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RPGMAKER HORROR GAMES NOWADAYS
Posts
Aquablue11
108
Aquablue11
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CloseHey, just a topic for you all.
How do you feel about rpgmaker horror games nowadays?
Like, to me, they all seem to be the same and don't really branch out on anything.
For instance, little girls or teenage girls seem to be a common use for a protagonist in horror games. I get they can be cute and all, but I feel the trope is overused a lot. I don't actually see a lot of rpgmaker horror games that feature young boys or teenage boys as the protagonist. I'm not saying that Rpgmaker games with female protagonists are bad and all*, but they just seem overused.
Also another instance with some of the storylines for them. Crazy yandere girls or the rape trope seem to be a common theme with some of the games. Dreaming mary is one and Mogeko's castle is another** I won't be going into the whole Amnesia trope, because That would make me just as bad seeing as I commonly use it too. (Hooray for the amnesia trope, gotta loved losing your memories)
Also, In rpgmaker horror games, I see stories about real life issues like family abuse, suicide or depression. But rarely do I see any backstory to it? ( I dunno I may just be being biased who knows, not even me) ***
*Cause damn, Mad father and Ib were some good games and I can name more
** While I found dreaming mary terrifying, I felt the story was a bit bland when the implications started coming in (Tbh I found painted heart more interesting then Dreaming mary) and Mogeko's castle just bored me from the first few minutes
*** The crooked man really touched up on these issues and that's one of the reasons why I like it
Well in the end, This is just my opinion on horror games nowadays. You don't have to take this to heart and I really don't want to offend anyone because of this (Then again if you are offended by an opinion that isn't like yours, then suck it up sunshine, I'm trying to state an opinion and you don't need to be a party pooper)
How do you feel about rpgmaker horror games nowadays?
Like, to me, they all seem to be the same and don't really branch out on anything.
For instance, little girls or teenage girls seem to be a common use for a protagonist in horror games. I get they can be cute and all, but I feel the trope is overused a lot. I don't actually see a lot of rpgmaker horror games that feature young boys or teenage boys as the protagonist. I'm not saying that Rpgmaker games with female protagonists are bad and all*, but they just seem overused.
Also another instance with some of the storylines for them. Crazy yandere girls or the rape trope seem to be a common theme with some of the games. Dreaming mary is one and Mogeko's castle is another** I won't be going into the whole Amnesia trope, because That would make me just as bad seeing as I commonly use it too. (Hooray for the amnesia trope, gotta loved losing your memories)
Also, In rpgmaker horror games, I see stories about real life issues like family abuse, suicide or depression. But rarely do I see any backstory to it? ( I dunno I may just be being biased who knows, not even me) ***
*Cause damn, Mad father and Ib were some good games and I can name more
** While I found dreaming mary terrifying, I felt the story was a bit bland when the implications started coming in (Tbh I found painted heart more interesting then Dreaming mary) and Mogeko's castle just bored me from the first few minutes
*** The crooked man really touched up on these issues and that's one of the reasons why I like it
Well in the end, This is just my opinion on horror games nowadays. You don't have to take this to heart and I really don't want to offend anyone because of this (Then again if you are offended by an opinion that isn't like yours, then suck it up sunshine, I'm trying to state an opinion and you don't need to be a party pooper)
None of the RM horror games these days scare me. Only SnowOwl's stuff can give me shivers down my spine just by looking at the images of his games. Every RM horror nowadays seems to have a scared loli/ and or cute artwork. Which is the last thing I'd expect from the genre. Most of the developers can't even do atmosphere properly. Most of them involve sticking the protagonist in a haunted house/hospital etc. with excessive use of lighting effect scripts and the usual cheap jumpscare.
Yet it seems to be the most popular genre on this site, and it irks me.
Yet it seems to be the most popular genre on this site, and it irks me.
I am... mostly ambivalent, slightly bemused, kind of disappointed.
I have zero interest in "horror" games of any sort, so I pay them very little mind. But hey, if people like to make them and other people like to play them, go for it! Who am I to impose my preferences on others? But I would like to see more traditional RPGs make headway.
I have zero interest in "horror" games of any sort, so I pay them very little mind. But hey, if people like to make them and other people like to play them, go for it! Who am I to impose my preferences on others? But I would like to see more traditional RPGs make headway.
The recent upward trending of "spooky loli" horror games and horror in general on VXA is super disappointing. It's just flooding the market with cruddy shovelware, and rarely is it ever even ATTEMPTING to be halfway decent or original in any way.
I'm a bit biased because I find horror games in general pretty dumb. Even famous RM titles like Ib are only below average at best.
I'm a bit biased because I find horror games in general pretty dumb. Even famous RM titles like Ib are only below average at best.
I mostly share Kentona's and Pizza's disappoint of view. I don't like lolis in games at all and It's a horror to me to hear about kiddos in horrors. An elder man is probably not as easy to be scared, naive, virgin and possessed with an ancient devil.
I tried to play One Night once and it was rather boring too. I should pick one of Owl's gams, but these screenshots are too scary.
I tried to play One Night once and it was rather boring too. I should pick one of Owl's gams, but these screenshots are too scary.
dinkledaberry
1378
I hardly have an interest to try most of the horror games on this site because most people don't seem to know or appreciate what a horror game should have. Atmosphere.
The only horror games in RPG Maker I've ever liked were "The Witch's House" and "Lisa the First" because they both nailed the unsettling feel necessary to that genre. Every other supposed horror game I've garnered enough interest to play has ended up being disappointing.
While I've never liked the genre much myself I wish the people eating this stuff up would be more I dunno...critical? A horror game without atmosphere is like a burger without meat.
The only horror games in RPG Maker I've ever liked were "The Witch's House" and "Lisa the First" because they both nailed the unsettling feel necessary to that genre. Every other supposed horror game I've garnered enough interest to play has ended up being disappointing.
While I've never liked the genre much myself I wish the people eating this stuff up would be more I dunno...critical? A horror game without atmosphere is like a burger without meat.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I have the feeling that you could pick any genre of gam and find that most of them all use the same cliches, mainly because most makers just aren't that interested in changing what's familiar to them. This just happens to be particularly egregious in horror because familiarity is anathema to fear.
As for the whole thing about little girls as protags... well, the thing in horror games is that normally your protag needs to seem helpless or at least ill-equipped against the horrors they encounter. Often, people are under the impression that an adult can handle things easily (an idea brought on by too many action movies and not enough paying attention to real life), whereas a child is helpless and innocent (also not entirely realistic, but more understandable). And, of course, we all know that little boys are sporty and like scrapping and being active, whereas little girls only ever play with dolls and dress up and never take karate or something, so obviously the most optimal vulnerable protag is a little girl. QED.
As for the whole thing about little girls as protags... well, the thing in horror games is that normally your protag needs to seem helpless or at least ill-equipped against the horrors they encounter. Often, people are under the impression that an adult can handle things easily (an idea brought on by too many action movies and not enough paying attention to real life), whereas a child is helpless and innocent (also not entirely realistic, but more understandable). And, of course, we all know that little boys are sporty and like scrapping and being active, whereas little girls only ever play with dolls and dress up and never take karate or something, so obviously the most optimal vulnerable protag is a little girl. QED.
Housekeeping
3571
I love horror. I'll say that most rpg maker horror games aren't particularly good, but then I'll also say that most rpg maker games in general aren't particularly good. I've played a few pretty solid ones--Ib being probably the strongest straight rpg maker horror game I've played. Snow Owl's got some killer ones, too.
The abundance of scared lolitas is definitely problematic. The abundance of lolitas in just about everything is problematic, really. I think it's a cultural thing that makes more sense in Japan but it's being emulated here without that cultural backing. So, to people who grew up immersing themselves in anime/manga/etc., it's just "a thing you do," and for people who didn't, it's weird and slightly pedophilic. If you're doing the molestation angle, though, then going with a lolita makes perfect sense. I know this is going to come off as weird and gross, but I think having a sexualized lolita (instead of the ultra-cute angle) could be jarring, engaging, and heartwrenching if handled deftly in a plot about molestation. So, I guess I can't say that I'm completely against using that type of character.
The abundance of scared lolitas is definitely problematic. The abundance of lolitas in just about everything is problematic, really. I think it's a cultural thing that makes more sense in Japan but it's being emulated here without that cultural backing. So, to people who grew up immersing themselves in anime/manga/etc., it's just "a thing you do," and for people who didn't, it's weird and slightly pedophilic. If you're doing the molestation angle, though, then going with a lolita makes perfect sense. I know this is going to come off as weird and gross, but I think having a sexualized lolita (instead of the ultra-cute angle) could be jarring, engaging, and heartwrenching if handled deftly in a plot about molestation. So, I guess I can't say that I'm completely against using that type of character.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
P. sure any time that's happened, it's attracted the wrong kind of audience. Or it was actually for creepy boners with a thin veneer of "no, no, really, it's supposed to be creepy! Really!" to try and disguise it.
There are good RPG Maker horror games out there. Aside from the previously mentioned ones, I particularly like Snow Owl's It Moves and Housekeeping's own God of Crawling Eyes. Red Nova's Psychostasis is a little rough around the edges but was another one I enjoyed.
I generally have trouble making horror games because I want to put RPG mechanics and combat into everything I make, and being able to fight the baddies lessens the horror aspect (so it instead becomes just really weird and not so much scary XD ) but I'm sure I'll be making proper horror games with Sooz at some point.
I generally have trouble making horror games because I want to put RPG mechanics and combat into everything I make, and being able to fight the baddies lessens the horror aspect (so it instead becomes just really weird and not so much scary XD ) but I'm sure I'll be making proper horror games with Sooz at some point.
author=Housekeeping
I know this is going to come off as weird and gross, but I think having a sexualized lolita (instead of the ultra-cute angle) could be jarring, engaging, and heartwrenching if handled deftly in a plot about molestation. So, I guess I can't say that I'm completely against using that type of character.
I'm with Sooz here, the problem with this is that adding any sort of sexuality to a kid is 1) playing to fanservice, and a dangerous one at that and 2) could be seen as "justifying" whatever creepy horror you're getting at. A horrifying scene should be horrifying - adding any sort of sexual titillation warps it into a totally different angle and a different kind of story,
I really haven't played many RPG Maker horror games, aside from a couple jump-scare ones for a competition - they added random screamers with no rhyme or reason. Don't... don't do that. It's a cheap way to spook someone and will almost certainly just make them hate your game. The only other ones that miiiight qualify as horror are Dreaming Mary and I'm Scared of Girls, both which are less horror and more just very sad adventure games.
I'd love to see some horror games that were less obviously "scary" and more just... unsettling, or panicky. Anything with some sort of implied time limit can create a lot of that "good stress" in a horror game. And like Unity mentioned, combat should probably be the player's last resort and focused on survival, not triumph. A game's not really scary or stressful if you can blitz through hordes of enemies >_>
Desertopa
775
I'm with Housekeeping, considering the kind of horror we tend to imbue the idea of sexualizing children with, if you're going for horror, revulsion or anguish, I think there's a lot you could accomplish with a sexualized child character, even if there are some audience members who would take it differently.
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be the one to try and pull it off.
On the other hand, I wouldn't want to be the one to try and pull it off.
Housekeeping
3571
Yeah, the key word was "deftly." I don't even have a good video game example because I haven't seen it done well yet, but, I mean, the thing about molestation is that it can easily make a kid sexually active/aggressive, which is something that makes us all defensive because it is unnerving. I think there can be horror there, especially since being unnerving is a space that horror often works in.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Yeah, I'm not gonna say it'd be impossible to pull off an actually horrific sexualized child, just that it's 1) extremely, punishingly difficult to manage that while NOT attracting pedo creeps; and 2) probably not worth it, given the fact that the subject is so tainted with the pedobait brush that normal people are going to generally avoid the hell out of it. The payoff's just not really worth the sisyphean effort it'd require, unless you're the kind of person whose only validation is "I did thing." (In which case you are probably not reading this anyway.)
Probably, yeah, since the actual coding stuff is still so entirely foreign to me that I'll at least need someone holding my hand throughout the whole thing. :D There's at least two I can think of that will def. involve your input! (Sometime after I've gotten things made we can talk about that Lovecraftian amusement park one.)
author=unity
I'm sure I'll be making proper horror games with Sooz at some point.
Probably, yeah, since the actual coding stuff is still so entirely foreign to me that I'll at least need someone holding my hand throughout the whole thing. :D There's at least two I can think of that will def. involve your input! (Sometime after I've gotten things made we can talk about that Lovecraftian amusement park one.)
Just to clarify: I'm talking about the game itself portraying the character in question as sexual. That's when you're getting into really potentially hot water because you're on the border of "horror" and "fetish porn". A horror game where the character isn't sexualized but the villain sexualizes them is totally different - at least, you have the potential there to explore strange mentalities and the mindset of a horrible being.
The example that always comes to mind is Kill La Kill, which is an action show, but:
the villain, who is also the heroes' mother, has a couple scenes where she molests her teenage daughters. It's probably an attempt to build her up as ruthless and brutal character, and does fit in with the story (it explains the overlying tension between her and her one daughter) but unfortunately, the framing of the scene makes it appear more fanservicey than brutal. It pretty much wrecks the idea that you're supposed to be mortified, IMO.
Anyway, designers really gotta take caution not to fall into the typical horror trap of using pedophilia / molestation as a shock tactic - it's about as cheap as an action movie trying to up the ante by simply adding more explosions.
The example that always comes to mind is Kill La Kill, which is an action show, but:
the villain, who is also the heroes' mother, has a couple scenes where she molests her teenage daughters. It's probably an attempt to build her up as ruthless and brutal character, and does fit in with the story (it explains the overlying tension between her and her one daughter) but unfortunately, the framing of the scene makes it appear more fanservicey than brutal. It pretty much wrecks the idea that you're supposed to be mortified, IMO.
Anyway, designers really gotta take caution not to fall into the typical horror trap of using pedophilia / molestation as a shock tactic - it's about as cheap as an action movie trying to up the ante by simply adding more explosions.
Red_Nova
Sir Redd of Novus: He who made Prayer of the Faithless that one time, and that was pretty dang rad! :D
9192
*Swells with pride at being mentioned*
Almost everything I wanted to say about the little girl protagonist was covered by Sooz. I'll just mention that putting the player in a more capable character's shoes can give them a sense of empowerment, even if there's no real gameplay to reflect it.
What I find scary in a horror game is when there's an active threat throughout. No, not instakills. Those are just as obnoxious and cheap as jumpscares. But the idea that you are locked into a location with something that is constantly trying to prevent your progress goes a long way to actually scare you. If you're just put into a creepy looking location and you're supposed to wander around, then that's not scary. It can be done right, but
There's also the issue of saving. Since RPG Maker lets you save anywhere by default, players that die just like, "oh well I'll just restart two steps away from where I died." Players feel no real drive to survive. They feel safe. If you're going to make a horror game, that is the exact opposite of what you want them to feel.
Speaking of default, I think the biggest problem with RPG "horror" games is the (mostly) lack of a personal touch each game gets. This might be an extreme one, but take Shichiya for example. Sure the story was made just for that game, but you open it up and are greeted with RTP maps and vanilla menus! I mean, really? The dev didn't even want to take the time to remove the equipment, formation, and skill commands? If you're trying to scare someone, you can't have all the default systems in place. It makes no sense.
Almost everything I wanted to say about the little girl protagonist was covered by Sooz. I'll just mention that putting the player in a more capable character's shoes can give them a sense of empowerment, even if there's no real gameplay to reflect it.
What I find scary in a horror game is when there's an active threat throughout. No, not instakills. Those are just as obnoxious and cheap as jumpscares. But the idea that you are locked into a location with something that is constantly trying to prevent your progress goes a long way to actually scare you. If you're just put into a creepy looking location and you're supposed to wander around, then that's not scary. It can be done right, but
There's also the issue of saving. Since RPG Maker lets you save anywhere by default, players that die just like, "oh well I'll just restart two steps away from where I died." Players feel no real drive to survive. They feel safe. If you're going to make a horror game, that is the exact opposite of what you want them to feel.
Speaking of default, I think the biggest problem with RPG "horror" games is the (mostly) lack of a personal touch each game gets. This might be an extreme one, but take Shichiya for example. Sure the story was made just for that game, but you open it up and are greeted with RTP maps and vanilla menus! I mean, really? The dev didn't even want to take the time to remove the equipment, formation, and skill commands? If you're trying to scare someone, you can't have all the default systems in place. It makes no sense.
author=unity
I generally have trouble making horror games because I want to put RPG mechanics and combat into everything I make, and being able to fight the baddies lessens the horror aspect (so it instead becomes just really weird and not so much scary XD ) but I'm sure I'll be making proper horror games with Sooz at some point.
That brings up another reason as to why these "horror" games kind of suck: developers are treating it as a cop-out to actually designing a functional RPG rather than something that needs its own specific care.
Because horror games are not typically heavily involved in terms of gameplay mechanics, they are easier to make in RPG Maker by comparison. Then, all you have to do is throw in every known trope there is attached to the genre and viola! You have a horror game...
Yeah, I think the only horror game I've enjoyed here was Lisa the First and Space Funeral (though the latter is more of a surrealist adventure with some horror elements, rather than a horror by itself).
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Ratty524
That brings up another reason as to why these "horror" games kind of suck: developers are treating it as a cop-out to actually designing a functional RPG rather than something that needs its own specific care.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. Do you mean that horror games are a result of someone saying, "Welp, I want to make a game in RPGMaker, but I don't want to bother with the RPG battle system"?
Because IME that is not so much the reason anyone chooses a specific genre. It'd be like going, "Welp, I want to make a cake, but I don't want to make it chocolate... I guess I'll have to make an orange-flavored cake with sprinkles on the icing!" People pick genres because they like the genre.
(Full disclosure I'm planning horror games without a battle system, but that's because I like horror and also don't give much of a crap about battles, not because I'm specifically trying to avoid them.)
I'm not sure. From the surface, making a horror game looks easy to some. If someone had an interest in both RPGs and horror, it's certainly possible that they might try to make an RPG Maker horror game rather than a traditional RPG just to avoid all the numbers and formulas. Of course, the gap between making a horror game and a good horror game is huge.
Horror games are at least as hard to make than normal games. They rely on atmosphere, which is hard to build. Battles and several gameplay elements often break atmosphere unless handled carefully. This is why most horror games only deliver monster chases and the like. Because normal battles break the atmosphere. The reason why most horror films are panned is not because they're bad, well yes they are, but it's also because horror is hard. Scaring someone is difficult, and often people judge a horror solely on its ability to scare, which I don't believe is a good metric.
Also, Pizza, I'm pretty sure you find most RM games dumb, not just horror games.
edit: if you're going to nix battles you're going to have to fill them with something that is just as engaging yet scripted by yourself, which I would argue is just as hard if not harder.
Also, Pizza, I'm pretty sure you find most RM games dumb, not just horror games.
edit: if you're going to nix battles you're going to have to fill them with something that is just as engaging yet scripted by yourself, which I would argue is just as hard if not harder.
