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BALANCING A (MOSTLY) TWO-CHARACTER PARTY
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unity
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CloseA future game I have in mind will have a good chunk of the game (or maybe the entire game, I'm still deciding) with just two party members. Therefor, I'm wanting to design the characters so that they'll really compliment each other in battle and keep battles fun despite only having a party of two. (This game won't happen for a little while, but I can't stop thinking about it and working on it in my mind, so I figured what the heck XD)
I'll leave a plot synopsis under here of the basic idea for any that are interested (it was also included on my idea thread):
tl;dr: You have an angel lady and a demon lady, and it'll be just them against the environment and monsters for a while.
I want them to have skills and abilities that compliment each other's, and reflect their angelic and demonic natures. All I've thought up so far is the stereotypical "make one a white mage and the other a black mage" dealy, but that's pretty boring. They certainly could have elements of that, but it seems like I could do a lot more with the two-person team.
Any ideas, suggestions, etc would be greatly appreciated :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
I'll leave a plot synopsis under here of the basic idea for any that are interested (it was also included on my idea thread):
This would center around a realm where angels and demons live, and they only stop all-out war by sending one of each of their warriors to an ancient protected battledome to solve issues by duking it out.
We have an angel lady protagonist and a devil lady protagonist, each growing up learning to hate the other's culture. They must fight in the battledome but during their fight, a catastrophe occurs, orchestrated by a mysterious third power that wipes out both of their civilizations.
They must team up to survive, and must solve the mystery of their world's demise. And maybe they get a little close to each other, despite their differences, over the course of the game <3 (Yes, more yuri from me XD )
They have to flee their world as it crumbles, only to find a vast, new world they never knew existed so close to their sheltered realm.
We have an angel lady protagonist and a devil lady protagonist, each growing up learning to hate the other's culture. They must fight in the battledome but during their fight, a catastrophe occurs, orchestrated by a mysterious third power that wipes out both of their civilizations.
They must team up to survive, and must solve the mystery of their world's demise. And maybe they get a little close to each other, despite their differences, over the course of the game <3 (Yes, more yuri from me XD )
They have to flee their world as it crumbles, only to find a vast, new world they never knew existed so close to their sheltered realm.
tl;dr: You have an angel lady and a demon lady, and it'll be just them against the environment and monsters for a while.
I want them to have skills and abilities that compliment each other's, and reflect their angelic and demonic natures. All I've thought up so far is the stereotypical "make one a white mage and the other a black mage" dealy, but that's pretty boring. They certainly could have elements of that, but it seems like I could do a lot more with the two-person team.
Any ideas, suggestions, etc would be greatly appreciated :DDDDDDDDDDDDD
I'm going to throw this question right back at you, and ask about how Remnants of Isolation did a two-person party. Because that game did it really, really well!
Alternatively, think about their personalities. I imagine that the angel would be selfless. What does that mean for combat? The ability to jump in front of an attack that would have targeted an otherwise weak ally? Granting protection in a general sense? Then, there's the the demoness. She would probably the one that dishes out the pain to a degree that she makes her prey wish they were dead! How does that translate to combat, though? Applying status conditions? Being a melee fiend (in a literal sense)? Things like that.
*Edit: I guess, in a sense, I'm saying to make the angel a tank, and the demoness a striker?
Alternatively, think about their personalities. I imagine that the angel would be selfless. What does that mean for combat? The ability to jump in front of an attack that would have targeted an otherwise weak ally? Granting protection in a general sense? Then, there's the the demoness. She would probably the one that dishes out the pain to a degree that she makes her prey wish they were dead! How does that translate to combat, though? Applying status conditions? Being a melee fiend (in a literal sense)? Things like that.
*Edit: I guess, in a sense, I'm saying to make the angel a tank, and the demoness a striker?
author=Marrend
I'm going to throw this question right back at you, and ask about how Remnants of Isolation did a two-person party. Because that game did it really, really well!
Thanks! Red_Nova's as much to thank for that as I am, though XD But it's a good point. RoI took the idea of relying on each other and made it a central theme, with spells powering up the partner's spells and such.
The angel and demoness don't have that sort of unity, and actively hate each other at the start, however, so a different kind of theme or feeling would be needed. As for their personalities, they're still being developed, but that's a good start. I'm wanting them to not be totally what you'd first imagine when you think of an angel's and demon's personalities, as it would be fun to mix it up a little.
I was going to say, RoI managed to do this really well with the combos!
One way you could possibly link them together is to have them share HP/MP pools, meaning that they have to protect each other lest they both die - probably begrudgingly, at first. You could probably come up with a million story reasons for why their life force is linked :)
Another idea is to have one character take a full support role, and one take a full offense role. The support character could use spells to buff the attacks of the offense character - similar to RoI's combos, but all the support/offense skills split to their respective characters, no exception (For example, the angel wouldn't deal direct damage, but could bless others to do her work?) This also gives you a little more room to experiment with support spells, since normally people totally ignore everything that doesn't deal direct damage - but if that's all the character has... You just have to make sure they're effective enough that the character doesn't feel less useful :P
One way you could possibly link them together is to have them share HP/MP pools, meaning that they have to protect each other lest they both die - probably begrudgingly, at first. You could probably come up with a million story reasons for why their life force is linked :)
Another idea is to have one character take a full support role, and one take a full offense role. The support character could use spells to buff the attacks of the offense character - similar to RoI's combos, but all the support/offense skills split to their respective characters, no exception (For example, the angel wouldn't deal direct damage, but could bless others to do her work?) This also gives you a little more room to experiment with support spells, since normally people totally ignore everything that doesn't deal direct damage - but if that's all the character has... You just have to make sure they're effective enough that the character doesn't feel less useful :P
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
Broadly speaking, you don't want the two characters to play like each other. They both have to have very different feels to them. Even something simple like a warrior paired with a mage should offer plenty of dynamic choices in battle to allow both characters to utilize various abilities.
As for your specific game, it really depends on how you want the angel and demon to act. If I were designing the game, I'd take both of their personalities into account when designing skills. Since I don't know anything about these characters, I'll just make some general assumptions using angels and demons as a whole:
I would have the demon character act really shady in battle, and have a skills that reflect a more aggressive style of play. Stealing is the first thing that comes to mind. Maybe enemies carry special items/weapons that the demon can take and use for herself. The second thing that comes to mind would be stat debuffs and lots of debilitating states. Make the enemy suffer by inflicting states like Bleeding(Damage over time), Fear (Dropping attack but raising defense), Fury (The opposite of fear), etc. I would also somehow implement a passive ability on the demon that increases her damage in inverse proportion to her health. Perhaps give the demon a Taunt skill that draws enemies to her so she can protect the more frail Angel?
If you wish to show off that the two characters dislike each other, maybe make the Demon able to Taunt the Angel? Anger the Angel into boosting her attack as a way for her to respond to the Demon's goading?
For the Angel, I would certainly make her more of a passive/ supportive character. Have her attack with more magic-focused attacks, and revert to healing/supporting the pair if the need arises. If the enemy can use magic barriers, then allow the Angel to dispel those so the Demon can come in full swing. The Angel would put status effects on the enemy like Serene (lowering attack and Defense but raising Magic), Sap (Constant draining of MP), or Slog (Reducing speed).
That's just off the top of my head.
As for your specific game, it really depends on how you want the angel and demon to act. If I were designing the game, I'd take both of their personalities into account when designing skills. Since I don't know anything about these characters, I'll just make some general assumptions using angels and demons as a whole:
I would have the demon character act really shady in battle, and have a skills that reflect a more aggressive style of play. Stealing is the first thing that comes to mind. Maybe enemies carry special items/weapons that the demon can take and use for herself. The second thing that comes to mind would be stat debuffs and lots of debilitating states. Make the enemy suffer by inflicting states like Bleeding(Damage over time), Fear (Dropping attack but raising defense), Fury (The opposite of fear), etc. I would also somehow implement a passive ability on the demon that increases her damage in inverse proportion to her health. Perhaps give the demon a Taunt skill that draws enemies to her so she can protect the more frail Angel?
If you wish to show off that the two characters dislike each other, maybe make the Demon able to Taunt the Angel? Anger the Angel into boosting her attack as a way for her to respond to the Demon's goading?
For the Angel, I would certainly make her more of a passive/ supportive character. Have her attack with more magic-focused attacks, and revert to healing/supporting the pair if the need arises. If the enemy can use magic barriers, then allow the Angel to dispel those so the Demon can come in full swing. The Angel would put status effects on the enemy like Serene (lowering attack and Defense but raising Magic), Sap (Constant draining of MP), or Slog (Reducing speed).
That's just off the top of my head.
Excuse me as I laugh at the irony of suggesting that character abilities should be based on personality, and having a two-player game where the abilities (and personalities?) of the characters are almost indistinguishable from each other.
Wow, these are some great ideas! A huge thanks, you guys! :DDDDDD Not sure exactly what I'm going to do, but this is terrific food-for-thought!
With the abilities that show the characters' dislike of the other, I'd want them to eventually transform into something else, to show that the two are starting to get along :D
As for the characters' personalities, I was thinking on having one extroverted and energetic, and the other quiet and withdrawn. Can't decide which should be which, as originally I had the idea for the angel to be the quiet one and the devil to be the energetic one, but swapping those the other way around seems like fun, too XD
With the abilities that show the characters' dislike of the other, I'd want them to eventually transform into something else, to show that the two are starting to get along :D
As for the characters' personalities, I was thinking on having one extroverted and energetic, and the other quiet and withdrawn. Can't decide which should be which, as originally I had the idea for the angel to be the quiet one and the devil to be the energetic one, but swapping those the other way around seems like fun, too XD
Flonne is a pretty good example of an energetic and naive angel, though she might piss you off hahah
so you're actually making this eh? cool! ♥
Can't wait to see *u*
btw if they were the only player characters in the game i'd go a little broader and just give them the vague concept of offense and defense, letting them build their own skills in whatever way they wish (physical/magical, mighty/agile, etc) xD
but that's because I found out that I'm a pretty obsessive minmaxing / customization bitch >_>
so you're actually making this eh? cool! ♥
Can't wait to see *u*
btw if they were the only player characters in the game i'd go a little broader and just give them the vague concept of offense and defense, letting them build their own skills in whatever way they wish (physical/magical, mighty/agile, etc) xD
but that's because I found out that I'm a pretty obsessive minmaxing / customization bitch >_>
The angel has an attack that absorbs life while dealing damage, the demon has an innate ability that whenever life is gained she recovers a small % of MP. (not sure if that can be done or not in Ace?)
The demon can put a special/type status effect on creatures like "Evil Aura" and the angel has a "rebuke" spell that deals extra damage to Evil/Undead creatures.
Just a few ideas, not the best but I like the thought being put in a two-party system, as I am comfortable with them in my games. (it's challenging and fun to make it work)
The demon can put a special/type status effect on creatures like "Evil Aura" and the angel has a "rebuke" spell that deals extra damage to Evil/Undead creatures.
Just a few ideas, not the best but I like the thought being put in a two-party system, as I am comfortable with them in my games. (it's challenging and fun to make it work)
author=InfectionFiles
The angel has an attack that absorbs life while dealing damage, the demon has an innate ability that whenever life is gained she recovers a small % of MP. (not sure if that can be done or not in Ace?)
The demon can put a special/type status effect on creatures like "Evil Aura" and the angel has a "rebuke" spell that deals extra damage to Evil/Undead creatures.
Wow, I like these ideas! Craze has a script that will make the "when life is gained" thing work. Is it specifically when the Angel absorbs life that the Demon recovers MP?
author=JosephSeraph
Flonne is a pretty good example of an energetic and naive angel, though she might piss you off hahah
Hehe, I actually love Flonne to death (unity loves a character who's all about love? WHAT A SURPRISE! XD) Unfortunately, her personality won't fit the more dire mood I'm going for here XD
author=JosephSeraph
so you're actually making this eh? cool! ♥
Can't wait to see *u*
Yep, though it may be a little while until it sees the light of day, as I have other games I need to finish first. But I can't seem to stop thinking about it. Which I guess is a good problem to have.
author=JosephSeraph
btw if they were the only player characters in the game i'd go a little broader and just give them the vague concept of offense and defense, letting them build their own skills in whatever way they wish (physical/magical, mighty/agile, etc) xD
but that's because I found out that I'm a pretty obsessive minmaxing / customization bitch >_>
Haha, so throw in a lot of customization to their skills? That's something to keep in mind, as long as it builds into the overall theme and feel of the game ^_^
author=unityYes, that is correct. :)author=InfectionFilesWow, I like these ideas! Craze has a script that will make the "when life is gained" thing work. Is it specifically when the Angel absorbs life that the Demon recovers MP?
The angel has an attack that absorbs life while dealing damage, the demon has an innate ability that whenever life is gained she recovers a small % of MP. (not sure if that can be done or not in Ace?)
The demon can put a special/type status effect on creatures like "Evil Aura" and the angel has a "rebuke" spell that deals extra damage to Evil/Undead creatures.
EDIT: I guess you could make it whenever she gains life in general. Not sure if something like that would get out of hand.
EDIT2: The skill Red_Nova suggested about the demon goading the angel to allow her to boost skills, what if alongside that she can also taunt/goad the enemy to attack her. Give her that tanky skill, that can also boost her companion.
The demon can have a similar innate ability that whenever she takes damage the angel recovers a small % of HP.
Making the demon have a multi-use taunt ability and a way to make her ally gain life when she tanks.
The demon can have a status effect skill that gives the angel a "lifelink" that makes her white hits absorb/drain damage
Would a script be necessary for the drain life ability? I mean, there is a "HP Drain" option in the drop-down box for damage type! Unless the ability is supposed to heal the party, rather than the user of the skill, (no to mention that I would have completely missed that part of the comment).
author=Marrend
Would a script be necessary for the drain life ability? I mean, there is a "HP Drain" option in the drop-down box for damage type! Unless the ability is supposed to heal the party, rather than the user of the skill, (no to mention that I would have completely missed that part of the comment).
It's specifically so the demon regains MP when the angel drains HP.
RyaReisender
200
As someone who really thinks a party needs to have at least 4, better 6 members, having a party consisting mostly of 2 characters seems scary, but there are a lot of ways to still make it good, though I'm not sure if they really apply to RPG Maker games very well.
Probably not an option, but making the whole battle system center around the fact that there are only two party members works. Say we make a real-time combat system, having only two character allows a single player to control both of them at the same time with a gamepad. For example make the two party members a slasher and a healer. You will move the slasher and press buttons to do attacks, the healer will stay behind you in protection and will react to command buttons like "Heal / Buff / Cure status effect / Use XYZ". Then center the whole combat system around that it's quite important which commands to give to the healer at the current moment. If you have some time to rest, ask for healing. The monster changes its element, ask for an new elemental enchant of your weapon. The monster prepares a really strong attack that will one-hit kill you, ask for a strong magical barrier.
When having to use a turn-based battle system an idea would be to just make a single hero kind of act like multiple heroes. Give each hero multiple actions per turn, but give them some restrictions so they can't just use the same action multiple times. Maybe each hero has multiple professions and per battle turn he can use one action of each profession. Or while you don't have limitations per-se on the skill use, you have some kind of time system, where you can decide ahead of time when each of your actions should be performed and then make it quite important to time it right. Say you are a Fighter/Magician/Healer and at full HP and you know that the monster will first put up a magic resist shield and then use a strong attack, the right tactic would be to first use your magic action before the shield is put up, then do a physical attack and then use healing after the strong attack from the monster.
Probably not an option, but making the whole battle system center around the fact that there are only two party members works. Say we make a real-time combat system, having only two character allows a single player to control both of them at the same time with a gamepad. For example make the two party members a slasher and a healer. You will move the slasher and press buttons to do attacks, the healer will stay behind you in protection and will react to command buttons like "Heal / Buff / Cure status effect / Use XYZ". Then center the whole combat system around that it's quite important which commands to give to the healer at the current moment. If you have some time to rest, ask for healing. The monster changes its element, ask for an new elemental enchant of your weapon. The monster prepares a really strong attack that will one-hit kill you, ask for a strong magical barrier.
When having to use a turn-based battle system an idea would be to just make a single hero kind of act like multiple heroes. Give each hero multiple actions per turn, but give them some restrictions so they can't just use the same action multiple times. Maybe each hero has multiple professions and per battle turn he can use one action of each profession. Or while you don't have limitations per-se on the skill use, you have some kind of time system, where you can decide ahead of time when each of your actions should be performed and then make it quite important to time it right. Say you are a Fighter/Magician/Healer and at full HP and you know that the monster will first put up a magic resist shield and then use a strong attack, the right tactic would be to first use your magic action before the shield is put up, then do a physical attack and then use healing after the strong attack from the monster.
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