZ: There is a lot of great fanfiction out there. A lot. I mean, sure, there's a lot of shitty fanfics out there too (SpongebobxHarryPotter whyyyyy ;.; ) but I've read some that put the original authors to shame.
@LockeZ: There is a lot of great fanfiction out there. A lot. I mean, sure, there's a lot of shitty fanfics out there too (SpongebobxHarryPotter whyyyyy ;.; ) but I've read some that put the original authors to shame.
Joss is an excellent story teller (sure, he totally screwed the pooch with Alien: Resurrection.), and I'll always feel that Firefly and Serenity was his absolute finest hour. A little bummed out that he's not doing The Age of Ultron.
The Firefly fan game is Reavers. Yes, that is a link to it.
The Firefly fan game is Reavers. Yes, that is a link to it.
Whenever I encounter a 'good' fangame, my reaction is always disappointment that the creator didn't put their talent and energy into something original. That said, I developed those feelings many years ago when there was a huge glut of fangames and a real dearth of original material. The climate and the mix of available games has changed since then, so my feelings have mellowed.
My feeling when I encounter a terrible fangame is a lack of surprise.
Disclosure: some of my own better known games weren't technically "fangames" but definitely skirted the line (i.e. Backstage to Silent Hill).
My feeling when I encounter a terrible fangame is a lack of surprise.
Disclosure: some of my own better known games weren't technically "fangames" but definitely skirted the line (i.e. Backstage to Silent Hill).
nurvuss
958
I guess making a fangame is a good way to find your feet. It's much easier to devise your own twist on an existing story than come up with something wholly your own.
But it's important to have the technical skills to do the existing work justice. I'm not saying you need to re-create their systems and trademarks 1:1, but you can't just half-ass it.
For every Final Fantasy Blackmoon Prophecy, there's a Persona: Inescapable Fate. It's important to remember that.
I do feel the same as Max, though. In my opinion the best outcome is if the creation of an initial fangame functions as a springboard for creative growth. :) Best of all is if you take inspiration (as much or as little as you'd like) and create an original work. Lone Survivor is a game that wears its influences on its sleeve but still manages to be a deeply interesting and enthralling work.
But it's important to have the technical skills to do the existing work justice. I'm not saying you need to re-create their systems and trademarks 1:1, but you can't just half-ass it.
For every Final Fantasy Blackmoon Prophecy, there's a Persona: Inescapable Fate. It's important to remember that.
I do feel the same as Max, though. In my opinion the best outcome is if the creation of an initial fangame functions as a springboard for creative growth. :) Best of all is if you take inspiration (as much or as little as you'd like) and create an original work. Lone Survivor is a game that wears its influences on its sleeve but still manages to be a deeply interesting and enthralling work.
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