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ADDING HUMOR AND FUN TO SERIOUS STORIES!
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CloseThis is something I've been messing with for a while. I'm still a pretty inexperienced writer, and the most "serious" story I've written was Résumé, which dealt with a real-life subject, but the writing was all over-the-top satire. Writing that was easy, because it didn't need balance - I wanted it to be ludicrous, because it was poking fun at something ludicrous.
I want to figure out how to add levity to stories with serious themes. I'm interested in writing about more personal subjects, and I don't want to be flippant about them - things like dealing with depression, or fighting against the way you were raised - but I think that serious stories need a some light-hearted counterpoints. If everything's always grim and angsty, it doesn't hit very hard when something bad happens, right? This is even harder with games, IMO - how do you mix strategic combat about overpowering hordes of enemies with the loss of a loved one? I worry that sad, human themes and traditional RPG mechanics clash too much.
Do you think it's important for darker stories to have fun or humorous moments, or at least more neutral ones? How do you strike a balance between the two? Do you have any good examples of games, shows, or books that do this?
I want to figure out how to add levity to stories with serious themes. I'm interested in writing about more personal subjects, and I don't want to be flippant about them - things like dealing with depression, or fighting against the way you were raised - but I think that serious stories need a some light-hearted counterpoints. If everything's always grim and angsty, it doesn't hit very hard when something bad happens, right? This is even harder with games, IMO - how do you mix strategic combat about overpowering hordes of enemies with the loss of a loved one? I worry that sad, human themes and traditional RPG mechanics clash too much.
Do you think it's important for darker stories to have fun or humorous moments, or at least more neutral ones? How do you strike a balance between the two? Do you have any good examples of games, shows, or books that do this?
I'm a very silly person, and I find that weird and silly stuff seems to sneak into my games even if I try to make them serious. A lot of knowing when to hold back the silly and let the drama unfold comes from just experimentation, but just dialing it down during dramatic moments works well for me so far. I'm still very much learning about stories and writing myself, tho ^_^;;
Shinan
4314
One example that is thrown around a lot is the Marvel movies. They do fun bits fairly well. Of course some of the stories themselves are rather silly, so maybe they do more of serious bits inside silly bits.
I find that moments of light are often found in very personal things. Doing things like having the characters think something is sort of funny can do wonders. Humour is a big part of every day life after all and someone just making a silly observation that is completely in character but also just a light moment is character-building. I mean no one is dark and dire all the time. Fun is humanizing.
And on that I think that in serious stories the moments of light should come from character and should definitely not be fourth-wall breaking or winking at the camera. Nothing kills mood like directly adressing the player. (outside of tutorials which already kill the mood so there's that)
So yeah. Any well-rounded character will have fun bits to them and there's lots of love to be had in moments like "remember when..." and what starts oout light can also end darkly (War stories do this. "Remember when x was taking a shit and the artillery alarm went off?" everyone laughs and remembers awesome bits and then "I heard x's transport hit a mine last week." "Shit man." *raise glasses*)
I find that moments of light are often found in very personal things. Doing things like having the characters think something is sort of funny can do wonders. Humour is a big part of every day life after all and someone just making a silly observation that is completely in character but also just a light moment is character-building. I mean no one is dark and dire all the time. Fun is humanizing.
And on that I think that in serious stories the moments of light should come from character and should definitely not be fourth-wall breaking or winking at the camera. Nothing kills mood like directly adressing the player. (outside of tutorials which already kill the mood so there's that)
So yeah. Any well-rounded character will have fun bits to them and there's lots of love to be had in moments like "remember when..." and what starts oout light can also end darkly (War stories do this. "Remember when x was taking a shit and the artillery alarm went off?" everyone laughs and remembers awesome bits and then "I heard x's transport hit a mine last week." "Shit man." *raise glasses*)
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
You don't necessarily need to be silly in a serious game; you just need to lighten up or be comforting in some points. Sure, the easy out is throwing in a "we're going to need a bigger boat" line, but you'd need a distinctly wise-cracking character in order to pull it off.
Funny that you would start talking about this now, slash. This whole topic is in fact planned to be the main theme of my next bigger game project.
Shinan's advice about having humour come from the characters is definitely important. Most of the time, if you (as a writer/game maker) want to be funny, do it in such a way that the player doesn't consciously recognize it was you trying to be funny.
I do have another point to add: Try to get inspired by humour as it occurs in real life. In media, we often tend to draw a sharp line between "comedic" and "serious" material. But that distinction is artificial and doesn't exist in reality. Life is not only humorous or only serious. Both can occur right after one another, and often even simultaneously. If you work hard on making the situations and dialogue in your game feel natural, good opportunities for situational comedy should present themselves often enough.
P.S.: Some of the articles in this blog might inspire you as well.
Shinan's advice about having humour come from the characters is definitely important. Most of the time, if you (as a writer/game maker) want to be funny, do it in such a way that the player doesn't consciously recognize it was you trying to be funny.
I do have another point to add: Try to get inspired by humour as it occurs in real life. In media, we often tend to draw a sharp line between "comedic" and "serious" material. But that distinction is artificial and doesn't exist in reality. Life is not only humorous or only serious. Both can occur right after one another, and often even simultaneously. If you work hard on making the situations and dialogue in your game feel natural, good opportunities for situational comedy should present themselves often enough.
P.S.: Some of the articles in this blog might inspire you as well.
One thing I personally noted about any good movie, book, or just about anything involved in entertainment is that they have variety. Specifically, the variety in which they introduce changes in the tone or mood of a particular section in the plot.
I find this a good thing on the account that monotony can run the risk of losing your audience's engagement, because without it you aren't really giving them anything beyond what they would expect. Just as a crazy example, you think any Disney movie like Snow White would be heralded as a classic if the tone was happy-go lucky all the time? No, that movie threw in some darker elements where it was needed to keep the movie from feeling flat.
So of course, add some humor to break up the pace in a serious project, just be deliberate about where you put it so that you don't lose your project's coherency.
I find this a good thing on the account that monotony can run the risk of losing your audience's engagement, because without it you aren't really giving them anything beyond what they would expect. Just as a crazy example, you think any Disney movie like Snow White would be heralded as a classic if the tone was happy-go lucky all the time? No, that movie threw in some darker elements where it was needed to keep the movie from feeling flat.
So of course, add some humor to break up the pace in a serious project, just be deliberate about where you put it so that you don't lose your project's coherency.
Housekeeping
3571
I don't think you need humor, and I don't think good movies have to have humor to not be "flat." Antichrist immediately comes to mind as a film that only shifts from bleak to super bleak, and it was one of the most engrossing films I've ever seen.
For me, what's more important is authenticity. The more you write the more you realize that your writing is just a presentation of yourself on the page. It's dramatized and all, but you're still projecting yourself--at least when the writing is good. If you're not a particularly funny person, then I wouldn't expect there to be much humor in your work, and that's fine. Serious things are interesting too. If you force humor into your piece, it'll probably feel forced, anyway, and, worse case scenario, it's going to break immersion. Likewise, if you're a funny person, humor's naturally going to intrude into your writing, and it will be organic.
For me, what's more important is authenticity. The more you write the more you realize that your writing is just a presentation of yourself on the page. It's dramatized and all, but you're still projecting yourself--at least when the writing is good. If you're not a particularly funny person, then I wouldn't expect there to be much humor in your work, and that's fine. Serious things are interesting too. If you force humor into your piece, it'll probably feel forced, anyway, and, worse case scenario, it's going to break immersion. Likewise, if you're a funny person, humor's naturally going to intrude into your writing, and it will be organic.
Thanks, everyone :) You all have given me some really good ideas! This has helped me consider my approach for the project I'm working on now. I was worried that the light-hearted parts of the characters' dialogues would clash badly with more dire situations, but I think I can balance it in a natural way. The humor I'm considering stems from dialogue via differences and disagreements between the characters (instead of things like fourth-wall breaking or wacky antics) which fits with a somewhat serious plot and keeps things very human.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
I wrote this in reponse to one of Feldschlacht's blogs this week:
I'm not opposed to JRPGs that don't take themselves seriously, but I think there's a serious lack of ones that do. Western RPGs are way more likely to have you fighting nothing but threatening enemies in realistic situations, instead of making every tenth enemy be a smiley-face slime and winning battles with the power of friendship. You would never see an enemy like Ultros in The Witcher 3. Bringing that kind of serious, straight-laced action/drama aesthetic over to a linear, story-driven, character-centric, cutscene-heavy game has a tremendous potential for storytelling, and that potential really has yet to be unlocked in a successful big-budget RPG. (A few games in other genres, like Metal Gear Solid and Alan Wake, actually do a better job.)
I'm not opposed to JRPGs that don't take themselves seriously, but I think there's a serious lack of ones that do. Western RPGs are way more likely to have you fighting nothing but threatening enemies in realistic situations, instead of making every tenth enemy be a smiley-face slime and winning battles with the power of friendship. You would never see an enemy like Ultros in The Witcher 3. Bringing that kind of serious, straight-laced action/drama aesthetic over to a linear, story-driven, character-centric, cutscene-heavy game has a tremendous potential for storytelling, and that potential really has yet to be unlocked in a successful big-budget RPG. (A few games in other genres, like Metal Gear Solid and Alan Wake, actually do a better job.)
Housekeeping
3571
Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember Valkyrie Profile having any comedic moments. I loved that game.
@LockeZ: Yea, this topic kinda came about in response to that blog in combination with what I'm working on atm.
It's funny, I feel like for the most part all of the later Final Fantasies have been attempting to be serious in some respect - they deal with death, betrayal, family issues - but still fall back to the old hilarious enemies and occasional wacky situation. I haven't played the Witcher, but I think that removing every ounce of humor would lead to a dull game. And I definitely wouldn't say Metal Gear Solid games are humorless.
It's funny, I feel like for the most part all of the later Final Fantasies have been attempting to be serious in some respect - they deal with death, betrayal, family issues - but still fall back to the old hilarious enemies and occasional wacky situation. I haven't played the Witcher, but I think that removing every ounce of humor would lead to a dull game. And I definitely wouldn't say Metal Gear Solid games are humorless.
author=slash
@LockeZ: Yea, this topic kinda came about in response to that blog in combination with what I'm working on atm.
It's funny, I feel like for the most part all of the later Final Fantasies have been attempting to be serious in some respect - they deal with death, betrayal, family issues - but still fall back to the old hilarious enemies and occasional wacky situation. I haven't played the Witcher, but I think that removing every ounce of humor would lead to a dull game. And I definitely wouldn't say Metal Gear Solid games are humorless.
I feel like the Final Fantasies kind of take themselves TOO seriously in the sense that their character are so absorbed into their world that they don't even realize how ridiculous their surroundings are. Maybe that's how it should be, but to the player, it kind of takes them out of the game. It's a bit like watching a Saturday morning cartoon, just with deeper subject matters.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Taking yourself seriously when you're being serious is fine. Taking yourself seriously when you are controling a spherical mentally disturbed marshmallow-person with a slurpy tongue who battles with a gigantic salad fork, or a tiny cat robot shouting orders through a megaphone while sitting on the head of a giant were-moogle boxing robot that doubles as a coin-operated fortune teller, is another thing entirely.
FF8 mostly did a good job with being serious any time you weren't fighting. But then you got into battle and fought enemies like this or this. FF13 had a similar level of seriousness, and a similar problem.
It's not like I automatically hate that kind of stuff. I just want to see one plot-heavy JRPG without it. I can't even name one.
You wouldn't get a dull game. Not if you did it right. You'd get a real story. Dragon Age and L.A. Noire and Bioshock aren't dull games. Lost and Game of Thrones and 24 aren't dull TV shows. The Godfather and Lord of the Rings and Batman Begins aren't dull movies.
FF8 mostly did a good job with being serious any time you weren't fighting. But then you got into battle and fought enemies like this or this. FF13 had a similar level of seriousness, and a similar problem.
It's not like I automatically hate that kind of stuff. I just want to see one plot-heavy JRPG without it. I can't even name one.
You wouldn't get a dull game. Not if you did it right. You'd get a real story. Dragon Age and L.A. Noire and Bioshock aren't dull games. Lost and Game of Thrones and 24 aren't dull TV shows. The Godfather and Lord of the Rings and Batman Begins aren't dull movies.
author=LockeZ
It's not like I automatically hate that kind of stuff. I just want to see one plot-heavy JRPG without it. I can't even name one.
Final Fantasy Tactics is almost one (though it's a tactical RPG rather than a normal one). If not for the FF creatures, it's mostly pretty serious, right? Aside from stuff like summoning Mog to heal you.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
OK, FFT is actually a really good example of how to do it right. I should play the remake with the better translation so that I can actually understand the plot. It was incomprehensible in the original Playstation version.
The Ogre Battle team in general does a pretty good job with serious stories. Also, the Shin Megami Tensei series manages to stay serious in some games and is plot-heavy in others; I suppose there's probably one I haven't played where they do both. So I guess literally zero is an exaggeration. But it's like, you'd expect MOST story-driven games to be that way, not just one or two per decade? Is it a Japanese culture thing?
The Ogre Battle team in general does a pretty good job with serious stories. Also, the Shin Megami Tensei series manages to stay serious in some games and is plot-heavy in others; I suppose there's probably one I haven't played where they do both. So I guess literally zero is an exaggeration. But it's like, you'd expect MOST story-driven games to be that way, not just one or two per decade? Is it a Japanese culture thing?
Wait, while Witcher is a serious game, Geralt brings the burns and one-liners constantly. Other characters are also great for snarky remarks and it really creates a neat contrast between the dreary life of being constantly on edge from monster attacks and death vs finding something to laugh about, no matter how small. It really shows how humans can persevere with laughter, even if it's through dark humour and snarky observations/witty banter.
It's about the characters, though, not situations. Situations can be crazy/silly in serious games but you have to know when to bring the serious and when to be light-hearted. For example, Breath of Fire II (sue me) had a scene where you learn hints about the history behind Nina's wings. The scene ends in you being booted out of her own home, ignored by her mother (while her younger sister watches on in confusion) and basically told 'you are nothing to us'. Straight after this you meet Sten, who lightens the mood significantly by making Ryu 'disappear' in order to score a date with the two girls, Katt and Nina. It's a nice bit of light-heartedness after a solemn scene.
However, later in the game when things get really dark, there is no lightness because it is now the end of the journey - you have been given big reasons to suddenly get more serious about beating the evil in the world (including the death of one of your party's mother, the kidnapping of a ...friend... and the deaths of two people who you had become friends with - all within about 10-20 minutes). The game is afoot and the carpet to the end of the game has been rolled out. It's time to buckle down and go beat a bad guy. The game with talking animal people and bright, cheery colours has suddenly gotten very serious and it shows through dialogue and world layout/gameplay (for example, you can no longer call the Giant Bird to carry you around as she is chased away by demons when you try. You can still explore but there's no real reason except to pick up some treasures you might have earlier missed. From here on it's serious, it's end game.)
Stories are a constant up and down because plateau's would be a meadow without the dips. A good writer will make highs and lows in their stories to add variety. They will create contrast between joy and sorrow. One Piece (sue me again) does this very, very well, being extremely ridiculous a lot of the time but then making you fucking bawl over a ship for god's sake. Oda is a master story teller who spins you on a journey of ups and downs and the downs mean more because of the light-hearted contrast.
One game I can think of that was straight depression was Heavy Rain. Especially if you got the bad end. God, the bad end. Dear, dear God. What a depressing fucking game. It was a good game but not one you could play over and over and enjoy.
It's about the characters, though, not situations. Situations can be crazy/silly in serious games but you have to know when to bring the serious and when to be light-hearted. For example, Breath of Fire II (sue me) had a scene where you learn hints about the history behind Nina's wings. The scene ends in you being booted out of her own home, ignored by her mother (while her younger sister watches on in confusion) and basically told 'you are nothing to us'. Straight after this you meet Sten, who lightens the mood significantly by making Ryu 'disappear' in order to score a date with the two girls, Katt and Nina. It's a nice bit of light-heartedness after a solemn scene.
However, later in the game when things get really dark, there is no lightness because it is now the end of the journey - you have been given big reasons to suddenly get more serious about beating the evil in the world (including the death of one of your party's mother, the kidnapping of a ...friend... and the deaths of two people who you had become friends with - all within about 10-20 minutes). The game is afoot and the carpet to the end of the game has been rolled out. It's time to buckle down and go beat a bad guy. The game with talking animal people and bright, cheery colours has suddenly gotten very serious and it shows through dialogue and world layout/gameplay (for example, you can no longer call the Giant Bird to carry you around as she is chased away by demons when you try. You can still explore but there's no real reason except to pick up some treasures you might have earlier missed. From here on it's serious, it's end game.)
Stories are a constant up and down because plateau's would be a meadow without the dips. A good writer will make highs and lows in their stories to add variety. They will create contrast between joy and sorrow. One Piece (sue me again) does this very, very well, being extremely ridiculous a lot of the time but then making you fucking bawl over a ship for god's sake. Oda is a master story teller who spins you on a journey of ups and downs and the downs mean more because of the light-hearted contrast.
One game I can think of that was straight depression was Heavy Rain. Especially if you got the bad end. God, the bad end. Dear, dear God. What a depressing fucking game. It was a good game but not one you could play over and over and enjoy.
TheNecromancer
3160
Star Trek does a good job of this, though when they have super serious stories they don't tend to try and sneak in the humor. Which is probably a good thing.
Desertopa
775
author=LockeZ
OK, FFT is actually a really good example of how to do it right. I should play the remake with the better translation so that I can actually understand the plot. It was incomprehensible in the original Playstation version.
Honestly, I thought the remake's translation was a lot worse than the original. I mean, it was better in that it didn't have any of the "this was the darkened items won't appear" bullshit that was in the first translation, but the really major translation issues were almost all confined to non-plot-related parts of the game. But most of the original version's dialogue is delivered in a style of direct simplicity. The last line in the game is quite possibly my single favorite line in all the games I've played, and it's just five words composing a question in such simple terms a kindergartener could understand it, but it's a question with the weight of a superbly developed character arc behind it. The remake, on the other hand, is full of faux-Elizabethian purple prose which I felt ruined the presentation. The remake could have shored up the weak areas and made the dialogue less stiff and more reflective of natural speech, but instead the dialogue ended up overblown and grandiloquent and thus even more unnatural.
author=Housekeeping
Maybe I'm forgetting something, but I can't remember Valkyrie Profile having any comedic moments. I loved that game.
As far as I remember, Valkyrie Profile has exactly one moment of attempted comedy, during the scenes leading up to the True Ending, which was pretty out of place considering the entire rest of the game leading up to that point. But at least it didn't break the fourth wall or otherwise trivialize the significance of the narrative, so it wasn't as disruptive as it could have been.
Valkyrie Profile didn't have particularly well written dialogue, and had a lot of weak voice acting, but it did a great job developing a consistent aesthetic and tone.
Vagrant Story probably took itself completely seriously throughout the entire narrative, but I'm not sure because I never finished it. I kept getting lost and the environments were ridiculously dark and hard to see properly, and I had trouble beating the bosses because I never figured out the bizarrely obtuse crafting system rules. I tried playing it again once I read about them online but I gave up almost immediately once I rediscovered how dark the environments are, since I was fed up with not being able to see what I was doing. It can be useful to develop a consistent aesthetic throughout the entire course of the game, but making design choices in the service of a consistent aesthetic doesn't exempt them from being obnoxious.
The only other JRPG I can think of off the top of my head which takes itself completely seriously according to a consistent atmosphere is Parasite Eve, which I'd definitely say was improved by it. The sequel seems to have had some slight fourth-wall breaking elements in the gameplay, but I never finished that one either; the transition to tank-controls along with combat mechanics heavily dependent on evasion just got on my nerves too much.
Lyrahel
805
I think this really depends on multiple factors...
Is your game a serious short story? If yes.. then no, I don't think silliness or jokes fit much in there, because it distracts too much from the matter at hand.
Stories with lots of chapters, introductions to characters, their relationships and multiple confrontations to problems give us silliness to make the setting and characters more likable and relatable.
Games and TV Shows like, The Last of Us, The Witcher, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones etc... All have more jokes in them then you expect them to have.
A game or a story that tends to thrive for being taken seriously from beginning to end can end up stiff and sometimes even give the impression of not being serious at all. Why? Because we can relate to funny moments. We can bond with characters that are human. Of course they laugh, cry, get angry and fall in love. All these small bits need to be inside of a story.
The bigger question would be HOW to implement these bits in a fitting way and that is another topic. xD
Liberty said it perfectly in my opinion. I wish I could write that well in english. >__<
Is your game a serious short story? If yes.. then no, I don't think silliness or jokes fit much in there, because it distracts too much from the matter at hand.
Stories with lots of chapters, introductions to characters, their relationships and multiple confrontations to problems give us silliness to make the setting and characters more likable and relatable.
Games and TV Shows like, The Last of Us, The Witcher, Dexter, Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones etc... All have more jokes in them then you expect them to have.
A game or a story that tends to thrive for being taken seriously from beginning to end can end up stiff and sometimes even give the impression of not being serious at all. Why? Because we can relate to funny moments. We can bond with characters that are human. Of course they laugh, cry, get angry and fall in love. All these small bits need to be inside of a story.
The bigger question would be HOW to implement these bits in a fitting way and that is another topic. xD
author=Liberty
It's about the characters, though, not situations.
Stories are a constant up and down because plateau's would be a meadow without the dips.
Liberty said it perfectly in my opinion. I wish I could write that well in english. >__<
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
OK, yeah, let me clarify my above points, because we're talking about two different types of humor/silliness here and not defining them very well.
It's one thing for the characters to have a sense of humor occasionally. The humor in The Witcher is like that. No problems with that. You can create a flippant, sarcastic character like Varric in Dragon Age and add a hell of a lot of humor to a game in a totally inoffensive way that doesn't diminish the impact of the game's serious moments at all.
It's another thing entirely for the game to sometimes not take its story and its world seriously. When I get challenged to a bike race against a half-man half-motorcycle cyborg with a bunch of robot groupies in Chrono Trigger, it does more than just lighten the mood - it also breaks the game's immersion. The situation is funny, but I can't possibly imagine it actually happening. Chrono Trigger is cartoony enough all around that it fits perfectly and the game gains far more than it loses from scenes like that - but that kind of stuff ends up in more serious stories way too often for my tastes, and I'd like to see more games where it doesn't happen.
It's one thing for the characters to have a sense of humor occasionally. The humor in The Witcher is like that. No problems with that. You can create a flippant, sarcastic character like Varric in Dragon Age and add a hell of a lot of humor to a game in a totally inoffensive way that doesn't diminish the impact of the game's serious moments at all.
It's another thing entirely for the game to sometimes not take its story and its world seriously. When I get challenged to a bike race against a half-man half-motorcycle cyborg with a bunch of robot groupies in Chrono Trigger, it does more than just lighten the mood - it also breaks the game's immersion. The situation is funny, but I can't possibly imagine it actually happening. Chrono Trigger is cartoony enough all around that it fits perfectly and the game gains far more than it loses from scenes like that - but that kind of stuff ends up in more serious stories way too often for my tastes, and I'd like to see more games where it doesn't happen.
