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AMERICANA DAWN
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CloseHer name is apparently Maxwell, though it may as well be a pseudonym.
By AM I of course meant AMericana. I guess the proper acronym would be AD :D
Agreed on the threshold. The original was a manageable little game, the latest incarnation is a pipe dream.
By AM I of course meant AMericana. I guess the proper acronym would be AD :D
Agreed on the threshold. The original was a manageable little game, the latest incarnation is a pipe dream.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
The developers needing nearly 50k within 17 days is disconcerting... This game looks attractive but I guess that's the point some of you have made: it looks wonderful, but there is no available playable content to warrant the request of that much money. So I don't know. It would be a shame if it fell through as it looks pretty cool. I've said that three times. SO... yeah.
The developers needing nearly 50k within 17 days is disconcerting..
From personal experience, Kickstarters do about 25% of their funding in the first 48 hours, about 35% in the last 48 hours, and the remaining 40% in the loooooonnnng slow middle in between.
author=suzy_cheesedreams
The developers needing nearly 50k within 17 days is disconcerting... This game looks attractive but I guess that's the point some of you have made: it looks wonderful, but there is no available playable content to warrant the request of that much money. So I don't know. It would be a shame if it fell through as it looks pretty cool. I've said that three times. SO... yeah.
Kickstarters normally make bigger jumps around the end. In the last 48 hours a project called Under the Dog jumped up from like 200,000 to 700,000.
author=Max McGee
hold up sorry YDS' real name is 'Max'?
No it's not, but I'm not at liberty to divulge her real name.
author=Max
Anyway...idk....70,000 honestly seems a bit high to me. I feel like if she'd asked for like...30,000 she'd totally have got it, and I think with a smaller and slightly less ambitious team, she could have made the game with that. But I'm not so sure she's gonna fund (with or without our help/support).
I think she can do it, but like I said, there were some big setbacks to the project before. I'm watching this.
Darken
3952
author=Solitayreauthor=DarkenA manageable scope, for one. YDS already held a Kickstarter for this yet produced no game. There doesn't appear to be any sense that she has managed expectations or scaled the game appropriately. The game is bigger than ever and she's asking for more money than ever.
@Max: Yeah I agree. As much as I'd like to bring KS people down to reality there's a point where I have no idea where the line is for people like Soli
Throwing $70,000 at this game isn't going to make it more likely to be finished.
I think the scope you're talking about is based on some conjecture. I'm pretty sure it isn't going to be epic suiokden with millions of characters and I'm pretty sure just because it's clocking through several wars doesn't mean it's going to try and match the timeframe between them (fast forwarding exists you know). From what I gleaned from convos in the past, I got the impression that this was just going to be a series of short stories with some non complicated battles in between. It wasn't conveyed in the kickstarter, but the hype text isn't THAT misleading.
4k isn't very much money, and I still stand by that you really don't NEED money to make a game. But I think if you're asking for money you better ask for a big amount to make it worth it. Too many RMers usually ask for modest amounts to the point where I wonder if its side cash for slapping tiles down like you've always done with or without zennies. That spells risk for a lot of projects I guess, but the logic behind a second kickstarter makes sense to me as long as the person didn't pocket the money + actually owns up to it which YDS did.
Whether or not the game will be finished I'll agree that it's up to YDS and not the money. But she clearly hasn't given up unlike others.
author=unity
This. No one says that the demo you put together has to be perfect. That's what all the money's for, afterall! But I don't think it's too much to ask to have one. Because anyone with stars in their eyes can say they plan to do something, but it takes a level of determination and follow-through that I'm finding is surprisingly rare to actually complete a project.
I don't think an unpolished demo would change people's minds considering this community is built on piles of demos that could have been.
SnowOwl
5188
I think a demo would at least show that there is something resembling a game and not just pretty pictures that could have been put together in photoshop or whatever. Either way, I can understand the hesitation in backing these kinds of projects given that there have been several games that got their money and didn't deliver.
This seems to show all the signs of one of those games.
For example, YDS seems to have no other finished games to show (except 20 minute-ish ones?), there seems to be no end to the creator adding more and more new stuff, the scale keeps increasing, the team is a ragtag team who barely know each other, etc etc. It does not bode well and I would be very surprised if this game ever sees the light of day.
This seems to show all the signs of one of those games.
For example, YDS seems to have no other finished games to show (except 20 minute-ish ones?), there seems to be no end to the creator adding more and more new stuff, the scale keeps increasing, the team is a ragtag team who barely know each other, etc etc. It does not bode well and I would be very surprised if this game ever sees the light of day.
Darken
3952
author=SnowOwl
I think a demo would at least show that there is something resembling a game and not just pretty pictures that could have been put together in photoshop or whatever.
But they clearly have more than pretty pictures that could have been made in photoshop. Your comment about her 20 min projects seem to contradict the nature of a 20 min demo proving anything...
author=Darkenauthor=SnowOwlBut they clearly have more than pretty pictures that could have been made in photoshop. Your comment about her 20 min projects seem to contradict the nature of a 20 min demo proving anything...
I think a demo would at least show that there is something resembling a game and not just pretty pictures that could have been put together in photoshop or whatever.
You seem to be saying "She's done a 20 minute game before, so clearly she doesn't need to have a demo with 20 minutes of playable content before she asks for $70,000 here."
The fact of the matter is that having a demo for the thing you want loads of money to make isn't asking for a lot. If she's got all this content, why not let potential players play some of it? Also, trying to make a Suikoden-scope game when all of your other projects have only been 20 minutes long isn't the same thing at all.
If this all sounds absurd and you want to put your faith and money into the game, then that's all good. I'm just not looking for another disappointment, thanks very much. There's a chance that she can come through and make the game, and I wish her well with that. But without proving herself capable of creating a game of this magnitude, I'm not willing to put money down on it.
SnowOwl
5188
author=Darkenauthor=SnowOwlBut they clearly have more than pretty pictures that could have been made in photoshop. Your comment about her 20 min projects seem to contradict the nature of a 20 min demo proving anything...
I think a demo would at least show that there is something resembling a game and not just pretty pictures that could have been put together in photoshop or whatever.
My apologies, the pictures ARE animated.
How does my statement contradict the other one? The point I was making was that a demo would show that the game is a real thing that is getting made, not just the fun stuff like pretty pictures and music, but also the tedious parts that 99% of developers don't want to do and is also the reason so many games never get finished.
The part about YDS not having any games finished of at least something resembling the scope of this one was also mentioned because YDS not having any finished games longer than 20 minutes shows she(he?) might not have the experience required to finish the project.
author=Darkenauthor=SnowOwl
I think a demo would at least show that there is something resembling a game and not just pretty pictures that could have been put together in photoshop or whatever.
I'm pretty sure gameplay videos can't be put together on photoshop
and so can't music
and fucking look at that concept art
She's got more original spritework on those screens than 99.5% of RMN've got on their games.
Granted, I agree that having a demo wouldn't hurt but downplaying the ridiculous ammount of effort put on those music, graphics and video is preposterous.
SnowOwl
5188
It doesn't really matter what it was put together in. What matters is what is being put together. I can put ridicilous amounts of work at things I enjoy too. Anyone can, because it's fun. Music and pretty pictures are generally what alot of people making games enjoy doing. But there are tedious parts to gamemaking too. A demo would show that those parts are also being worked on. Just sayin'. It definitely does not help for me that there was a kickstarter before this one that didn't deliver and instead increased the scope tenfold.
Maybe I'm harshly critical, maybe there is work being done on that too. Given the track record of these kinds of things, I don't think it's unwarranted to ask for some reassurance.
People ruin things for others all the time and other people ruined kickstarter games to the point that without a demo me and alot of others will probably never give these small(ish) projects any money.
Maybe I'm harshly critical, maybe there is work being done on that too. Given the track record of these kinds of things, I don't think it's unwarranted to ask for some reassurance.
People ruin things for others all the time and other people ruined kickstarter games to the point that without a demo me and alot of others will probably never give these small(ish) projects any money.
author=Darken
4k isn't very much money, and I still stand by that you really don't NEED money to make a game.
At least not a LOT of money. I bought like all of the graphics I am using in my current project for well under $100 dollars. And that's awesome.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
...There is always the possibility of this game and others being an exception to the kickstarter failure thing : /
Hasvers
1298
And now it's Greenlit.
Echoes of Eternea Dungeon Panic! is the worst offender here since the team pretty much just quit to do their webcomic instead (and very unapologetically, at that). The first one should not really count as a loss since you got a refund, but I do understand how you may feel about that sort of projects now.
Honestly, while a demo would have been a proof of goodwill, I kind of agree with Darken that it wouldn't have been much more reassurance about the team's ability to complete the project.
As for the general tone of this thread, I feel that informing other people about potential risks is a good thing, not wanting to take those risks yourself is fine, but actively discouraging others from supporting a peer out of unrelated experiences and lack of evidence is harsh. I see where y'all are coming from, but still.
It's a small community, anyone of us may someday benefit from a touch of leniency and optimism and willingness to take a crapshoot (just as we may learn from each other's mistakes).
author=unityI see, I guess
RAiN (sent out refunds), Dungeon Panic! (indefinite hiatus), Echoes of Eternia (was supposed to be finished over a year ago and shows no signs of nearing completion).
Honestly, while a demo would have been a proof of goodwill, I kind of agree with Darken that it wouldn't have been much more reassurance about the team's ability to complete the project.
As for the general tone of this thread, I feel that informing other people about potential risks is a good thing, not wanting to take those risks yourself is fine, but actively discouraging others from supporting a peer out of unrelated experiences and lack of evidence is harsh. I see where y'all are coming from, but still.
It's a small community, anyone of us may someday benefit from a touch of leniency and optimism and willingness to take a crapshoot (just as we may learn from each other's mistakes).
author=Hasvers
And now it's Greenlit.
author=unity
RAiN (sent out refunds), Dungeon Panic! (indefinite hiatus), Echoes of Eternia (was supposed to be finished over a year ago and shows no signs of nearing completion).
I see, I guess Echoes of Eternea is the worst offender here since the team pretty much just quit to do their webcomic instead (and very unapologetically, at that). The first one should not really count as a loss since you got a refund, but I do understand how you may feel about that sort of projects now.
Honestly, while a demo would have been a proof of goodwill, I kind of agree with Darken that it wouldn't have been much more reassurance about the team's ability to complete the project.
As for the general tone of this thread, I feel that informing other people about potential risks is a good thing, not wanting to take those risks yourself is fine, but actively discouraging others from supporting a peer out of unrelated experiences and lack of evidence is harsh. I see where y'all are coming from, but still.
It's a small community, anyone of us may someday benefit from a touch of leniency and optimism and willingness to take a crapshoot (just as we may learn from each other's mistakes).
You have a good point. I'm generally a little more optimistic, and in this area, I guess I let my own bitterness over past disappointments get the better of me. I'll try to be less discouraging in situations like this in the future.
SnowOwl
5188
It's hard to be positive when you get disappointed over and over again. You're basically paying to get disappointed. How neat is that?
As a person whose future business will almost certainly depend upon Kickstarter, GOD DO I HATE THE MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS THAT DON'T DELIVER ON THEIR FUNDED KICKSTARTERS. You are poisoning the well for all of us you insufferable assholes.
Hasvers
1298
Thanks unity and sorry if that sounded like I was taking the moral high ground. I completely understand why someone would draw a line and I think it's a good thing to know where to stop taking risks for yourself ;)
author=SnowOwlUnfortunately that's called being an investor, a publisher or an employer, and it's quite likely to happen next time you hire someone. So far, I find it kind of impressive how rarely I've been utterly disappointed by indie gamedevs compared to other people I've given money to do stuff, although that may have been a streak of luck.
You're basically paying to get disappointed.
