AMERICANA DAWN

Posts

Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
Unfortunately that's called being an investor, a publisher or an employer, and it's quite likely to happen next time you hire someone.


Well, investors and publishers and employers at least have a shot at seeing actual financial returns...which is not a possible result as a Kickstarter backer.
Well you're investing a very small sum in return for the hope of (virtual) goods ;) Amusingly enough, if we did not expect any return, it would become a charity to support poor gamedevs in their lifestyle and we might do it out of goodwill or out of principle whether or not they finish their games. Anyway, that's a bit beyond the point.
author=Max McGee
It pains me to do so, but I have to agree with Soli. Even when I worked on AM, back when it was still the game the original backers paid for, I repeatedly told Max to reign it in.
hold up sorry YDS' real name is 'Max'? or wait...AM? I thought the game was called American Dawn?

Anyway...idk....70,000 honestly seems a bit high to me. I feel like if she'd asked for like...30,000 she'd totally have got it, and I think with a smaller and slightly less ambitious team, she could have made the game with that. But I'm not so sure she's gonna fund (with or without our help/support).

The one thing I know for sure about this is that going from an ask of 2,000 to an ask of 70,000 is a crazy fucking leap straight out of crazytown.


Art and resources, in my experience, are the most expensive part of putting a game together (when you already have programming taken care of). 70k is probably a little on the low side for a game that wants to be of the scope that this does. Getting about an hour's worth of (good) music runs around 6k alone, a single character (many different actions, poses, etc) can cost over $600 depending on the type of game, sound effects also add up quickly.

70k is not as much as you think, especially considering you have to pay taxes on the money you receive from KS, in addition to the cut that Amazon/KS takes.
Ciel
an aristocrat of rpgmaker culture
367
author=Max McGee
As a person whose future business will almost certainly depend upon Kickstarter, GOD DO I HATE THE MOTHERFUCKING MOTHERFUCKERS THAT DON'T DELIVER ON THEIR FUNDED KICKSTARTERS. You are poisoning the well for all of us you insufferable assholes.


rainfall and yogscast ruined kickstarter
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
Don't just mean them, I mean everyone who has ever failed to deliver on a KS. Mainly, it's the TTRPG ones I care about, but if someone made a Kickstarter for a new kind of spork and funded but didn't deliver, that would piss me off too, at least a little.

The most cutting thing you can say is "who's this clown?" because it implies they're a) clowns and b) not even one of the better-known clowns.
author=Max McGee
Don't just mean them, I mean everyone who has ever failed to deliver on a KS. Mainly, it's the TTRPG ones I care about...


Does anyone know if Max is working on a TTRPG? I don't think it's been mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in this thread about someone else's game on Kickstarter yet...
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
Just seen this, and unfortunately I'm gonna have to side with Solitayre & Co on this one.

I like that there's an estimate, but for a project requiring this amount of funding, I'm surprised so few have asked for a basic project plan. Even a crappy Gantt chart would show that at least some thought's been put into progression.

I think this is one of my major gripes with a lot of Kickstarter projects. If you want to enter the big leagues, behave like the big leagues. End of the day, this will help not only investors, but your team too.

YDS is a pretty cool person, one of the coolest as far as RM is concerned, but I thought that of Ghost too.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7419
70 grand?! Like, I'm not sure if anyone else has said this because I just skimmed over the OP long enough to find the link, but 70 grand?!

13 days left and settling at 20k... Eh, maybe next time, Yummy Drumsticks.

Dec. 10th EDIT: I think the amount backers have put into this actually dropped. I could have sworn it was at 20.6k or 20.7k+ earlier today, now it's back to 20.5k+
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
author=Corfaisus
70 grand?! Like, I'm not sure if anyone else has said this because I just skimmed over the OP long enough to find the link, but 70 grand?!

13 days left and settling at 20k... Eh, maybe next time, Yummy Drumsticks.

As I said, the last 48 hours is when most Kickstarters earn the biggest parts of their goals.

Under the Dog had 200 thousand and then in 2ish days went from 200 thousand to 878,028. Their goal being 500,000. Also 70,000 is a small amount of money given it's not cheap to hire musicians, artists, etc.

They're going to be using a lot of their own money too, in the end.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
author=Clyve
author=Max McGee
Don't just mean them, I mean everyone who has ever failed to deliver on a KS. Mainly, it's the TTRPG ones I care about...
Does anyone know if Max is working on a TTRPG? I don't think it's been mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in this thread about someone else's game on Kickstarter yet...

Yeah, I am, and we had a really successful Kickstarter for it, thanks for asking.

: )

Getting about an hour's worth of (good) music runs around 6k alone, a single character (many different actions, poses, etc) can cost over $600 depending on the type of game, sound effects also add up quickly.

Yeah maybe it CAN cost that much but everyone around here should definitely know by now that it can cost a hell of a lot less than that too. There's so many talented artists and composers offering their work around here either for free or for pennies (Maybe they aren't all reliable, sure. But this is the internet, and trust me when I say no amount of money will make anyone be 100% reliable.) that I really don't think making a high quality game with 100% original assets that are also high quality needs to cost that much. I am pretty much positive that you could do it for 10% of what YDS is asking.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
author=Max McGee
author=Clyve
author=Max McGee
Don't just mean them, I mean everyone who has ever failed to deliver on a KS. Mainly, it's the TTRPG ones I care about...
Does anyone know if Max is working on a TTRPG? I don't think it's been mentioned SEVERAL TIMES in this thread about someone else's game on Kickstarter yet...
Yeah, I am, and we had a really successful Kickstarter for it, thanks for asking.

: )

Getting about an hour's worth of (good) music runs around 6k alone, a single character (many different actions, poses, etc) can cost over $600 depending on the type of game, sound effects also add up quickly.


Yeah maybe it CAN cost that much but everyone around here should definitely know by now that it can cost a hell of a lot less than that too. There's so many talented artists and composers offering their work around here either for free or for pennies (Maybe they aren't all reliable, sure. But this is the internet, and trust me when I say no amount of money will make anyone be 100% reliable.) that I really don't think making a high quality game with 100% original assets that are also high quality needs to cost that much. I am pretty much positive that you could do it for 10% of what YDS is asking.


It's easier to find professional artists than those willing to either do it for free or extremely cheaper. So by having the money, they can easily find the artists, etc.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
Thiamor:

Here is the thing...professional covers a very wide range of artists and a wide range of prices. You can find extremely gifted artists that will work very cheap, and they may well even be better than more expensive artists who can charge more because they are more well known.
author=Max McGee
Thiamor:

Here is the thing...professional covers a very wide range of artists and a wide range of prices. You can find extremely gifted artists that will work very cheap, and they may well even be better than more expensive artists who can charge more because they are more well known.


In my experience, you get what you pay for. Sure, there are people who work for free, but that work is often shit. Also, talented folks who offer to work for free very quickly become bored and quit/disappear/do minimal work with maximum excuses.

In order to get good quality assets for a game reliably so you can finish in a decent amount of time, it needs to come out of your pocket.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9219
author=Clyve
In my experience, you get what you pay for. Sure, there are people who work for free, but that work is often shit. Also, talented folks who offer to work for free very quickly become bored and quit/disappear/do minimal work with maximum excuses.

In order to get good quality assets for a game reliably so you can finish in a decent amount of time, it needs to come out of your pocket.


So, what is your experience exactly?

Because I actually own a company that pays substantial amounts of money to substantial numbers of artists to create art for use in games. And I can reliably get very high quality work at very reasonable prices.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
author=Clyve
author=Max McGee
Thiamor:

Here is the thing...professional covers a very wide range of artists and a wide range of prices. You can find extremely gifted artists that will work very cheap, and they may well even be better than more expensive artists who can charge more because they are more well known.
In my experience, you get what you pay for. Sure, there are people who work for free, but that work is often shit. Also, talented folks who offer to work for free very quickly become bored and quit/disappear/do minimal work with maximum excuses.

In order to get good quality assets for a game reliably so you can finish in a decent amount of time, it needs to come out of your pocket.


That was what I was trying to say all along. Much easier to put in their needed money than to hope, pray and continually search for cheaper deals.
Thiamor
I assure you I'm no where NEAR as STUPID as one might think.
63
author=Max McGee
author=Clyve
In my experience, you get what you pay for. Sure, there are people who work for free, but that work is often shit. Also, talented folks who offer to work for free very quickly become bored and quit/disappear/do minimal work with maximum excuses.

In order to get good quality assets for a game reliably so you can finish in a decent amount of time, it needs to come out of your pocket.
So, what is your experience exactly?

Because I actually own a company that pays substantial amounts of money to substantial numbers of artists to create art for use in games. And I can reliably get very high quality work at very reasonable prices.

You're the minority there. You don't count. Sorry for the double post. My bad.
author=Max McGee
author=Clyve
In my experience, you get what you pay for. Sure, there are people who work for free, but that work is often shit. Also, talented folks who offer to work for free very quickly become bored and quit/disappear/do minimal work with maximum excuses.

In order to get good quality assets for a game reliably so you can finish in a decent amount of time, it needs to come out of your pocket.
So, what is your experience exactly?

Because I actually own a company that pays substantial amounts of money to substantial numbers of artists to create art for use in games. And I can reliably get very high quality work at very reasonable prices.


sorry dude i can get very high quality stuff from china for very reasonable prices too. there's alibaba, aliexpress, etc.

except oh wait that's slavery but no one cares

don't think it's a single drop different when it comes to art assets.
author=JosephSeraph
sorry dude i can get very high quality stuff from china for very reasonable prices too. there's alibaba, aliexpress, etc.

Everything I've ordered from that site was garbage. Sure it's cheap, but it doesn't work or I get the wrong item. In my experience. No more of that. Plus I'm not too keen on supporting china's economy.
author=Max McGee
Thiamor:

Here is the thing...professional covers a very wide range of artists and a wide range of prices. You can find extremely gifted artists that will work very cheap, and they may well even be better than more expensive artists who can charge more because they are more well known.

They should not. The reason they are cheap is because people take advantage of them or constantly do the 'oh, but x was cheaper' or the bullshit line "you'll get exposure". Quite frankly, if their work is good you should pay them well. FFS, sorry, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about - people getting paid fairly for their work and not getting ripped off just because they're artists. It's ridiculous and people who do it should feel bad.
author=Liberty
author=Max McGee
Thiamor:

Here is the thing...professional covers a very wide range of artists and a wide range of prices. You can find extremely gifted artists that will work very cheap, and they may well even be better than more expensive artists who can charge more because they are more well known.
They should not. The reason they are cheap is because people take advantage of them or constantly do the 'oh, but x was cheaper' or the bullshit line "you'll get exposure". Quite frankly, if their work is good you should pay them well. FFS, sorry, but this is something I feel pretty strongly about - people getting paid fairly for their work and not getting ripped off just because they're artists. It's ridiculous and people who do it should feel bad.
^^^^^^^

Art takes a lot of work, and I feel that game art takes even MORE work. Not only are you trying to create something that's good quality, you also have to make sure it's consistent in style and quality throughout the whole game, which obvs takes a fuck tonne more planning. It takes a lot of skill to create enough graphics for a full game, and I seriously admire anyone that can do that.

Pay a fair price for your commissions or make due with what's already out there.