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OF GAMES, REPRESENTATION, AND WOMEN'S CHEEKBONES
Posts
Max McGee
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CloseOld Stuff:
I feel like "it is not productive to individually engage with all of the shitty and unfair things said about and/or to me" is a mantra I need to repeat to myself regularly.
I found ZeigfreidMacBacon (sp?)'s assertion that he was chained to this website kind of intriguing, though. What does Kentona have on you, bro? Why can't you leave?
Oh, and no, I could not have made a game demo with the time I've spent in threads like these and the cops thread and the Gamergate thread. Even I don't make games that fast. But it's getting up there. I'm maybe halfway there.
It's just right now I find this kind of "political discourse" more diverting than making videogames--as everyone knows, making non-video games is my day job, so I spend 90% of my time doing that. It kind of makes sense that since I get paid to make games, I don't want to make more games for free in my spare time.
Anyway there's no real...continuity...between the experience of my having heated arguments about my games and my participating in these "political" threads.
One of these happened, depending on your perspective, because I was bad at taking criticism and/or being unfairly targeted for harassment.
The other happened because, depending on your perspective, I had the 'wrong' opinions for the political climate, or I was trying to stir shit up.
I will again boldly assert that I am not in fact trying to stir shit up.
But in any case, my (I hope) inarguable point is that they are unrelated phenomena involving the same individual, not one phenomenon.
Obviously you are not including me in that exception, right pal?
I can't help but notice you get at least somewhat less personal attacks than me when saying essentially the same things. Some of this is probably my avatar, some of it might be phrasing, but some of it is also something ineffable/that I can't change. Call it my..."reputation"?
Anyway I am agreeing with you but I am jealous of how little abuse you get for saying this stuff lol. Still though, you are awesome for saying the truth in this environment.
Newer Stuff:
Mog, capitalism IS pretty wack, homie. The problem is that there isn't really a good alternative to it: Sated's cartoon is not actually too far off.
Anyway, seeing that this thread is now about economics, I'm going to make like LightningLord2 and JETPACK THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.
It's been real, tumblrinas. Peace.
I feel like "it is not productive to individually engage with all of the shitty and unfair things said about and/or to me" is a mantra I need to repeat to myself regularly.
I found ZeigfreidMacBacon (sp?)'s assertion that he was chained to this website kind of intriguing, though. What does Kentona have on you, bro? Why can't you leave?
Oh, and no, I could not have made a game demo with the time I've spent in threads like these and the cops thread and the Gamergate thread. Even I don't make games that fast. But it's getting up there. I'm maybe halfway there.
It's just right now I find this kind of "political discourse" more diverting than making videogames--as everyone knows, making non-video games is my day job, so I spend 90% of my time doing that. It kind of makes sense that since I get paid to make games, I don't want to make more games for free in my spare time.
Anyway there's no real...continuity...between the experience of my having heated arguments about my games and my participating in these "political" threads.
One of these happened, depending on your perspective, because I was bad at taking criticism and/or being unfairly targeted for harassment.
The other happened because, depending on your perspective, I had the 'wrong' opinions for the political climate, or I was trying to stir shit up.
I will again boldly assert that I am not in fact trying to stir shit up.
But in any case, my (I hope) inarguable point is that they are unrelated phenomena involving the same individual, not one phenomenon.
author=slash
How about "A safe environment for everyone except for the people who are actively trying to make it an unsafe environment."
Obviously you are not including me in that exception, right pal?
author=BowelMOvement
*snip*
Saying things that are sane and reasonable
*snip*
I can't help but notice you get at least somewhat less personal attacks than me when saying essentially the same things. Some of this is probably my avatar, some of it might be phrasing, but some of it is also something ineffable/that I can't change. Call it my..."reputation"?
Anyway I am agreeing with you but I am jealous of how little abuse you get for saying this stuff lol. Still though, you are awesome for saying the truth in this environment.
Newer Stuff:
Mog, capitalism IS pretty wack, homie. The problem is that there isn't really a good alternative to it: Sated's cartoon is not actually too far off.
Anyway, seeing that this thread is now about economics, I'm going to make like LightningLord2 and JETPACK THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.
It's been real, tumblrinas. Peace.
author=Max
Mog, capitalism IS pretty wack, homie. The problem is that there isn't really a good alternative to it
I am willing to agree with this statement, more or less.
Hopefully one day we live in a Star Trek post-scarcity utopia.
I think in Western society we're shielded from the negative effects of capitalism to a certain extent, which is why many don't find it that bad and/or better than the alternatives.
However, consider the havoc that advancements in technology in will create in the world of gainful employment and private business - the kinda stuff capitalism runs on. Hint: The technologically skilled will prosper. Everyone else...not so much.
I'm going to be the nut-job that recommends the Americans here to consider the Transhumanist Party's presidential candidate, Zoltan Istvan, for the upcoming elections. He's probably the only one answering the questions that really matter.
However, consider the havoc that advancements in technology in will create in the world of gainful employment and private business - the kinda stuff capitalism runs on. Hint: The technologically skilled will prosper. Everyone else...not so much.
I'm going to be the nut-job that recommends the Americans here to consider the Transhumanist Party's presidential candidate, Zoltan Istvan, for the upcoming elections. He's probably the only one answering the questions that really matter.
Old Stuff:I feel like "it is not productive to individually engage with all of the shitty and unfair things said about and/or to me" is a mantra I need to repeat to myself regularly.
Certainly a good start!
I found ZeigfreidMacBacon (sp?)'s assertion that he was chained to this website kind of intriguing, though. What does Kentona have on you, bro? Why can't you leave?
1) I really hope the continued misspellings are just a result of absent mindedness, forgetfulness, or sleep deprivation and not some shitty attempt at rustling my jimmies.
2)Who said it had anything to do with my friend Kentona? Anyone who even remotely knows me knows I have far stronger obligations to other people. Basically, it boils down to being a place I call home, for better or for worse.
Oh, and no, I could not have made a game demo with the time I've spent in threads like these and the cops thread and the Gamergate thread. Even I don't make games that fast. But it's getting up there. I'm maybe halfway there.
I'll concede that point only the basis of possible laziness; otherwise, I still stand by it.
It's just right now I find this kind of "political discourse" more diverting than making videogames--as everyone knows, making non-video games is my day job, so I spend 90% of my time doing that. It kind of makes sense that since I get paid to make games, I don't want to make more games for free in my spare time.
Yes, I'm well aware of your role in writing stuff for shadowrun, and that you're credited as a writer in Shadowrun 5th Edition. I'm sure there's more than that to your credit, but this isn't the place for that.
Anyway there's no real...continuity...between the experience of my having heated arguments about my games and my participating in these "political" threads.
I wasn't trying to link the 2 so much, just a point about how much time you've spent putting yourself in pointless situations.
One of these happened, depending on your perspective, because I was bad at taking criticism and/or being unfairly targeted for harassment.
The other happened because, depending on your perspective, I had the 'wrong' opinions for the political climate, or I was trying to stir shit up.
I will again boldly assert that I am not in fact trying to stir shit up.
But in any case, my (I hope) inarguable point is that they are unrelated phenomena involving the same individual, not one phenomenon.
Time will tell. Time will certainly tell.
author=slash
How about "A safe environment for everyone except for the people who are actively trying to make it an unsafe environment."
Obviously you are not including me in that exception, right pal?
That'll never happen since it could always be argued just WHO is making things "unsafe", and since it's so subjective; there wouldn't be any wrong answers. Hell, anyone who'd accuse me of being guilty of that wouldn't be totally wrong, though they would be looked down upon and mocked pretty hard though.
I can't help but notice you get at least somewhat less personal attacks than me when saying essentially the same things. Some of this is probably my avatar, some of it might be phrasing, but some of it is also something ineffable/that I can't change. Call it my..."reputation"?
Anyway I am agreeing with you but I am jealous of how little abuse you get for saying this stuff lol. Still though, you are awesome for saying the truth in this environment.
You're probably right to a point on this one. The reputation thing anyways.
Anyway, seeing that this thread is now about economics, I'm going to make like LightningLord2 and JETPACK THE FUCK OUT OF HERE.
It's been real, tumblrinas. Peace.
You'll be back Max. I know the allure of these threads is too strong for you to resist. Also, if you're gonna be dropping some insults yo, could you at least TRY to flex your BA in creative writing some and make them at least semi amusing? Thanks. Some of us don't have tumblr accounts at the moment thanks.
author=Feldschlacht IVauthor=MaxI am willing to agree with this statement, more or less.
Mog, capitalism IS pretty wack, homie. The problem is that there isn't really a good alternative to it
Hopefully one day we live in a Star Trek post-scarcity utopia.
I have to agree heavily with this sentiment.
Just felt like I'd adress you Max. Yeah, your reputation unfortunately reaches easily.
You've handled yourself well these past posts as far as your tone is concerned, so kudos to that! And I apologize again for dismissing you early on, that's not cool. (although I also realize it is never meant to be offensive or as strong as it may come across off)
You've handled yourself well these past posts as far as your tone is concerned, so kudos to that! And I apologize again for dismissing you early on, that's not cool. (although I also realize it is never meant to be offensive or as strong as it may come across off)
author=Max McGeeI have a pretty bad reputation too, I guess sane and rational people do??
Old Stuff:author=BowelMOvementI can't help but notice you get at least somewhat less personal attacks than me when saying essentially the same things. Some of this is probably my avatar, some of it might be phrasing, but some of it is also something ineffable/that I can't change. Call it my..."reputation"?
*snip*
Saying things that are sane and reasonable
*snip*
I think people are just less game to personally attack me because it rarely works and so they in most favorable scenarios actually put some thought into responses instead, I'm also into debates and do my best not to personally attack people, though sometimes personal vitriol can't be helped. It's like I'm a cunt or something?
Sans Mawk, but he's already deadset on being an attention-seeking idiot so no complaints from me I'll just ignore him like p/much always.
Now watch as that one sentence becomes Drama central, I thought I wasn't cut out to be an impetus of chaos but by golly you guys prove me wrong!
Doesn't effect me I'm not interested in properly discussing this topic anymore! Not that much of it was properly discussed anyway, but eat shit Tumblrones regardless!
Unlike past me and Max, now I am solely participating in this thread to stir shit up, but worry not, I'll be seldom involving myself at all from now on.
Don't worry Max my reputation will be as bad as yours one day, thankfully in the grand scheme of things RMN is a simple stepping stone and doesn't really matter.
Right now I only participate in the forums because I enjoy it.
BM, half the posts from you in this thread are you swooping into say everyone is an idiot, the conversation is stupid, why are we still talking about this, etc. The reason people keep saying you're being disruptive is because your posts look exactly like what someone trying to disrupt the thread would say. I haven't come down on you too hard because you occasionally seem to acknowledge that your behavior is causing problems and step away.
Max has been told to buzz off by almost everyone because he loudly announced that his intention was to offend people, and because he has derailed three or four of these conversations in the past.
Max has been told to buzz off by almost everyone because he loudly announced that his intention was to offend people, and because he has derailed three or four of these conversations in the past.
My original intent was indeed, to honestly just laugh at this threads existence, and then I decided, hey, maybe I could actively debate in this.
Corfaisus and mawk then proceeded to be virtually the most difficult people to debate with by using shallow counter-intuitive rebates and missing any solid points I was making and pointing out smaller things I said to get off the issue I was talking about, which seemed like a weak-willed defense as if they had nothing to say to that, so case in point, this thread is stupid. It's original message lost in the vat of unscrupulous idioms people have introduced, and it's become more or less a string of subtly-executed personal attacks with no redeeming epicenter that could lead to anything.
I've considered petitioning to have it locked several times, or at least moved to the Welp Welp section, because it has become useless, it's driving away most regular discussion, which is what a general discussion board is for, and is more or less a shitpit of clashing interest purged of any meaning or purpose by vitriolic idiocy and shallow dumbfoundedness.
(Also don't put it in the Welp welp section we already have enough degreaser and lighter fluid threads to keep a bondrama burning into 2054.)
How's that for some cheekbones.
It's not like this thread is at all redeemable now, the OP from what I can tell, has entirely left, and if not his recent posts have just been 'wow guys now you're talking about this?'. Its main point has been talked about, and then everyone just agreed to disagree because we weren't getting anywhere, and it's already been derailed and off-topiced so much it may as well be called 'Shitpit of Political Sandstone' by now.
Max is one of the obvious derailers but myself and others have also done it to death, purely because you can only argue about Ahri's cheekbones for so long before you get bored and just go browse sankaku complex or something and remember how cute she is in weaboo form.
Same sorta thing happens with loads of threads around here, Pastor's beef is also slowly veering into just a 'silly politics thread'.
But yeah, my typical ideology is if no one is being rational or logical then I'm just out, I've attempted explaining mindnumbingly simple things to bricks before, they take it in, these fucking people are another bucket of fish, I've seen only four people do anything slightly in the interest of sensible debate, aside from myself.
I mean this thread should have been a foreseen disaster to begin with... but no one ever listens to me!
Nooo, had to go and duke it out another 50 pages and gain NOTHING at all just to see how right I was.
The Antichrist wants his fucking job back.
Corfaisus and mawk then proceeded to be virtually the most difficult people to debate with by using shallow counter-intuitive rebates and missing any solid points I was making and pointing out smaller things I said to get off the issue I was talking about, which seemed like a weak-willed defense as if they had nothing to say to that, so case in point, this thread is stupid. It's original message lost in the vat of unscrupulous idioms people have introduced, and it's become more or less a string of subtly-executed personal attacks with no redeeming epicenter that could lead to anything.
I've considered petitioning to have it locked several times, or at least moved to the Welp Welp section, because it has become useless, it's driving away most regular discussion, which is what a general discussion board is for, and is more or less a shitpit of clashing interest purged of any meaning or purpose by vitriolic idiocy and shallow dumbfoundedness.
(Also don't put it in the Welp welp section we already have enough degreaser and lighter fluid threads to keep a bondrama burning into 2054.)
How's that for some cheekbones.
It's not like this thread is at all redeemable now, the OP from what I can tell, has entirely left, and if not his recent posts have just been 'wow guys now you're talking about this?'. Its main point has been talked about, and then everyone just agreed to disagree because we weren't getting anywhere, and it's already been derailed and off-topiced so much it may as well be called 'Shitpit of Political Sandstone' by now.
Max is one of the obvious derailers but myself and others have also done it to death, purely because you can only argue about Ahri's cheekbones for so long before you get bored and just go browse sankaku complex or something and remember how cute she is in weaboo form.
Same sorta thing happens with loads of threads around here, Pastor's beef is also slowly veering into just a 'silly politics thread'.
But yeah, my typical ideology is if no one is being rational or logical then I'm just out, I've attempted explaining mindnumbingly simple things to bricks before, they take it in, these fucking people are another bucket of fish, I've seen only four people do anything slightly in the interest of sensible debate, aside from myself.
I mean this thread should have been a foreseen disaster to begin with... but no one ever listens to me!
Nooo, had to go and duke it out another 50 pages and gain NOTHING at all just to see how right I was.
The Antichrist wants his fucking job back.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
author=BowelMovement
It's not like this thread is at all redeemable now, the OP from what I can tell, has entirely left, and if not his recent posts have just been 'wow guys now you're talking about this?'.
Do refer to WetMattos by her preferred pronoun, please. Thank you.
author=CorfaisusI hadn't read the OP much because I couldn't stop laughing when I realized what the topic was about, but apologies WetMattos.author=BowelMovementDo refer to WetMatos by her preferred pronoun, please. Thank you.
It's not like this thread is at all redeemable now, the OP from what I can tell, has entirely left, and if not his recent posts have just been 'wow guys now you're talking about this?'.
Do please spell her name out correctly, could you do that?
From here on you're on your own kids.
Thoughts:
I know I'm getting old because this "trigger warning" stuff is silly to me. Is the younger generation really so sensitive and coddled that they can't just deal with uncomfortable subjects as they come up?
Also, it's LoL. It is played primarily by boys in their teens and 20s. Boys like pretty girls. Calling a girl pretty is not abuse or harassment. Female and male bodies are designed specifically to ... ahem... trigger certain reactions. Acknowledging differences in the two sexes is not abuse or harassment. If you are uncomfortable with portrayals of women with attractive body shapes in games, that's your own issue that should be dealt with, and those who enjoy attractive body shapes in women should not be vilified.
I disagree that Fiona looked mannish or like a tranny or old lady. I thought she looked quite striking in her own unique way. Didn't need a re-design. Though, I don't really care because the re-design is also good. Also, NEVER heard people complain about her design before. Must be a very loud minority.
That said, if Riot wants to cater to THEIR audience, because they want to continue to make tons of money, they should. Keeps the lights on, keeps people employed. That's a lot more important than some very, very sensitive minority's feelings.
Sorry. I know I have a completely bigoted and insensitive point of view when it comes with this stuff.
Ummm.... late trigger warning. :D :D :D
I know I'm getting old because this "trigger warning" stuff is silly to me. Is the younger generation really so sensitive and coddled that they can't just deal with uncomfortable subjects as they come up?
Also, it's LoL. It is played primarily by boys in their teens and 20s. Boys like pretty girls. Calling a girl pretty is not abuse or harassment. Female and male bodies are designed specifically to ... ahem... trigger certain reactions. Acknowledging differences in the two sexes is not abuse or harassment. If you are uncomfortable with portrayals of women with attractive body shapes in games, that's your own issue that should be dealt with, and those who enjoy attractive body shapes in women should not be vilified.
I disagree that Fiona looked mannish or like a tranny or old lady. I thought she looked quite striking in her own unique way. Didn't need a re-design. Though, I don't really care because the re-design is also good. Also, NEVER heard people complain about her design before. Must be a very loud minority.
That said, if Riot wants to cater to THEIR audience, because they want to continue to make tons of money, they should. Keeps the lights on, keeps people employed. That's a lot more important than some very, very sensitive minority's feelings.
Sorry. I know I have a completely bigoted and insensitive point of view when it comes with this stuff.
Ummm.... late trigger warning. :D :D :D
author=harmonic
I know I'm getting old because this "trigger warning" stuff is silly to me. Is the younger generation really so sensitive and coddled that they can't just deal with uncomfortable subjects as they come up?
---
I disagree that Fiona looked mannish or like a tranny or old lady. I thought she looked quite striking in her own unique way. Didn't need a re-design. Though, I don't really care because the re-design is also good. Also, NEVER heard people complain about her design before. Must be a very loud minority.
---
That said, if Riot wants to cater to THEIR audience, because they want to continue to make tons of money, they should. Keeps the lights on, keeps people employed. That's a lot more important than some very, very sensitive minority's feelings.
We already put trigger warnings on movies and video games, yo. I personally think it'd be a pain to put 'em on every article and snippet of info, but I can see an argument for 'em for certain things.
"Tranny" is a slur, don't use it if you want people to take you seriously or if you don't want to come off like an idiot and an asshole.
If Riot does cater to their audience, it makes sense for people to criticize their mistakes - although it sounds like this is an example of a shitty fanbase, not a mistake on Riot's part.
Calling a girl pretty isn't abuse, sure, but depending on the situation, it can absolutely be harassment (see: telling strangers on the street they're pretty vs. someone you're close to).
And of course, sex sells! Taking advantage of both our natural urges and our sexual culture makes sense from a money standpoint. It makes sense for Riot to design sexy or other kinds of attractive characters. That doesn't mean you shouldn't say anything about it. Complaining about video games' glut of sexualized characters is valid (as is complaining about their bad audiences)! It's not just "your own issue", especially if it's a common criticism. These things both reinforce and shape culture. It makes sense that we should have a say in what we want our culture to be like. If you want change, you gotta stand up and ask for it.
You know what, I really don't care about avoiding being an "idiot or asshole" anymore. Another part of getting old. :p Label however you wish.
I'd rather be free to express myself than be under the thumb of the sensitivity gestapo.
I'd rather be free to express myself than be under the thumb of the sensitivity gestapo.
author=harmonic
I'd rather be free to express myself than be under the thumb of the sensitivity gestapo.
You have the right to say whatever you want, and no one's gonna take it away from you - but it reveals a lot about you when you insist on being insulting just because you can, and none of it's good.
You can say that people should just put up with insulting bullshit and stop complaining, but I wouldn't count on it. If you want people to turn the other cheek for you just because you're apathetic, well...
SnowOwl
5188
author=harmonic
Thoughts:
I know I'm getting old because this "trigger warning" stuff is silly to me. Is the younger generation really so sensitive and coddled that they can't just deal with uncomfortable subjects as they come up?
Also, it's LoL. It is played primarily by boys in their teens and 20s. Boys like pretty girls. Calling a girl pretty is not abuse or harassment. Female and male bodies are designed specifically to ... ahem... trigger certain reactions. Acknowledging differences in the two sexes is not abuse or harassment. If you are uncomfortable with portrayals of women with attractive body shapes in games, that's your own issue that should be dealt with, and those who enjoy attractive body shapes in women should not be vilified.
I disagree that Fiona looked mannish or like a tranny or old lady. I thought she looked quite striking in her own unique way. Didn't need a re-design. Though, I don't really care because the re-design is also good. Also, NEVER heard people complain about her design before. Must be a very loud minority.
That said, if Riot wants to cater to THEIR audience, because they want to continue to make tons of money, they should. Keeps the lights on, keeps people employed. That's a lot more important than some very, very sensitive minority's feelings.
Sorry. I know I have a completely bigoted and insensitive point of view when it comes with this stuff.
Ummm.... late trigger warning. :D :D :D
Agree with every word. Well said.
author=slash
You have the right to say whatever you want, and no one's gonna take it away from you - but it reveals a lot about you when you insist on being insulting just because you can, and none of it's good.
You can say that people should just put up with insulting bullshit and stop complaining, but I wouldn't count on it. If you want people to turn the other cheek for you just because you're apathetic, well...
I didn't and wouldn't insult someone. You decided to pass judgment on my choice of words, none of which were directed at anyone. Also, no, I never said anything about "expecting people to turn the other cheek". What I said is that I really don't give a flying f if they do or not.
I even used the word as though I was channeling the critics of her previous design. Context matters.
This is exactly what I mean by sensitivity gestapo. You have determined what words I can and cannot say and threaten me with social ostracization. And your acceptable words will probably change with each passing week as more and more words change from innocent generic descriptor into suddenly a horrible bigoted insult, as determined by the "victim du jour".
