OF GAMES, REPRESENTATION, AND WOMEN'S CHEEKBONES

author=mawk
you're going to great lengths to pretend that the only people who have these problems are your strawman otherkin, and it's getting hard to believe that you're arguing in good faith. either you're feigning ignorance on purpose, or your entire understanding of this subject is word-of-mouth from dubious sources.

Wow, just again completely miss the point, why don'tcha?

author=mawk
is this the false origin they're passing around on the chans now? it's not very convincing.

If you care so much why don't you look it up and spare me the trouble, I heard it from my brother, who is a pretty reliable source, he checks his facts. Your shallow assumption to assume I'm a channer not only shows you're running dry on any sort of solid basis for your responses, but also that you're just keeping an argument going, lucky for you, this is something I'm pretty happy to debate about. I only wish you were a bit more sensible about it. Am I accusing you of going to tumblr or reading the Guardian? No, because that's juvenile and accomplishes nothing. Also it leaves me open to being deemed a presumptuous butthole, see? I'm debating, or trying to, from what I've read you're essentially just trying to rile me up, not that it will work.

author=Corfaisus
Women should grow a pair of testicles so that they can be men so that they don't have to be offended that their gender is being portrayed as inferior to men. Testicles are great, and because I've got two of them, that means I'm double-great!

Take it easy, it was a metaphor, maybe I should have used spine instead since you are bent on preening over details like that when it's just a conceptual metaphor for what could take place.

author=Corfaisus
It was easier back in the 90s - back when men were men - because those girls knew their place and stayed quiet during game time.

Oh
my
god.

Project much? I didn't even mention feminism. I'm not sure what I think about it personally, but it's not the focus of my debate here.

author=Corfaisus
Slippery slope to what? Child slavery? Won't someone please think of the- shut that baby up?

Okay, since you can't seem to piece together simple English sentences like is expected on an American forum run by a canadian that has a focus on Japanese gaming, allow me to patronizingly spell it out for you.

Say a word like retarded gets censored by whatever firm, pretty noble right?

All games that previously used retarded in them are now in the crossfires of being purged from existence, banned.

And this could happen to virtually any word, and imply visual connotations as well.

Half of the villains and heroes we known and love from video games, could be getting erased if SJW's or/and Femnazi's who you seem to think I'm talking about get their way.

THAT'S THE SLIPPERY SLOPE I was talking about, not fucking... whatever the hell you just said?

There are several different groups of Feminists too, some a lot more rational and intelligent than others, some who'd seek to castrate men at birth (whom I typically refer to as Femnazis), thereby ultimately bringing an end to the human race. But, that's not even the focus of my thing here, all I was trying to say is that we shouldn't let SJW's have a negative impact on games. Feminism had nothing to do with it, so please, put the power point presentation away about how I'm a misogynist, I'm not. At least, I think that's what you were trying to show yet bearing no basis or even any quotes?

Like, dam son, if you're gonna try to debate with me at least show some integrity.

author=BowelMovement
Half of the villains and heroes we known and love from video games, could be getting erased if SJW's or/and Femnazi's who you seem to think I'm talking about get their way.

THAT'S THE SLIPPERY SLOPE I was talking about, not fucking... whatever the hell you just said?

Oh, so like how gays being allowed to marry destroys families.

author=BowelMovement

author=Corfaisus
Slippery slope to what? Child slavery? Won't someone please think of the- shut that baby up?

Okay, since you can't seem to piece together simple English sentences like is expected on an American forum run by a canadian that has a focus on Japanese gaming, allow me to patronizingly spell it out for you.

You're not the first person to imply that I have no idea what the fuck I'm talking about. Both times, however, it's pretty easy to see how wit and opposing "logic" don't mix.

Maybe lay off the crack?

For what it's worth, I agree with some of the points BM bring up. If everyone in the SJW crowd would have their say in what should and should not be allowed, we would not have any games, or anything creative at all for that matter, left. The world is changing, there's no doubt about that, but that doesn't mean you need to remove everything that came before the change. I think old creative works from any genre, be it games, literature, movies or whatever is an important part of history. If nothing else, we can learn what not to do from them.

I also think that you should be allowed to express yourself without fear of being attacked by people just because they don't like how you portrayed a certain character. Within certain limits, I should probably add, before people say I condone nazism or something.

There's a certain tendency among people on the internet the last few years to demand that anything offensive be destroyed. Where do you draw the line? You can't please everyone, or rather; you can't avoid offending everyone.

There has also been a tendency for the last few years for people to try shut down discussion about Social issues or their impact on the media(often by being snarky). You what? There are people who get hyperoffended. Do you know how many of them have been on this thread? 0. Zip zilch. Not even one.

author=mawk
there... really isn't, unless you're one of those people who thinks that criticism is equivalent to censorship. in general, I don't think that anything useful can be said on this subject as long as you pretend that there's some powerful cabal of hyper-offended stereotypes out there.

You say there isn't, I say there is. You're probably part of the hyper offended stereotype, so I doubt you would notice. After all, you do seem to be offended by pretty much anything anyone ever says.

bahleted

I really sort of think that a lot of the posters in this topic are just fundamentally opposed in their beliefs to the point where discussing it is guaranteed to be unproductive at worse and hostile at best.

I'm not saying I think the entire topic needs to be abandoned, but definitely some people need to stop engaging each other.

author=mawk
there... really isn't,

mawk, normally I agree with everything you're saying, but I disagree here. Come to Seattle if you haven't already, the mindset of 'everything offends me' is a real thing among some folks here over the past few years and there's enough people who subscribe to it that make it more than a strawman non-real argument for bigots who hate discussions on the status quo.

It's really annoying when you get people who are so passionate about fighting for the rights for marginalized people that they're not a part of themselves (in my case relevant to me, when I see overzealous white folks fighting the fight for minorities) it gets to the point where I have to say 'thanks for helping, but Shut. Up.' It's even worse in Portland.

It makes actual discussions and solving problems really fucking difficult when you have people lecturing actual Japanese people on 'cultural appropriation' because they're wearing Japanese clothing (which actually happened, by the way).

I have no real thoughts on the topic being discussed here in general though (I haven't caught up), just wanted to pop in and say that.

There has also been a tendency for the last few years for people to try shut down discussion about Social issues or their impact on the media(often by being snarky). You what? There are people who get hyperoffended. Do you know how many of them have been on this thread? 0. Zip zilch. Not even one.

If you can't see the perpetually offended outrage brigade's presence here, I think that you critically failed your Perception Test sir and/or madam.

***

hey can someone let mawk know that I have him on ignore. so he probably should not waste his time attacking me because i won't see it. for instance i wouldn't have known at all if not for BM quoting it with his masterfully jujitsu like riposte.

also maybe somebody could let him know that personal attacks aren't cool but nah? why would we want to enforce forum rules in a non-selective or fair way or anything. that would be crazy. only one side has to worry about their tone, after all.

Also yeah I support GamerGate, what of it. :D

Beyond that: I agree with pretty much everything that The Artist formerly known as BizarreMonkey said. Rock on. Sanity and reasonableness also came from SnowOwl and from Mog.

I am a staff member of this site, and while I am not a moderator, curating a non-hostile atmosphere is something I have taken fairly seriously ever since it became apparently a couple years ago that people were having problems here. Isn't it funny how nobody ever complains about it except you? If you feel my actions are unbecoming and inappropriate for a staff member of this site, you can lodge a complaint with the greater administration, but I assure you you won't win.

I strongly recommend you just stay away from this topic, Max. Don't say I didn't warn you.

Oh boy.

I am not complaining about curating a non-hostile atmosphere, because that is something I actually approve of (shit, where was any attempt to do that here a few years ago). What you are doing is entirely different. It is censorship which you are obviously a really big fan of. "You're not allowed to say 'tranny' because some people find it triggering." Give me a fucking break, dude. Those people need to take Stephen Fry's advice. I am increasingly of the blanket opinion (though obviously there are exceptions) that if you are being offensive, you are doing it right, and if you are being offended, you are doing it wrong.

I have no interest in lodging a complaint with the current administration, dude. I know which way the wind blows. I am talking directly to you. I am telling you that in short, you are a bad person in a position of (obviously quite trivial, but still demonstrable) power. The fact you are in a position of power is not a counterargument to the fact that you're a bad person, nor do your threats or the position you're in to silence, censure, or harm me change my feelings about your conduct one iota. I say this really only because of the 00.000001% (and I'm not sure I put enough zeros after the decimal place) chance that you might actually reflect upon your behavior and realize where you are in error. But I'm not holding my breath. Do whatever you've gotta do and call it whatever you want to pretend it is. After all, you will anyway.

http://femhype.com/2015/08/03/video-games-are-utterly-failing-trans-gamers-its-time-we-did-something-about-it/

Ok, WetMattos this article is kind of like...exactly what we're talking about. It's a "thinkpiece" that obviously comes from extreme radical crazytown. It's not mainstream, it's not impartial, and it's not academic. It's like the equivalent of quoting Fox News or Breitbart, only moreso, because those aren't extremist enough. Maybe The Daily Stormer? It's alarmist, sensational, seething with unjustified faux-outrage, and creating an entire mountain range out of an issue that is not even a molehill for the vast, vast, vast overwhelming majority of gamers (and, although I have no data on this, I would still bet money that it's not even an issue for the vast, vast, vast majority of trans gamers). Normal people, straight, gay or whatever, do not give a crap about this shit. SJWs aka the perpetually offended outrage brigade, are the only people who care or lend credence to these types of articles.

author=WetMattos
Take my advice. Grab your things, and retire yourself from this thread. It'll do both of us good.

I'd listen to that Max.