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WHY CONTINUE A SERIES?
Posts
LouisCyphre
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Closeauthor=Max McGee
am i the only one here who thought X-2 was too "girly" to consider playing it?
i mean shit is fucking dress up, right?
So is Diablo!
X-2 is the best realization of ATB combat in the franchise and it never takes itself too seriously, which is a huge breath of fresh air. If you can remember to keep an open mind (2002!) then I highly recommend playing or at least emulating it!
If you feel emasculated by a sappy scene, just skip the scene. If you don't like the magical girl scenes for in-combat real time class changes, then shorten or turn them off in the menu. But play it!
edit: also Brother is a piece of fucking work christ damn son
FF9 is the best Final Fantasy, so that's reason enough to continue series.
At some point they will get it just right.
At some point they will get it just right.
author=LouisCyphreauthor=LibertyX-2's a fantastic example because Yuna also has so much to unlearn about herself. The entire basis of her character as a demure, holy, and invincible public figure (summoner) is built on top of a millenia-old sham by a powerful few to hold power. It's no surprise she throws out everything she associates with that role! (Including all of her mega potions!)author=LouisCyphreX-2 would like to talk to you about character assassination...
Final Fantasy <insert number or subtitle> is about a group of unlikely young heroes unlearning everything they thought they knew about the dying world they set out in order to save.
edit: basic grammar
She then spends the rest of the game struggling to say no to helping people because, well, she's not their savior. She has her own things to do, like finding phat lewt and poking her head in ruins it doesn't belong in. Eventually, she begins to realize that she can't turn down a plea for help and she hates it--that's exactly the trait that was preyed upon over and over during her pilgrimage! But wait, when she sees the people she helps getting along with their lives, she starts to realize that she genuinely enjoys helping people! This fucks her up, because she's starting to be peoples' pawn again. Why can't she mind her own business? After some hijinks and some word-smacking from R and P, she gets it together. She is choosing to help people herself. She's not caving in, being weak-willed, or being manipulated. Having an urge to step in when others are in need is who she is, and she learns to do it with pride.
X-2 would like to talk to you about character development. Q.E.D.
edit: if anyone responds with "but fanservice" friendly reminder that FF9 is the first FF with named party members where every female in the party covers their thighs
...my point was about the game not being about save the world bullshit - the game 'character' being the one assassinated by the generalisation, not the actual characters themselves. As I already stated, I liked X-2 and the characters in it.
author=Max McGee
am i the only one here who thought X-2 was too "girly" to consider playing it?
i mean shit is fucking dress up, right?
You say that as though being 'girly' is a bad thing~ Frankly, if you can't handle a 3 woman party of awesome, that's not the game's issue. ;p
Granted, there's a lot of fanservice, but I found it less fanservice and more girls being awesome and doing what the fuck they want to do, fuck the men who tell them they can't because get out son! The characterisation is really well done for a Square game (yes, I went there) and it is so nice to see an upbeat, playful, fun game that isn't all doom and gloom but is instead about finding yourself and dealing with rebuilding the world and helping out where you can (while doing what you want because fuck society and it's demands).
Being a teen girl when it came out, I loved it to bits because Yuna stopped being some pure holy maiden of plot-relevant love-interestism and instead became someone who did what she wanted and looked fabulous in doing so (also, Rikku and Paine - what's not to love!)
Oh, and the battle system is still one of the best ones Square ever made. Bar. Fucking. None.
I was typing that up right after your response, actually. I didn't see your responses until after I refreshed. Embarrassing!
Is fine. XD
Misunderstandings happen~
(And yes, Brother I wanted to kick sometimes. >.<; Other times I just wanted him to find a nice girl and settle down because he's not a bad guy just a bit... excitable. About Yuna. And slumber parties. XD
orz)
Misunderstandings happen~
(And yes, Brother I wanted to kick sometimes. >.<; Other times I just wanted him to find a nice girl and settle down because he's not a bad guy just a bit... excitable. About Yuna. And slumber parties. XD
orz)
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
I love X. Did not like its sequel, but I did have to get use to and accept the ultra-cheese+ham that was Final Fantasy X, so I think I just need to play X-2 again. I do remember liking the battle system; I didn't like Yuna's pop-stardom, the whole Brother situation, that cringe-inducing massage mini-game, hahahaha. I probably would appreciate the lameness of that stuff now, but when I was way younger I think I was just confused by it.
Further off-topic: I actually really liked Yuna's characterisation in the first game, and I did not at all like her in the second game, I just couldn't understand why she suddenly was dressing in tiny pants. I don't care about the fanservice thing either, I just didn't think her new look fit with her personality - or at least what I understood her to be like from the first game. EDIT: I did not finish X-2! I forgot to write that. So I am positive I need to go back to that game and play it through, but my initial impression from playing was dislike of the new Yuna and... other things (but that was over half a decade ago). Anyway! XD
Kind of on-topic:
Lightning Returns is a crappy sequel. It has some positives but in terms of story, characters, setting - it is awful. I keep going on about this in various threads but seriously, that game sucked. It definitely felt like a simultaneous punch to the balls and cash-grab. I don't think earlier Final Fantasy games fall into this at all, because they tended to take much more care with their characters and story (this is arguable, of course, one might simply not like those games or how they typically handle story or whatever at all) as well as the gameplay/battle systems side, which I thought were always pretty solid (not that I had much to compare to when I was a kid).
I think it would be interesting to make a spiritual successor type sequel. Make a fully self-contained game and follow it up with another that shares a few similarities like themes or setting, and the "sequel" could just be a way of further exploring the same issues you brought up in the first one, but with the freedom of new characters to flesh out and other things.
Further off-topic: I actually really liked Yuna's characterisation in the first game, and I did not at all like her in the second game, I just couldn't understand why she suddenly was dressing in tiny pants. I don't care about the fanservice thing either, I just didn't think her new look fit with her personality - or at least what I understood her to be like from the first game. EDIT: I did not finish X-2! I forgot to write that. So I am positive I need to go back to that game and play it through, but my initial impression from playing was dislike of the new Yuna and... other things (but that was over half a decade ago). Anyway! XD
Kind of on-topic:
Lightning Returns is a crappy sequel. It has some positives but in terms of story, characters, setting - it is awful. I keep going on about this in various threads but seriously, that game sucked. It definitely felt like a simultaneous punch to the balls and cash-grab. I don't think earlier Final Fantasy games fall into this at all, because they tended to take much more care with their characters and story (this is arguable, of course, one might simply not like those games or how they typically handle story or whatever at all) as well as the gameplay/battle systems side, which I thought were always pretty solid (not that I had much to compare to when I was a kid).
I think it would be interesting to make a spiritual successor type sequel. Make a fully self-contained game and follow it up with another that shares a few similarities like themes or setting, and the "sequel" could just be a way of further exploring the same issues you brought up in the first one, but with the freedom of new characters to flesh out and other things.
author=Max McGee
am i the only one here who thought X-2 was too "girly" to consider playing it?
i mean shit is fucking dress up, right?
what the fuck is 'too girly'
i don't even
ughhhhhhhhhhhhh
seriously, my stomach is swirling and swirling, swirling and swirling again
UGH, 'too girly' is not a thing. At all. Yeah. Unless you're 8 years old and not yet so secure about your sexuality, then you can feel awkward watching Winx and Barbie movies. Otherwise, I think we're a tad too old to feel that way.
ugh.
Anyway, X-2 was awesome. It was light, fun and amaxing. I love both it and X equally, and I believe X-2's got one of the best and most natural plots of video game history.
that being said, there are some examples of cash-grabbing sequels too.
Guess what game is this:
it's Farmville
macblo
85
I just did an internet search on BOF 6. I don't like jumping to conclusions, but I don't think fans are going to be happy with the game. I though you were just pulling my leg or that the game was just some joke that I didn't get, but its a BOF game. I know very little about the BOF series, but I don't think it looks like that.
BoF VI will probably make me a sad, sad puppy. The design of Worens alone makes me want to cry (fuck you guys whyyyyy would you doooo that ;.; ). That said, I'll still probably get it when it comes out because if they don't see sales they'll probably do a Konami and axe the whole series.
Pictured: NOT A FUCKING WOREN, ASSHOLES!!!
Suikoden Teirkries and the Threads woven 100 whatever its name is are classic 'making sequels to sell monies. They took everything that makes a Suikoden game and shat all over it. No, what they really did was make a jRPG, added a few small pieces of gameplay from the proper series (108 Stars of Destiny) and then slapped SUIKODEN on the title. It's not a bad jRPG but it should never, ever have been considered and released as a Suikoden.
Same with Breath of Fire V, come to think of it. It's an interesting game but aside from adding a name as a call-back and using a 'dragon' gene, it was basically not a Breath of Fire game at all.
I move to remove these as being considered sequels. All with me?
Pictured: A REAL FUCKING WOREN!!!
Oh, but about that image above - it is part of the series to rebuild a town of some sort. It's supposed to be a bigger part of the game in VI than in the series before (even though in II it was a pretty main part of the game, come to think of it, even altering the ending depending on... things). So more than likely that's what that image is of. And it's not just rebuilding, it's also choosing what to add to where and losing out on different choices depending on what you pick for which spot (or even what carpenter you choose) so I can see that working in a BoF game, I guess.
It doesn't help that they decided to go with a more Maple Story style of graphics, though. I mean, cutesy is okay, but they should at least try for their own unique style at least. :/
Pictured: NOT A FUCKING WOREN, ASSHOLES!!!
Suikoden Teirkries and the Threads woven 100 whatever its name is are classic 'making sequels to sell monies. They took everything that makes a Suikoden game and shat all over it. No, what they really did was make a jRPG, added a few small pieces of gameplay from the proper series (108 Stars of Destiny) and then slapped SUIKODEN on the title. It's not a bad jRPG but it should never, ever have been considered and released as a Suikoden.
Same with Breath of Fire V, come to think of it. It's an interesting game but aside from adding a name as a call-back and using a 'dragon' gene, it was basically not a Breath of Fire game at all.
I move to remove these as being considered sequels. All with me?
Pictured: A REAL FUCKING WOREN!!!
Oh, but about that image above - it is part of the series to rebuild a town of some sort. It's supposed to be a bigger part of the game in VI than in the series before (even though in II it was a pretty main part of the game, come to think of it, even altering the ending depending on... things). So more than likely that's what that image is of. And it's not just rebuilding, it's also choosing what to add to where and losing out on different choices depending on what you pick for which spot (or even what carpenter you choose) so I can see that working in a BoF game, I guess.
It doesn't help that they decided to go with a more Maple Story style of graphics, though. I mean, cutesy is okay, but they should at least try for their own unique style at least. :/
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
I would probably agree if I had played any of those games!
The only BOF I've played is the fourth one. Nothing to compare it to. And the other j-rpgs besides Final Fantasy I've played - Wild Arms, Grandia - never got my hands on their sequels.
The only BOF I've played is the fourth one. Nothing to compare it to. And the other j-rpgs besides Final Fantasy I've played - Wild Arms, Grandia - never got my hands on their sequels.
Kiana
50
author=Liberty
I rather enjoyed not having to do the same 'save the world' shit over and again.
Vagnagun. You have to save the world again. Taking too long in the battle actually leads to a special game over because of it. So it starts out as light hearted, but goes back to the same old thing after a while. You even have to thwart a pretty boy or two along the way.
author=LouisCypher
X-2 would like to talk to you about character development.
Yuna having some character development: Yes. Though a lot of it was off screen. She was clearly the focus of the game, though.
Paine got some development, but really only if you did a lot of optional stuff.
Rikku... was just there. The closest thing to character development she had was going from 'afraid of lightning' to 'not afraid of lightning' off screen.
author=Max McGee
am i the only one here who thought X-2 was too "girly" to consider playing it?
i mean shit is fucking dress up, right?
There was far too little gothic lolita or tea parties for the game to be girly.
I wanted more gothic lolita.
The best healer class in the game isn't the standard white mage, but the Alchemist, which wields a machinegun. Free mega-lixers and infinite bullets.
author=LouisCypher
X-2 is the best realization of ATB combat in the franchise
Oh, I agree with this so much.
If you don't like the magical girl scenes for in-combat real time class changes
I love magical girl and class changes. This contributed to my liking the game even if the plot didn't appeal to me. Yet another dead guy wanting to destroy the world? Meh.
author=suzy_cheesedreams
Lightning Returns is a crappy sequel.
Lightning Returns is a crappy game. The combat is an improvement over XIII, sure, but that's a low bar consider XIII basically played itself. That's the nicest thing I can say about XIII.
The rest of the game was awful. From the time mechanics (you have a limited amount of time to do shit, but the game forces you to wait around at points to, say, trail some assholes) to the characters (I hated the chick in the sexed up chocobo cosplay. I also loved her, because she had a personality, which was an improvement over most of the cast. Lightning herself admits to not feeling anything. The two random train station guys had more depth and emotion than the main characters.)
And the redundancy. It's the third game in the trilogy and they're still constantly repeating shit like Serah being Lightning's sister. Then they add in how Lightning has to collect souls to bring her back to life, basically, which they say over half a dozen times in the first hour of the game.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
Haha, yeah, I meant to clarify that Lightning Returns is both a crap sequel AND just a crap game in and of itself.
I agree that the time mechanics are terribly implemented. The FIRST MISSION is completely pointless, as I'm sure I found the phone number thing elsewhere before I trailed those robed dudes, but the game told me over again that following them was imperative to finishing said mission. *EYE-ROLL*
Lightning is a terrible character. Throwing her into a wacky end-of-world scenario with a billion ways to dress her up in the dumbest outfits ever (which I totally took advantage of, because it's funny) conflicted with her serious task of saving the world and/or AGAIN Serah.
Not that the first two in the 13 trilogy are by any means great games, but Lightning Returns is a good recipe of a completely shitty sequel (save for the battle system). Confusing, nonsensical characterisation; a world that seems completely oblivious to its own impending doom as many of your tasks are maddeningly stupid and are a waste of Lightning's time and skills; an annoying mechanic i.e. the time limit that impedes on your ability to play it thoroughly, and Hope nags at you to use your time wisely every time you go back to the hub, etc. etc. etc. BLECH.
I agree that the time mechanics are terribly implemented. The FIRST MISSION is completely pointless, as I'm sure I found the phone number thing elsewhere before I trailed those robed dudes, but the game told me over again that following them was imperative to finishing said mission. *EYE-ROLL*
Lightning is a terrible character. Throwing her into a wacky end-of-world scenario with a billion ways to dress her up in the dumbest outfits ever (which I totally took advantage of, because it's funny) conflicted with her serious task of saving the world and/or AGAIN Serah.
Not that the first two in the 13 trilogy are by any means great games, but Lightning Returns is a good recipe of a completely shitty sequel (save for the battle system). Confusing, nonsensical characterisation; a world that seems completely oblivious to its own impending doom as many of your tasks are maddeningly stupid and are a waste of Lightning's time and skills; an annoying mechanic i.e. the time limit that impedes on your ability to play it thoroughly, and Hope nags at you to use your time wisely every time you go back to the hub, etc. etc. etc. BLECH.
So is Diablo!
"dolls" v. "action figures" maybe? idk why i even bother making that comparison, i never got into any of the Diablo games either, i've honestly barely tried them.
i do know that i will happily spend time customizing the accessories and paint job on a gun in military shooter xyz but i am not interested in accessorizing ladies' outfits in japanese game xyz. that is just a preference, y'know i am not sure why it is getting so hardcore vilified.
It is pretty sad if it's true that X-2 is the best FF ATB game ever because I am pretty sure I'm never going to play it because of its extreme girliness. idk unless i can get into a place where i can appreciate it on a pure fanservice level but even then
what the fuck is 'too girly'
i don't even
too girly is something i personally have no interest in because of its girliness. you know, like sailor moon or creepy cartoon ponies show or whatever. something that is, you know..."for girls". (and that ironically i probably would have no interest in even if i was a girl)
You say that as though being 'girly' is a bad thing~ Frankly, if you can't handle a 3 woman party of awesome, that's not the game's issue. ;p
liberty why does it have to be ANYONE'S "issue"? why can't it just be that it's not for me/i don't like it? why does that have to be an issue? can't people have tastes without anyone getting offended?
you respond as though i had made the argument 'FF X-2 is objectively bad because it has girly stuff'. that's not what i said.
*sigh*
anyway hey MACBLO if I paypal you $1.05 will you fix the typo in the thread title it is bothering me?
Housekeeping
3571
I'm with Max on this one. There's a difference between having a female presence in a game--even a strong one--and a game being overly girly. It's offputting to me, too, because fashion and makeup and ponies and starshine are inherently asinine to me in the same way that bodybuilding meatheads wielding rocket launchers instead of their own cocks is asinine to most women (and me, frankly). I haven't played X-2 because it looks really, really asinine, and the fact that Yuna's big struggle is that she wants to help others because she wants to and not because she's told to confirms every suspicion I've had about that garbage heap. Seriously, what kind of struggle is that? How is that compelling in the slightest? It can keep it's sweet battle system; I don't want to play as a goddamn pop idol. Plus FF X sucked, anyway.
Housekeeping sums up my thoughts pretty well. I also found the Gears of War games pretty laughable for basically the same reason.
I've been struggling with that for quite a while. I feel there is nothing wrong with using smaller things (like just doing what you want to do when it is helping people) in stories, but some extremes can be rather off-putting. It might be more of a personal struggle, but too girlish things ruined many a thing.
I've come to appreciate it with a dose of humour and a grain of salt, but it can be too much sometimes.
And I'm not alone with hating FFX. Good to know.
Well, it shouldn't make us blind to anything else, at the very least.
I've come to appreciate it with a dose of humour and a grain of salt, but it can be too much sometimes.
And I'm not alone with hating FFX. Good to know.
Well, it shouldn't make us blind to anything else, at the very least.
