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THIS PETITION IS TOO DAMN IMPORTANT TO BE IGNORED. (TRIGGER WARNING)

Posts

Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
author=Corfaisus
Just because we're centered around game design doesn't mean that we can't discuss some real shit from time to time. We're all adults here, we can handle it.


We'll see.

I hope the petition is a resounding success.
Ciel
an aristocrat of rpgmaker culture
367
author=Liberty
FFS, even if the images were consensual at the time, after you break up you delete that shit because it's fucking assumed that they are no longer fucking yours to keep. They end to be yours the moment that person is no longer your lover.

i've been on both sides and i always assumed pictures like that taken by either participant were kept after breaking up if you wanted, or deleted if you didnt want them. like if it was consented at the time you can ask them to delete em later but you prob should have considered that at the time. i wouldnt have agreed to it and then later be like NO I TAKE IT BACK but i dont really make irrational emotion-based decisions in the moment so that's just me. on the other hand i would trash em if requested

this discussion actually came up with former s.o. and we were both like yea keep that shit. guess we some weirdo bohemians

maybe it's a creepy thing if you break up on bad terms but otherwise i feel like it can be a memento of a time you shared your life intimately with someone, so not 'autodelete as hard rule'. its not even like 'heh i have naked pictures' but like i guess i'm 99% unlike archetypical males because that kind of stuff can mean something to me primarily on an emotional/nostalgic level

but i also assumed that both members of the former relationship would lay down their lives to prevent others from ever seeing them. keep that on top security lockdown, showing others private pics is extremely dirtbag/weird
^ Actually, yeah. That. If you have a proper agreement with the other that you can keep what they sent, then that's fine. Of course, if there's no agreement or discussion, (or they specifically ask that you remove them) you should either remove them OR protect them so that they are for your eyes only.

No sharing them around like an asshole.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Ciel
tomorrows kotaku headline: rpg maker forum user 'ciel' defends rape culture in shocking forum post

trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning

author=Corfaisus
We're all adults here

doobie quite
author=Kylaila
There is a difference between rape and pictures or events that took place willingly. In her case the videos had been filmed without her consent in their relationship - in which case the sex was consensual. Filming it and uploading it was not.
Which would obviously go to that example with three girls you cited as well. I can tell you all here would be aboard with that, but your own view and expectation of us collides here.

author=Kylaila
Your point is valid making it different from sexual assault, but it is also valid that it can ruin the victim's greatly, and can be an extreme humiliation. It is as though your body gets abused.
Your general way of phrasing it up to now is not. Sometimes people turn ugly without you expecting it. I don't think domestic violence starts from the first date, either, and it doesn't make it any more righteous or better.


My phrasing is fine your comprehension is not. Belief is not evidence or knowledge and decisions that change or impact an entire society should not be made based off of this. Ironically Chrissy agrees with me on this one if you bother watching some of her videos. Atheism after all is very much defined by it's lack of evidence stance and it's stance toward taking political and socially geared actions based on lack of hard evidence or knowledge. She can believe she's been physically attacked all she wants but anyone with half a brain will tell you she was not physically attacked. At least not because a video was uploaded. It was not literally sexual violence. There are a huge list of crimes she can charge this asshole with and mental anguish is just the first one that comes to mind.

author=Kylaila
For me, I couldn't care less about what exactly it is called, so long as it becomes illegal.
I'm sorry you had some bad experiences yourself, and use them to go against other people's experiences.


So you don't care about what happens as long as it's made illegal? So if she shoehorned in that all newborns should be castrated to prevent rape you'd be okay with it? I wan't it to be illegal too. The only difference between me and you is that it appears I've actually been around the block so to speak and want it done the RIGHT way not in a slip shod bullshit manner.

author=Kylaila
And also, I couldn't care less about being right or wrong here, either. I've already voiced my thoughts. So feel free to indulge in your conflict-thriving which I believe must be very useful in other areas of your life.


You are mostly reasonable here. However have you looked at the evidence? Or are you like Corfaisus wanting me to go off of one sides claim? If she was raped that's awful. However I don't see evidence of that. I do see evidence of sexual harassment in the form of uploading a video. Sorry but read that petition and make sure you read the near bottom part where she wants it to be treated like sexual assault...also known as RAPE in some states and in the rest the attempt of rape. Sorry, but no, I'm not signing a petition no matter how bad the situation is for someone if they shoehorn in their own political bullshit. It's intellectually dishonest.

author=Liberty
FFS, even if the images were consensual at the time, after you break up you delete that shit because it's fucking assumed that they are no longer fucking yours to keep. They end to be yours the moment that person is no longer your lover.


Wrong. Those belong to them as it's pictures of them. They were never yours to begin with but simply being lent to you for personal use.

author=Liberty
As for distributing them or using them in some sort of bullshit power play? If you do this, you are scum. And no, there's no apology in that sentence nor will there ever be. You are literal scum. No questions, no excuses. Literal fucking scum.

There absolutely needs to be laws put in to stop this shit.


Yes it is bullshit. What is equal bullshit is wanting the law to say "Hey this is on par with rape.". It's simply not. I'll support the end of this shit because it's stupid but I will not support doing so while shoehorning in your own ideals and views on the matter to the point of making it on par with sexual violence.

author=Liberty
Oh, and Tyranos, it sounds like you need to learn to get over shit and let it go. You're clinging on to the bad feeling that an ex gives you instead of moving on to bigger, better things.


Not at all actually. Let's see where you clearly didn't comprehend my posts because of emotions.

author=Liberty
In your own words, you would deliberately make their life hell if you could - and I can only assume you mean that if she had ever sent you any sexual photos you would have spread them around like a complete and utter asshole. That attitude is pathetic. Grow up and move on.


Uh yeah you clearly missed the part where I mentioned deleting that shit. So why on earth if she suddenly sent me pictures would I turn on that action and the action and values shown here AGAINST revenge porn and take the action you assume? I'm talking about the fact that some serious shit happened involving the threat of drugging and raping my ex and my ex defending the scum who did it. Coincidentally that's what made me walk away. Now I'll certainly flag them as drug users which means guess what when they get on a plane? Cavity searches! Anyways try to comprehend what you read and take all of it in. By no means do I support sexual harassment in any form. However I don't support druggies taking their drugs everywhere with them so cavity searches it is! Oh and I sued.

author=Liberty
Get some help if you can't do it yourself because the only person you're really hurting most is yourself by being someone no-one would ever want to date.


Uh no. Look at the above post and say that to my current girlfriend.

author=Magi
Well, this thread turned rather quickly!


No it was founded on bullshit to begin with. Where a man said "Someone claimed this so sign this petition without reading the bottom line!". Sorry no. I'm not passing judgement before seeing evidence. Was she harassed? Yes. Was she raped? Not according to what I've found. Sorry if you jumped on a bandwagon before doing research. But I will not sign something that clearly states revenge porn should be considered rape. It's not sexual violence. I'll gladly sign anything that wants it to be treated as sexual harassment however. Just don't try to shoehorn in some stupid bullshit like "It's really rape." and give the reason "Because I say so" or "Because I don't like it and it needs to stop". According to that logic we should just nuke the middle east because it will certainly stop the happenings over there wouldn't it? It's overreaction and too severe a punishment.

author=Magi
I am not sure if you are aware, but social justice isn't interested in defending anything but marginalized peoples. There aren't any talking points, no multiple angles, and feels all around. Unfortunately, everybody else can get thrown under a freakin' bus.


Right that's why it's called "Social and Criminal Justice" not "Marginalized Peoples Justice".

author=Magi
In spite of the facts and the story, this isn't really a cause that should exactly be controversial to support. Sign the petition or don't, but if you continue pursuing this you are opening a massive can of worms on sensitive social issues that probably aren't appropriate to tackle here. This is a games making community for (mostly) all ages. Can't we just agree rape is bad and then focus on making/playing good games? I like that a lot more. I hope you do too.


It is controversial because it wants to change a law which impacts EVERYONE not just the person here and now. Now were it not saddled with making sexual harassment into sexual violence (again rape in most states) I would gladly sign it. But no I'm telling you why I won't and here Corfaisus decides to use the victims claims. Bullshit. Use evidence next time not ANECDOTE.

Now get back to making games and stop supporting the spread of stupidity. I'd rather be playing games than sitting here telling people the same shit over and over because they don't bother to comprehend what they read and let their white knighting emotions take control. This is a site about games and this thread should really be locked as it's making the entire community look stupid. Seriously have you guys actually read the shit you've posted?
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Tyranos
comprehend


author=Tyranos
white knighting emotions

And the truth floweth forth. #Gamergate

But I'm with Tyranos, let's lock this thread because one douchebag came in and shit in the punchbowl... repeatedly.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
Fuck you, Tyranos. You belligerent peice of shit. :)
Magi
Resident Terrapin
1028
author=InfectionFiles
Fuck you, Tyranos. You belligerent peice of shit. :)


author=Corfaisus
We're all adults here, we can handle it.


author=Ciel
trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning trigger warning
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
I'm actually not advocating the route of being an adult if that helps.
It doesn't.


Don't insult people - insult the puerile ideas they spit forth instead. But lets keep it friendly-like, m'kay? Or else.

@Tyranos: As anyone here can tell, you do have issues. That you don't see that is obviously a big indicator that you're living in denial about said issues. Perhaps seeing a counsellor or something will help you finally understand just why people are calling you out on said issues since you can't see it yourself. Feel free to show them this thread at the time.



Guys, let's not start up with gamershutthefuckup again, please. We all know what happened the last million times that shit showed up here.
Ratty524
The 524 is for 524 Stone Crabs
12986
author=Tyranos
It is controversial because it wants to change a law which impacts EVERYONE not just the person here and now. Now were it not saddled with making sexual harassment into sexual violence (again rape in most states) I would gladly sign it. But no I'm telling you why I won't and here Corfaisus decides to use the victims claims. Bullshit. Use evidence next time not ANECDOTE.

You do realize this is not the first case of slut-shaming to happen, right? People have even committed suicide because of this. You are severely undermining how serious this issue is. If the law was changed to suppress it, I'd be in full support!

Seriously have you guys actually read the shit you've posted?

Have you done the same?
Petition signed, of course. I like to think I'm a relatively open minded and understanding person, but I don't think I could trust or associate with anyone who thinks potentially-life-destroying-revenge-porn is acceptable.

I dunno. Yes. It's stupid to take nudes and whatnot, yes, yes indeed. That still doesn't give anyone the right to share it with the world. If the person was okay with and wanted to display their nude body to the world, they would have done so themselves.
Max McGee
with sorrow down past the fence
9159
Before the relationship ended, and without my knowledge or consent, my ex filmed himself having sex with me, and when we broke up he posted them online and they were shared to over 30 pornography sites.

It wasn’t until two years after they were posted, when a link to one of those videos was emailed to me, that I found out they existed or even that this sexual encounter had taken place.

This is extremely strange wording that she is using. It makes it sound like she is actually saying that she was unaware that the sex act happened at the time it happened. I don't understand how this is even physically possible. (Unless she was unconscious from a date rape drug, but that is not the kind of thing anyone films and uploads to the internet, because it is clear evidence of you committing rape, so that can't be it.)

So yeah, the wording is just very confusing to me.

Revenge porn overall is a complicated, thorny, really interesting topic. Is everyone aware of the biggest scumbag in the world, his rise to power and his inevitable downfall? It makes for fascinating reading (Wikipedia's summary is dry and sparse, but check out the links). It even has a happy ending, because he is in jail now, and hopefully what happens to you sometimes when you go to jail is happening to him.

Obviously the "victims" of revenge porn are adults who made poor decisions. Even if it is obvious who the actual bad actors are here (very very very sleazy guys and their websites). The poor judgement involved should at least be acknowledged because women are not infants. Letting anyone get nudes of you or whatever in the era of the internet if you want any kind of control over where they wind up is a very bad idea. Maximum dumb.

If it happened in 2000-2005 you could certainly plead naivete convincingly, especially with the "internet" still in the process of taking over the world. But nowadays...everyone, male or female, should know better. Don't take nudes et al they will wind up on the internet in the worst imaginable context. This should be not just common knowledge but universal wisdom at this point.
Zeigfried_McBacon
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
3820
author=Max McGee
Obviously the "victims" of revenge porn are adults who made poor decisions. Even if it is obvious who the actual bad actors are here (very very very sleazy guys and their websites). The poor judgement involved should at least be acknowledged because women are not infants. Letting anyone get nudes of you or whatever in the era of the internet if you want any kind of control over where they wind up is a very bad idea. Maximum dumb.

If it happened in 2000-2005 you could certainly plead naivete convincingly, especially with the "internet" still in the process of taking over the world. But nowadays...everyone, male or female, should know better. Don't take nudes et al they will wind up on the internet in the worst imaginable context. This should be not just common knowledge but universal wisdom at this point.


In this era of raspberry pi's, Digital camcorders at affordable prices, and other goodies that make spying easy as hell. Its a lil harder to keep nudes off the internet when youre not the one taking them or uploading them, let alone authorizing them.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=Max McGee
Before the relationship ended, and without my knowledge or consent, my ex filmed himself having sex with me, and when we broke up he posted them online and they were shared to over 30 pornography sites.

It wasn’t until two years after they were posted, when a link to one of those videos was emailed to me, that I found out they existed or even that this sexual encounter had taken place.
This is extremely strange wording that she is using. It makes it sound like she is actually saying that she was unaware that the sex act happened at the time it happened. I don't understand how this is even physically possible. (Unless she was unconscious from a date rape drug, but that is not the kind of thing anyone films and uploads to the internet, because it is clear evidence of you committing rape, so that can't be it.)

So yeah, the wording is just very confusing to me.

Revenge porn overall is a complicated, thorny, really interesting topic.

I know that my dad tends to forget everything that happened the night before when he's been drinking heavily. Chrissy's also stated that her ex drank significantly less that night and was the one to initiate the sexual encounter, which kind of lends itself to the rape allegations.

It's also said that later, after being dumped, the ex attempted to commit suicide, failed, and ended up royally screwing up his brain somehow (I'd assume due to his choice of suicide method). How messed up he is now remains to be seen as he's apparently still anonymous, so it's debatable whether he'd be competent enough to stand trial.

Then again, thinking "under the right circumstances, publicly shaming an ex-lover by exposing every inch of their privacy would be okay" kind of scares me. It's pretty obviously never okay.

author=Zeigfried_McBacon
In this era of raspberry pi's, Digital camcorders at affordable prices, and other goodies that make spying easy as hell. Its a lil harder to keep nudes off the internet when youre not the one taking them or uploading them, let alone authorizing them.

No question. Have you seen the occasional video pop up on Youtube of some guy at a convenience store recording an unsuspecting woman's muffin top, yoga pants or whatnot?

If you're quick and "lucky" (implying this could be considered in any way a good thing) enough, I'm sure you could capture a picture/video of just about anything, regardless of the subject's approval or knowledge of such material.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
It's sad when a company is more forward-thinking and progressive than the government...
pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
32388
author=Max McGee
Before the relationship ended, and without my knowledge or consent, my ex filmed himself having sex with me, and when we broke up he posted them online and they were shared to over 30 pornography sites.

It wasn’t until two years after they were posted, when a link to one of those videos was emailed to me, that I found out they existed or even that this sexual encounter had taken place.
This is extremely strange wording that she is using. It makes it sound like she is actually saying that she was unaware that the sex act happened at the time it happened. I don't understand how this is even physically possible. (Unless she was unconscious from a date rape drug, but that is not the kind of thing anyone films and uploads to the internet, because it is clear evidence of you committing rape, so that can't be it.)

So yeah, the wording is just very confusing to me.

Revenge porn overall is a complicated, thorny, really interesting topic. Is everyone aware of the biggest scumbag in the world, his rise to power and his inevitable downfall? It makes for fascinating reading (Wikipedia's summary is dry and sparse, but check out the links). It even has a happy ending, because he is in jail now, and hopefully what happens to you sometimes when you go to jail is happening to him.

Obviously the "victims" of revenge porn are adults who made poor decisions. Even if it is obvious who the actual bad actors are here (very very very sleazy guys and their websites). The poor judgement involved should at least be acknowledged because women are not infants. Letting anyone get nudes of you or whatever in the era of the internet if you want any kind of control over where they wind up is a very bad idea. Maximum dumb.

If it happened in 2000-2005 you could certainly plead naivete convincingly, especially with the "internet" still in the process of taking over the world. But nowadays...everyone, male or female, should know better. Don't take nudes et al they will wind up on the internet in the worst imaginable context. This should be not just common knowledge but universal wisdom at this point.


Actually, people do slip women date rape drugs and film and upload the sexual encounters. You'd think it was a confession of rape, but there was a case a couple years back where three highschool football players did just that to a girl at a party. They were acquitted of the rape because their defense was that she had been drinking and gotten drunk in the first place. Basically, it was a she-had-coming defense and the judge and jury agreed.
There seems to be a disconnect between both sides in this thread. Tyranos vs everyone else. He's talking about the legal side of things and everyone else is talking about the social/emotional side. Or at least being limited to their own personal feelings and knowledge with no room for anything else. Even if you only watch Law and Order you should know how complex this shit can be and it doesn't matter what you think/feel. At the end of the day it has to follow the rule of law. Just like any other issue.

I don't know much about the specifics of law but what he's saying isn't all that crazy and I fail to see what he needs "help" with. Because he's disagreeing with you? Because you are suggesting and making assumptions on his stance on the issue? (even though he's clearly said he's against revenge porn)

Yes there should be something done about this but applying the wrong classification isn't the answer. From what I can tell that was his whole point and he provided a lot of sensible points to back that up. As opposed to what most other people are saying to back up their viewpoint, which even I can tell wouldn't hold up in a court of law. If he is a law person than he would know better than anybody else here the complexity of law. Most of us are clueless to those complexities so we don't even know the real implications of classifying this as rape. In your mind it will 'get the job done' but what are all the possibilities? You don't know, and that's the point. Sure there are some/many cases where rape is involved, but I'm sure we all know that sweeping generalizations are never good. What if there is a case where it was shared by accident? You're going to jail for rape, buddy.

I would think that making a new classification would be the best answer(this applies to all kinds of stuff like copyright in the digital age). Not to automatically apply old labels such as rape. Which, I would think, is specific to the act itself. Not what happens after. Does anybody here know all the specifics as to what constitutes rape and what will actually hold up in court? I think Tyranos made some valid points and I would agree that most people here are too driven by emotion. If you are not a lawyer, don't try and make laws. Strive for positive change but also be aware that you are not always right just because you feel you are. I'm sad to see how nonobjective people can be on these issues. Laws shouldn't be based on emotion and each case should be looked at individually.

I again want to advocate that these kinds of threads should be banned on RMN.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
You should start a petition.