[POLL] WOULD IT BE SEXIST TO HAVE DIFFERENT STARTING STATS BASED ON YOUR CHARACTER'S SELECTED GENDER?

author=Feldschlacht IV

author=Des
Given a cast of any significant size and level of development, I'm almost certainly going to make some characters bi whether you have any option to select your PC's gender or not, because elements like this can still significantly affect how characters relate to each other. I'm not going to be planning out every nuance of character interaction in advance from the beginning of the game, so it's not like I always know from the outset whether, say, the fact that a character is bisexual, or that they like to read fairy tales, is just going to be a random tidbit that informs how I think about them as a writer, or if it's going to manifest as a notable trait in the game.

I think this is important if that character's identity is important to the narrative; i.e. a character is gay where that character is expected not to be, say, he or she is royalty and expected to produce an heir, and so on.

I think a particular pitfall to be careful in is shoehorning that aspect of an identity where it's not relevant, which doesn't destroy the narrative or anything, but it can feel as if "Uh, where did that come from?"

But what if I don't want to make a game where the only reason someone is gay is to be an unfortunate victim of the cruel fate of the world? It shouldn't be considered shoehorning if they're able to get along just fine in the world without having their sexuality be a source of constant pain.

Like adding gender-based stats, adding bisexual characters is something that most people won't care about but will alienate some players. So if it isn't important to the game, it's once again something that there's just little point in adding, beyond maybe giving a middle finger to the people who are offended. If it is important to the game, then of course go ahead, give the middle finger to whoever you want in the name of art.

I want a game where I can date my weapon, like Transistor.

slashphoenix
I want a game where I can date my weapon, like Transistor.

you know what they say about witches and broomsticks

kentona
I want a game where I can pick the gender of my weapon.

but will it affect the weapon's stats

edit: also don't fuck with swords

You could say the same thing about gender-based stat differences though, Sooz. It's a completely identical situation. It adds something minor to the game, but has the potential to offend people and could be done another way. Most obviously, just not implying that there are sexytimes when you reach 100% relationship level. Fire Emblem is a good example of this, anyone can build a relationship with anyone, but the game only explicitly says that it's a romantic relationship in certain inoffensive situations.

Bioware gets away with it because it is important to their games. They are open world games where everything is driven by the protagonist's personal choices, that is actually the central theme of the games. Also, let's be honest, to a lot of players, their games are basically erotic simulator games that have way too much filler RPG garbage between the dating sim sections.

I think the escapism/reflection thing bears mentioning as well, for most things. The art we create is an extension of ourselves. I'm not really an escapism kind of guy, for example, so the art I see and create would be different than someone who sees it differently.

author=Drakov
There will be no gender based stat differences because I dont want to offend anyone. I never wanted to offend anyone with this post. I believe in gender equality and the only reason I wanted to do it was to give EVERY choice in character creation at least a small effect.

I don't think anyone's offended. I mean, any "-ism" word is kind of loaded with baggage, but at least in this discussion it doesn't seem to come with any particular judgment attached, just being used as a descriptor of a situation.

I'm pretty sure the discussion has blasted off from planet Your Game and is now somewhere in the Field of Hypotheticals, where we're mostly talking about games that only exist in our brains, usually as strawmen. You have achieved the dubious honor of having Started Discussion! Hooray!

(Seriously though you should worry a lot less about offending someone. Creating while walking on eggshells is a pointless pain. Just pay attention to discussions, listen to what the objections are on either side, and decide what you're down with. You can't avoid Internet Hate, so just figure out how to cope with it and try not to be a douche about it. You're doing a p. good job of it so far, just you can afford to be more confident about "Nah man, I'ma put in the Disney Princess romance shit and you're just gonna have to write smutty fanfic if you want the characters to bump uglies.")

ETA:

author=Corfaisus
This misses the very real possibility that women play video games, too.

Something something fake nerd girls :V

Hm... this has made me think of my own game, Dungeon Crawl, and how I did do the ol' stats affected by gender thing. Granted, stats are also affected by classes, but who's to say there isn't a slow thief or a weak soldier?

I believe the stats I tweaked were female, one less strength, one more agility and vice versa for men. Maybe. It's been a while since I touched the project.

IDK, I'm thinking from a gameplay point of view it was to vary the play style a bit more - not to say men and women are inherently different. I mean, the strongest character in that game is a woman (and boy-howdy will she fuck your day up if you mess with her). Then again, it's also a game where you can, uh, 'get close' to either male or female genders, regardless of your own.

Hell, in the demo if you play a female and save the girl that out-adventured herself, she'll still give you the kiss she was going to give you if you were also male.

And if people have an issue that I allow bi-sexual or homosexual interactions in the game that's their own problem. Play straight if you want to, frankly I don't care if you complain about a girl and girl kissing or a boy and boy flirting or if your character pursues both the male and female characters. That's the players choice and if they have an issue, fuck em. Seriously, I could give two fucking shits. I will allow for all sexualities to enjoy the game, regardless.

Also, just a heads up? I will never, ever tag a game or mention the sexuality of my characters before you actually play a game because fuck that shit. Pre-judging a game based on something like the sexuality of a character is bullshit and you should feel guilty if you do that. It's stupid. If you have an issue with that you need to work on your empathy a bit more.

author=Drakov
Basically my idea for character creation in the dungeon crawler I'm making is to have all of your stats begin at 5, but depending on which race, class, religion, and possibly sex you choose for your character you will either recieve bonuses or penalties ro your starting attribute scores.

My thought would be for male characters to recieve a +3 to strength and a +3 to
endurance, while female characters would recieve a +3 to dexterity and a +3 to
intelligence. All characters would be able to max these stats to 100 regardless of
their gender as long as their race and class allow it, obviously I wouldnt want to allow an orc barbarian to have 100 INT...

I just want to get people's opinion on this. I don't want to spend a year or 2 working on this game just to release it and have people get mad about something I came up with before I even created the new project file.

If you want that, make it an optional rule. As in, you can play it that way under the expanded rules, but for the normal game, gender does not affect gameplay. Then, it's less a matter of sexism, and more about playing the game with partial vs full rules.