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OF GAMES, REPRESENTATION, AND WOMEN'S CHEEKBONES
Posts
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Sooz
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Closeauthor=TehGuyAgain, I think that, unless you're either really famous or otherwise making yourself obvious to the douches of the internetor being a douche thyself; that'll get you on some rather unfavorable radars as well.
Well, I'm going by the assumption that we already know that "talk shit get hit" is a thing.
author=Alichains
Personally, the only I had with Wet's posts is that they're big walls of text, which are tempting to gloss over even when they're written at a third grade level. Most of it wasn't hard to follow due to the context if nothing else.
There's a lot of vocabulary in there that makes it harder to parse properly for the layman. (See: the edits I did to the OP.)
Like, I know what she's saying, but I can definitely see where there's a disconnect.
Hm, before anything else, i apologize for misunderstanding your point, Sooz, and i am deeply grateful for the correction. I'll need some time to fully ponder on your points, but be sure i'll be far more careful this time around.
Uh, i don't want to make this look like an excuse or justification, it's intended to be more of explanation, since i have am a bit more emotionally available now than i was before and Kylaila was very kind of unpacking some things that have been pointed out here, something i'm deeply grateful of.
First, i want to apologize for some very unkind approaches i took to some people. There's a great deal of defensiveness of my part when dealing with this theme, and i could have choose another ways to express myself.
Second, i'm seeing a great deal of comments about my way of writing. Without going in many details, my education of english as a second language made me very formal, alongside some personal quirks it can make me look like a prick, and i'm aware of it - one of them is that i am very verbose, so yeah.
Another thing entirely is that i use a lot of academic language, and the reason for that is twofold. The first is defensiveness. It has been very easy to get dismissed on the ground of feelings, and this has lead into an attempt to attach value to my position. The second, a derivate of the first, is that academic language, for me, is kinda common language. I started learning because i had to make sense of my feelings and experiences, which common language does not, or do so very superficially. And since i did got really into it really fast, more often than not it's far easier to just reference where i saw it before even starting to explain, which does not make for good debate.
Also, someone raised that i've been talking a lot about transexuality and not about everything else. It has a lot do to with defensiveness, and a lot to do with a perception of mine that talking about other groups, specially the ones which i'm not a part of, demand a lot more of tact. Combine the two, and you'll get someone who have been choosing the easy way, to the detriment of the conversation.
Again, i'd like to apologize, and once again thank everyone who is still around.
Now, Solitayre, i probably can create a primer on this. Can't give real deadlines, but just poke every other hour i'll have it done before you notice it. Like, i'm going to start doing it now, but poking me always wield a lot of results.
Sooz, go meta. Like, for real, you're good at it, and meta discussions are always great. I, for one, I'm enjoying a lot ^,^
iddalai, would you be so kind to point out which double standards you mean? I have an idea, but i'd like to avoid any kind of misunderstandingafter the many i had 'till now.
Uh, i don't want to make this look like an excuse or justification, it's intended to be more of explanation, since i have am a bit more emotionally available now than i was before and Kylaila was very kind of unpacking some things that have been pointed out here, something i'm deeply grateful of.
First, i want to apologize for some very unkind approaches i took to some people. There's a great deal of defensiveness of my part when dealing with this theme, and i could have choose another ways to express myself.
Second, i'm seeing a great deal of comments about my way of writing. Without going in many details, my education of english as a second language made me very formal, alongside some personal quirks it can make me look like a prick, and i'm aware of it - one of them is that i am very verbose, so yeah.
Another thing entirely is that i use a lot of academic language, and the reason for that is twofold. The first is defensiveness. It has been very easy to get dismissed on the ground of feelings, and this has lead into an attempt to attach value to my position. The second, a derivate of the first, is that academic language, for me, is kinda common language. I started learning because i had to make sense of my feelings and experiences, which common language does not, or do so very superficially. And since i did got really into it really fast, more often than not it's far easier to just reference where i saw it before even starting to explain, which does not make for good debate.
Also, someone raised that i've been talking a lot about transexuality and not about everything else. It has a lot do to with defensiveness, and a lot to do with a perception of mine that talking about other groups, specially the ones which i'm not a part of, demand a lot more of tact. Combine the two, and you'll get someone who have been choosing the easy way, to the detriment of the conversation.
Again, i'd like to apologize, and once again thank everyone who is still around.
Now, Solitayre, i probably can create a primer on this. Can't give real deadlines, but just poke every other hour i'll have it done before you notice it. Like, i'm going to start doing it now, but poking me always wield a lot of results.
Sooz, go meta. Like, for real, you're good at it, and meta discussions are always great. I, for one, I'm enjoying a lot ^,^
iddalai, would you be so kind to point out which double standards you mean? I have an idea, but i'd like to avoid any kind of misunderstanding
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Yo WetMattos good on you for that post. :D
And yeah, the big problem isn't necessarily the academic and formal style as it is just the words (like the ones I replaced in my repost of your point). This is probably double hard for you because of the second language thing, since VOCABULARY!
But yeah, I'm mostly riding you on this stuff because you are reminding me a LOT of me a few years ago, so I want to help someone grow out of the same mistakes I was making then. As a fellow anxiety-sufferer, I want to reiterate that it is 100% A-OK to disengage from a discussion if you feel yourself getting upset. Anxiety and panic only lead to stupid things in these situations. (Heck, my own social anxiety issues are why I don't engage very often in like 90% of these discussions- arguing on the internet is not the best way for me to help representation of various minority-types!)
But yeah, I'm hoping we can move out of the derails and into some more hardcore discussion of minority stuff in gam mak. (Might be an idea to make a new thread with a more focused OP and some ground rules, like "This is specifically about this topic, go make another thread if you want to argue whether the topic is necessary at all.")
And yeah, the big problem isn't necessarily the academic and formal style as it is just the words (like the ones I replaced in my repost of your point). This is probably double hard for you because of the second language thing, since VOCABULARY!
But yeah, I'm mostly riding you on this stuff because you are reminding me a LOT of me a few years ago, so I want to help someone grow out of the same mistakes I was making then. As a fellow anxiety-sufferer, I want to reiterate that it is 100% A-OK to disengage from a discussion if you feel yourself getting upset. Anxiety and panic only lead to stupid things in these situations. (Heck, my own social anxiety issues are why I don't engage very often in like 90% of these discussions- arguing on the internet is not the best way for me to help representation of various minority-types!)
But yeah, I'm hoping we can move out of the derails and into some more hardcore discussion of minority stuff in gam mak. (Might be an idea to make a new thread with a more focused OP and some ground rules, like "This is specifically about this topic, go make another thread if you want to argue whether the topic is necessary at all.")
Mayhap, we'll see.
That aside, Sooz, i might ask you for a review on the primer i have been writing. It's far from complete, but if could take a look, just to point out if the tone i choose is adequate, i'd be very glad ^,^
That aside, Sooz, i might ask you for a review on the primer i have been writing. It's far from complete, but if could take a look, just to point out if the tone i choose is adequate, i'd be very glad ^,^
author=Sooz
Well, I'm going by the assumption that we already know that "talk shit get hit" is a thing.
As my mother quite often tells me, making assumptions "makes an ass outta you and an ass outta me" so I decided to not make any*. Furthermore, a lot of things I see around the net under topics like this don't seem to get that idea, either, and suffer accordingly. I can take no chances here
*ok, maybe she didn't say that but it had to do with the fact you can't spell the word without "ass" and "u"
author=mawk
I missed a lot of this but I think that we should start imposing a tax on everyone who sees, like, even a vaguely critical conversation and swaggers right in going 'pff who let tumblr in here'
As someone who sees a lot of what, for lack of a better word, crawls out of there, I can't really blame some of them whoever they may be. Though, for me, it's a toss up between that and what I find around Twitter
Anyways, where in the hell does this conversation stand so I can go back to reading and mostly refraining from posting as my, ah, views wouldn't be too welcome =3=
ubon
66
the conversation stands, as always, at a place where people making vague 'well I'd say things but then sjws would descend like crows and tear my flesh from my bones because I'm smart and edgy'-type statements are of no use at all. sorry! say something, or don't, but don't hang around the margins pretending that we just can't handle your acerbic styles.
Sated, i'm trying to answer you, but it's very hard. The gist of it is that the means, content and context of the outrage speak more to me than the outrage itself, and i have see raised many sexist and transphobic tropes in the attempt to communicate their distaste, which i don't think is intentional, but has tangible consequences in the related groups well being within the community. I can see how this is vague as fuck, but to explain how i see this demands articulation of very specific concepts, and i don't want to again just namedrop them and be over with it, the argument you raise demand more attention than that. That's on me, and i'll need some time.
Which does remember me that i want to revisit some older comments which i didn't give enough attention, such as Max's, but i'll wait 'till i have the primer ready so that, at least, i don't feel tempted to send people away on a quest for understanding.
TheGuy, i really want to hear you view, because whatever your view is, i'm sure it'll fit in tumblr. Tumblr has one the the broadest reaches of any social site i can find around here, specially because it's reasonably easier to isolate yourself in specific communities while maintaining a big audience, and this fosters an environment where people will feel more comfortable to produce content, be this content furry porn, antisemitic drivel, or personal narratives which are then contextualized by different academic approaches. I can't find in tumblr any issue that can't be found in other social spaces under capitalism, so we're pretty much safe here.
And i really want to know what are the discordant perspectives, so, at least this time around, i can address them in a more attentive manner.
Which does remember me that i want to revisit some older comments which i didn't give enough attention, such as Max's, but i'll wait 'till i have the primer ready so that, at least, i don't feel tempted to send people away on a quest for understanding.
TheGuy, i really want to hear you view, because whatever your view is, i'm sure it'll fit in tumblr. Tumblr has one the the broadest reaches of any social site i can find around here, specially because it's reasonably easier to isolate yourself in specific communities while maintaining a big audience, and this fosters an environment where people will feel more comfortable to produce content, be this content furry porn, antisemitic drivel, or personal narratives which are then contextualized by different academic approaches. I can't find in tumblr any issue that can't be found in other social spaces under capitalism, so we're pretty much safe here.
And i really want to know what are the discordant perspectives, so, at least this time around, i can address them in a more attentive manner.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=WetMattos
That aside, Sooz, i might ask you for a review on the primer i have been writing. It's far from complete, but if could take a look, just to point out if the tone i choose is adequate, i'd be very glad ^,^
Sure thing! :D
author=Soozauthor=WetMattosSure thing! :D
That aside, Sooz, i might ask you for a review on the primer i have been writing. It's far from complete, but if could take a look, just to point out if the tone i choose is adequate, i'd be very glad ^,^
Can i send you what i already have done now by pm?
Okay hold up so you dingbats spent 8 page arguing about trangender cheekbone character design politics when you could have instead been making awesome games for me and others to play
so way uncool of you
so way uncool of you
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I mean, you don't know that I'm not just taking breaks to argue on the internet...
author=BizarreMonkey
Blah blah
Thank you for your input. Please post elsewhere if you have nothing constructive to add.
Thanks, mngmt
author=mawk
the conversation stands, as always, at a place where people making vague 'well I'd say things but then sjws would descend like crows and tear my flesh from my bones because I'm smart and edgy'-type statements are of no use at all. sorry! say something, or don't, but don't hang around the margins pretending that we just can't handle your acerbic styles.
If you'd rather I start a shitflinging contest over my thoughts that I know will instigate such a thing, then I can. I refrain 'cause I liek u guiz and would rather not shit the forum up at every conceivable moment when a topic like this pops up. It's less us being adults who can handle differing opinions and more I sometimes can't word things how I'd like and they come off waaaay to antagonistic
>I know (or think) this isn't directed at myself only, but just thought I'd say this.
That and having a 9 page discussion gap makes it a tad difficult to know where everyone is and what's already been said 'cause I'm still at "someone got offended at a video game chick being called a tranny over an arbitrary design change to someone else's waifu"
I don't need a huge synopsis, a quick TL;DR should suffice
If you're going to tl;dr the topic then maybe this isn't a discussion for you. Also, please use appropriate language when talking about transgender people in a topic about transgender people where you're talking to transgender people.
SnowOwl
5188
This topic is pretty much dead already. Nobody is going to dare to make any kind of controversial statement in either direction when any discussion that could potentially upset anyone is disallowed. The only discussion that is going to take place here is one where everyone only slightly deviates in opinion but essentially everyone agrees. Have fun!
author=SnowOwl
This topic is pretty much dead already. Nobody is going to dare to make any kind of controversial statement in either direction when any discussion that could potentially upset anyone is disallowed. The only discussion that is going to take place here is one where everyone only slightly deviates in opinion but essentially everyone agrees. Have fun!
Curiosly enough, i haven't had much anxiety in answering to your comments, even though i started the thread in a place of great anxiety. While i consider Sooz suggestion a very good one - of restarting the thread in a more attentious manner - i disagree that this is a conversation without anything to salvage.
With that said, i'd be very cautious on the idea that we can't talk because we can't 'upset' people, since it ignores the social context of those involved. But i agree that, seeing as the rules of engagement aren't known to everyone - or, worse, are different for everyone - making statements of any kind is harder now.
@Solitayre, the thing is, it is. For some people, it is, and i think we could make an effort to, at the very least, ease the conversation for these people before dismissing them outright, as i did the first time around.
