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SOME ANALYSIS ON EARTHBOUND'S OPENING
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CashmereCat
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My favorite example of a great intro is still FF7. It doesn't waste time! A 30 second flyover of an industrial city splashed with quick cuts to high-speed train, fading into fast-paced music. No world history, no big dumb words, just action! You start with a backflip and a battle, and it's cool as heck. It suckers you in with action and just enough talk to make you wanna know more.
FF9 is great too. The entire opening segment is stellar.
author=unityauthor=SaileriusI will admit that Earthbound certainly isn't everyone's cup of tea and that it has plenty of slow spots. What RPGs would you point to that do it really well in that regard?author=unityAnd I think Earthbound definitely failed in that regard. I've tried to play Earthbound so many times but the beginning is so boring that I've never gotten past it.
I agree with your conclusion, to a degree. The mundane opening certainly adds something to the feel of Earthbound's opening. Just as long as "mudane" doesn't immediately equate with "boring," I think it's all good.
FFX and FFXIII both have really bombastic openings that do a great job of hooking you into the setting and characters right off the bat. Also importantly, they throw you into combat immediately while also providing you with ample contextual information that you don't feel like you're being tossed in the water without any reason to care.
author=spejokuauthor=bulmabriefs144sure! ^-^ It's an amazing game, and we can learn stuff about making other games from it.
That said, there are a number of weird things woven into the fabric of the game. Why just the open? Let's talk about the entire game!
First off, we should probably come up with a list of systems in the game. Like the turn based battles and the rolling health and magic meters. Then we can see how the systems help the plot or hinder it.
the ones that come to mind (and this is just a list of systems) are
top down pov
battles on contact, with preemptive attacks or ambushes based on how the enemy interacts with the character sprite
menu and turn based battles
scrolling health and mana meters
individual character inventories, with very limited capacity
no world map
and... that's all the systems i can think of, at least for just Earthbound.
You forgot a few. Also, Earthbound does have a world map, it's just mainly seen for like boat scenes and stuff.
- Auto-deposit banking with no money added on monster kill.
- Screen attack battles (both ways, see Giygas battle)
- Banking (and item storage)
- Timer system for events (you see this not only in that Threed wait puzzle, but also in stuff like item delivery)
- Item modification (condiments)
- Dummy party items (Teddy bears)
- Movable battle BGs
FFX and FFXIII both have really bombastic openings that do a great job of hooking you into the setting and characters right off the bat. Also importantly, they throw you into combat immediately while also providing you with ample contextual information that you don't feel like you're being tossed in the water without any reason to care.
I actually liked FFXII's opening. The whole military start where you learned moves as a soldier in formation. It was sorta slow, but you got the hang of things and the boss battle was kind of fun.
spejoku
0
author=CashmereCat
FF9 is great too. The entire opening segment is stellar.
ff9 was amazing. some of the final fantasies might be a bit hit or miss, but when they do it well they do it really really well.
FF9 was my favorite, you start with some cuts to the major players, and then you first really get to play as zidane on the ship. the game introduces the exclamation point notice system and the battle system, before telling the player that THEYRE GONNA KIDNAP A PRINCESS and that was fantastically exciting. Then you switch to vivi and you get to see a little of more mundane life as he gets to explore alexandria and try to see the play. In fact, for juggling four major characters at the very beginning, ff9 does a great job of making sure that each character gets enough screentime that the player can easily identify them and can start relating to them. There are stage fights, actual escapes, and you don't even get to the first real dungeon until the forest after you leave the city in an exciting airship escape. The prologue relies on context important scripted battles, switching perspectives, and unique characters to introduce the player to ff9.
edit:
I totally forgot about all those other subsystems. I wonder how difficult they were to implement.
Some of them are easy, some not.
Btw, Earthbound was built with custom code (it is a literal nightmare for translators who want to translate/graphically fix Earthbound to how it looks in Japan). I once read something about how just the scene near where they had landed the UFO under Threed was a crazy about of code for about four lines, and a few minor actions.
Auto deposit is simply using a variable, and omitting the standard money awards.
I've done screen attacks before (in Oracle of Tao, some monsters "attack the player"), it's just a custom attack, that hits the bottom/front of the screen (and the back in the reverse) and produces a shake effect.
Banking is easy, item storage is not (neither is single item management). In fact to do some of the things with items Earthbound can do, you would literally need to tweak the RPG Maker engine.
I'm wondering if someone can build a MotherSoft engine, that basically runs rolling exp, single slot items, and easy item storage.
The timer system is fairly easy. It's either just a hidden timer, or a system that cycles number addition.
Item modification would probably need this same single item thing, but basically checks for nearby condiments, then does an item check with both items. The problem being RPG Maker has a "if item possessed" rather than "if item used". We kind of need both.
I've done a battle based on hero/monster facing code. It's complicated to make, but I think you can common event it using variables, and then the only real thing you need to change is monsters. You also need to remember however that there is a level cap that monsters use where they run away if it's greater.
Top down POV is art. Unless you mean in battle. I've done this before too, shifting monsters and heros to a vertical position. In Earthbound's case this means effectively erasing the character, and placing them where the menu bar is. The problem is that all this arranging is for naught since if you are surprise attacked, they reverse everything horizontally (you need the characters where the portraits are). Menu and turn-based battles, well a good turn-based patch is still not done, but turn-based is easy to fake if you know what you're doing.
The dummy teddies is a bit tricky. You would need a battle system that is semi-automated (as in, it does not require you code for every skill/attack, but you can put code "if Teddy Bear is possessed" and it overrides normal targetting). That said, I'm fairly certain that this code runs on custom targetting.
Also, this may help...
http://starmen.net/mother2/gameinfo/technical/equations.php
Captain Muffin made an XP Earthbound Starter Kit. I dunno how far along the battle system is though.
Btw, Earthbound was built with custom code (it is a literal nightmare for translators who want to translate/graphically fix Earthbound to how it looks in Japan). I once read something about how just the scene near where they had landed the UFO under Threed was a crazy about of code for about four lines, and a few minor actions.
Auto deposit is simply using a variable, and omitting the standard money awards.
I've done screen attacks before (in Oracle of Tao, some monsters "attack the player"), it's just a custom attack, that hits the bottom/front of the screen (and the back in the reverse) and produces a shake effect.
Banking is easy, item storage is not (neither is single item management). In fact to do some of the things with items Earthbound can do, you would literally need to tweak the RPG Maker engine.
I'm wondering if someone can build a MotherSoft engine, that basically runs rolling exp, single slot items, and easy item storage.
The timer system is fairly easy. It's either just a hidden timer, or a system that cycles number addition.
Item modification would probably need this same single item thing, but basically checks for nearby condiments, then does an item check with both items. The problem being RPG Maker has a "if item possessed" rather than "if item used". We kind of need both.
I've done a battle based on hero/monster facing code. It's complicated to make, but I think you can common event it using variables, and then the only real thing you need to change is monsters. You also need to remember however that there is a level cap that monsters use where they run away if it's greater.
Top down POV is art. Unless you mean in battle. I've done this before too, shifting monsters and heros to a vertical position. In Earthbound's case this means effectively erasing the character, and placing them where the menu bar is. The problem is that all this arranging is for naught since if you are surprise attacked, they reverse everything horizontally (you need the characters where the portraits are). Menu and turn-based battles, well a good turn-based patch is still not done, but turn-based is easy to fake if you know what you're doing.
The dummy teddies is a bit tricky. You would need a battle system that is semi-automated (as in, it does not require you code for every skill/attack, but you can put code "if Teddy Bear is possessed" and it overrides normal targetting). That said, I'm fairly certain that this code runs on custom targetting.
Also, this may help...
http://starmen.net/mother2/gameinfo/technical/equations.php
Captain Muffin made an XP Earthbound Starter Kit. I dunno how far along the battle system is though.
spejoku
0
these are very handy, thank you very much! I think the screen attacks would be the most commonly used thing in other games, like Dragon Quest and similar.
With the item/condiments code, you could use maybe a common event to check for items possessed, and after you use the item with the condiment, it just deletes the item in the event? but the problem is that you might not be able to choose what condiment to put on it, or have difficulties when you have multiple condiments of the same name.
With the item/condiments code, you could use maybe a common event to check for items possessed, and after you use the item with the condiment, it just deletes the item in the event? but the problem is that you might not be able to choose what condiment to put on it, or have difficulties when you have multiple condiments of the same name.
Well, there is a plugin for skill checking, but it has to be called by comment (versus using the last enemy attack, though RPS+ could help with some tweaks). If it auto-recorded this after enemy attacks, this would help quite a bit. This would possibly help with both item usage, and with skill targetting common events.
Even without a plugin, you can track what item was used, with a workaround (make the item a skill scroll. Make a Turn 1x common event that checks for a bunch of skills, adds an effect, then removes the skill. The workaround is rather clunky though, as you have hundreds of combinations). Sorry, I just remembered I'd done this method.
Huh. So apparently, there's a program called PK Hack that lets people create custom ips patches of Earthbound. As in, not just colorswapped or minor text edits, they massively changed the story event flags.
http://hacks.lyros.net/
http://starmen.net/pkhack/pk_junk/down_hack.php
Of the ones that I found, some didn't seem to work, so basically the main ones:
ColinBound (Seems to be similar storyline with different characters. The "mom" is instead his wife, the "big sister" is his daughter, he has a giant floating skull for a "dog", and the "dad" is instead a company called "Save Incorporated")
TheRatRace (Earthbound from a female perspective, with Paula as the main character, Pokey as an old looking guy, and Poo as female. It seems to be heavy with conservative Christian overtones, but generally a similar gameplay experience)
Radiation's Halloween Hack (You play some bounty hunter. It's a bit disturbing, as in within five min the mayor of town described some monster movie murder to you. The battles are insanely hard, especially if you don't know where you're going. You start in Twoson instead of Onett)
HyperBound (I've heard the description and done a basic playtest. It's sorta trippy. You are constructing your own mind, and the more you talk to people the better stuff works, if you get things wrong graphics glitches start to build up)
Hallow's End (You start by trick or treating, then everything changes to a parallel dimension. It's fun!)
Holiday Hex (Sort of a Christmas Eve themed one)
and Equestria Bound (My Little Ponies. Yes, seriously)
I've got these ones prepatched, the others I had trouble getting to work. A shame, really, there was also a Zork one that was a text-based game using the item menu. And some Earthbound "sequels".
Even without a plugin, you can track what item was used, with a workaround (make the item a skill scroll. Make a Turn 1x common event that checks for a bunch of skills, adds an effect, then removes the skill. The workaround is rather clunky though, as you have hundreds of combinations). Sorry, I just remembered I'd done this method.
Huh. So apparently, there's a program called PK Hack that lets people create custom ips patches of Earthbound. As in, not just colorswapped or minor text edits, they massively changed the story event flags.
http://hacks.lyros.net/
http://starmen.net/pkhack/pk_junk/down_hack.php
Of the ones that I found, some didn't seem to work, so basically the main ones:
ColinBound (Seems to be similar storyline with different characters. The "mom" is instead his wife, the "big sister" is his daughter, he has a giant floating skull for a "dog", and the "dad" is instead a company called "Save Incorporated")
TheRatRace (Earthbound from a female perspective, with Paula as the main character, Pokey as an old looking guy, and Poo as female. It seems to be heavy with conservative Christian overtones, but generally a similar gameplay experience)
Radiation's Halloween Hack (You play some bounty hunter. It's a bit disturbing, as in within five min the mayor of town described some monster movie murder to you. The battles are insanely hard, especially if you don't know where you're going. You start in Twoson instead of Onett)
HyperBound (I've heard the description and done a basic playtest. It's sorta trippy. You are constructing your own mind, and the more you talk to people the better stuff works, if you get things wrong graphics glitches start to build up)
Hallow's End (You start by trick or treating, then everything changes to a parallel dimension. It's fun!)
Holiday Hex (Sort of a Christmas Eve themed one)
and Equestria Bound (My Little Ponies. Yes, seriously)
I've got these ones prepatched, the others I had trouble getting to work. A shame, really, there was also a Zork one that was a text-based game using the item menu. And some Earthbound "sequels".
spejoku
0
those are some nice resources. I've seen some of those fangames before, too, but the fact that they're changing the actual code is surprising.
Mainly though, I'm concerned about trying to recreate the humor and tone of earthbound and analyzing how it does that with or without the systems. Like how it uses humor and what kinds of humor, and how Ness' lack of personality allows him to be used as the straight man to everything around him, and how the game handles the transition from funny to terrifying.
As much as I enjoy earthbound I don't like some of it's systems and would prefer to work with some different custom ones.
Mainly though, I'm concerned about trying to recreate the humor and tone of earthbound and analyzing how it does that with or without the systems. Like how it uses humor and what kinds of humor, and how Ness' lack of personality allows him to be used as the straight man to everything around him, and how the game handles the transition from funny to terrifying.
As much as I enjoy earthbound I don't like some of it's systems and would prefer to work with some different custom ones.
Most of those games do have the general twisted humor (well, aside from Radiator's one, which is more like Mother 3 with outright dark humor) of the Earthbound game.
Holiday Hex for instance has evil Easter Bunnies that breathe fire and poison bite, while cultist types hide underground during winter.
I didn't bother much with Equestria Bound (not a brony) or ColinBound (despite a few interesting changes, it and Equestria Bound seemed needlessly glued to the events of the original).
HyperBound was in theory good, but I didn't have patience to talk to a bunch of people in what seemed to be a no-battle game. It was sorta like pizza without the cheese.
Earthbound humor is fairly distinctive, and so, fairly easy to recreate:
Also, here's the name of the movie Itoi probably saw which inspired Giygas (the year matches). 憲兵とバラバラ死美人 (NSFW warning)
Holiday Hex for instance has evil Easter Bunnies that breathe fire and poison bite, while cultist types hide underground during winter.
I didn't bother much with Equestria Bound (not a brony) or ColinBound (despite a few interesting changes, it and Equestria Bound seemed needlessly glued to the events of the original).
HyperBound was in theory good, but I didn't have patience to talk to a bunch of people in what seemed to be a no-battle game. It was sorta like pizza without the cheese.
Earthbound humor is fairly distinctive, and so, fairly easy to recreate:
- Goofy non-sequitor stuff
- Toilet humor
- Word puns (more in the Japanese version, but stuff like Lier X Agerate)
- Mock heroism (Sort of making fun of heroic cliches)
- NPC Oddity (this is a must; normal rpgs have over-serious townspeople who all tell you about the quest you need to do, instead townspeople should be into their own stuff)
- Pop culture references, especially disturbing ones (Happy happism for instance is based on Aum Shinrikyo)
- Disturbing stuff made into humor, in general (remember the police fight? It was based on an actual police brutality account)
Also, here's the name of the movie Itoi probably saw which inspired Giygas (the year matches). 憲兵とバラバラ死美人 (NSFW warning)
