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THE ULTIMATE LEGEND OF ZELDA THREAD.
Posts
LightningLord2
230
LightningLord2
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CloseTo be fair, ALBW only gave those hint pillars at the entrances of dungeons - none of it was inside the dungeon (though you're right you only ever need one item). While it barely appeared, there was a few points where you had to figure out multiple ways of using the same tool. The Tornado Rod, for instance, lets you jump into fans, get on moving platforms, stun groups of enemies and put out fire. Too bad Zelda games don't make you look through your inventory and think about what tools you have until the final dungeon (which is the only part of OoT that was really fun to me). I want to point out that both ALttP and ALBW have numerous side areas that can be accessed/navigated only with certain tools.
Any recommendations for games that are more like these two?
Any recommendations for games that are more like these two?
I played Zelda: Spirit Tracks almost to dungeon 5 when my DS fell dead. I then realised that in some games, you still have to save your progress.
I swear, auto-save is the WORST thing to happen to gaming. When you get too comfortable playing next gen and then try to go back, it's a big ol' "Well screw this!"
And I would have gone back to play Spirit Tracks through again (may still one day), but the controls are so @##&%+ing terrible, that I can't believe it wears the glorious Nintendo brand. However, one of the reasons I kept on playing, was the damn train. That song, that horn you can toot... My god. So addictive.
I swear, auto-save is the WORST thing to happen to gaming. When you get too comfortable playing next gen and then try to go back, it's a big ol' "Well screw this!"
And I would have gone back to play Spirit Tracks through again (may still one day), but the controls are so @##&%+ing terrible, that I can't believe it wears the glorious Nintendo brand. However, one of the reasons I kept on playing, was the damn train. That song, that horn you can toot... My god. So addictive.
author=Dudesoft
I played Zelda: Spirit Tracks almost to dungeon 5 when my DS fell dead. I then realised that in some games, you still have to save your progress.
I swear, auto-save is the WORST thing to happen to gaming. When you get too comfortable playing next gen and then try to go back, it's a big ol' "Well screw this!"
I played spirit tracks up to the last dungeon, but could not for the life of me play that last song. It made me so mad, I literally pulled the game out of my ds and smashed it, I ripped it clean apart not joking. Haven't played it since
author=Dudesoft
If you can play that cart after all that... I'll give you $10.
Well I would try, but I since lost the pieces long ago.
And yeah Phantom Hourglass was annoying with that, spirit tracks fixed it by having a repeating dungeon that was fun and full of puzzles. That utilized both Zelda and Link in some creative ways.
I've played (in this order): Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures (with a friend on the Gamecube), Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess.
All enjoyable games for me.
"Four Swords Adventures" was a bit slow/boring at times, I probably wouldn't have any fun with it if it wasn't multiplayer (since it's basically "A Link to the Past").
I have no nostalgic connection with "A Link to the Past" or the Zelda series since I didn't grew up with these games.
I tried playing "A Link to the Past" and quit a few hours in, I found the dungeons had bad design, the battles were clunky/awkward, the puzzles were too simplistic and the game was generally boring/unfun for me.
The graphics, presentation and music were really good, though!
I will eventually beat it since it's a classic game and would like to see some more of the series roots, but I'll probably play the original Zelda first since it seems to have better gameplay (I played a bit), even if it's completely different from recent Zeldas.
I won't deny the importance "A Link to the Past" had, but ever since trying it I deem most of the praise the game gets to be nostalgia influenced.
All enjoyable games for me.
"Four Swords Adventures" was a bit slow/boring at times, I probably wouldn't have any fun with it if it wasn't multiplayer (since it's basically "A Link to the Past").
I have no nostalgic connection with "A Link to the Past" or the Zelda series since I didn't grew up with these games.
I tried playing "A Link to the Past" and quit a few hours in, I found the dungeons had bad design, the battles were clunky/awkward, the puzzles were too simplistic and the game was generally boring/unfun for me.
The graphics, presentation and music were really good, though!
I will eventually beat it since it's a classic game and would like to see some more of the series roots, but I'll probably play the original Zelda first since it seems to have better gameplay (I played a bit), even if it's completely different from recent Zeldas.
I won't deny the importance "A Link to the Past" had, but ever since trying it I deem most of the praise the game gets to be nostalgia influenced.
author=iddalai
I've played (in this order): Wind Waker, Four Swords Adventures (with a friend on the Gamecube), Ocarina of Time, Majora's Mask and Twilight Princess.
All enjoyable games for me.
"Four Swords Adventures" was a bit slow/boring at times, I probably wouldn't have any fun with it if it wasn't multiplayer (since it's basically "A Link to the Past").
I have no nostalgic connection with "A Link to the Past" or the Zelda series since I didn't grew up with these games.
I tried playing "A Link to the Past" and quit a few hours in, I found the dungeons had bad design, the battles were clunky/awkward, the puzzles were too simplistic and the game was generally boring/unfun for me.
The graphics, presentation and music were really good, though!
I will eventually beat it since it's a classic game and would like to see some more of the series roots, but I'll probably play the original Zelda first since it seems to have better gameplay (I played a bit), even if it's completely different from recent Zeldas.
I won't deny the importance "A Link to the Past" had, but ever since trying it I deem most of the praise the game gets to be nostalgia influenced.
I kinda of feel the same for Majora's Mask, don't get me wrong its great game and I will eventually get off my sorry butt and beat it. But to me its just a lot of busy work, having to go back in time get more time to go through dungeons but in the process you can't get to that dungeon unless you go back and redo everything. Its just a chore to play for me. I didn't start to notice this until I played it just yesterday. But I still think its a great game, maybe I just don't have the patients for it.
TheNecromancer
3160
author=iddalai
I tried playing "A Link to the Past" and quit a few hours in, I found the dungeons had bad design, the battles were clunky/awkward, the puzzles were too simplistic and the game was generally boring/unfun for me.
The graphics, presentation and music were really good, though!
I won't deny the importance "A Link to the Past" had, but ever since trying it I deem most of the praise the game gets to be nostalgia influenced.
I have heavy nostalgia attached to Lttp, but even if I look at it objectively I can't see how the dungeon design is flawed. Can you provide specific examples and explain why? It's not much different from other games' design.
How is the battle clunky/awkward?
How are those puzzles any less simplistic than just about every other 2D Zelda game?
It's a pretty solid game and standard fare. It sounds like you heard lots of hype about how great the game was and expected it to be so much more amazing than other Zelda games, but it's basically the same and you're knocking it because of that.
That's my impression of what you're saying. So please, enlighten me ^.^
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Trying to stab enemy guards as they're charging you and and having your sword bounce off their sword fifteen times is the major clunkiness of LttP combat. It's only that one enemy, but it's a very common enemy in the first third of the game.
The dungeon design is mostly really good though. Except maybe turtle rock. Screw those moving platforms and pipes and shit. It's like a teleporter maze that takes thirty seconds every time you step on a teleporter.
I can see how the puzzles would feel simplistic if it's the ninth zelda game you played. At the time it was released, the idea of solving puzzles with the hookshot, boomerang, and bombs was brand new and they didn't need them to interact with any other gimmicks to create original puzzles. The hookshot by itself was already an original puzzle. It had never been done before. Planting a bomb near a switch that raises a wall and then moving to the other side of the wall before it exploded was a clever puzzle that had never been done before. Link to the Past invented most of the recurring Zelda items, and invented puzzle dungeons. And the game used these elements extremely well and came up with amazingly great puzzles... so great that almost every single puzzle in this game was reused in almost every Zelda game since. So yeah, while the experience is still really objectively good, the puzzles will not challenge a veteran.
The dungeon design is mostly really good though. Except maybe turtle rock. Screw those moving platforms and pipes and shit. It's like a teleporter maze that takes thirty seconds every time you step on a teleporter.
I can see how the puzzles would feel simplistic if it's the ninth zelda game you played. At the time it was released, the idea of solving puzzles with the hookshot, boomerang, and bombs was brand new and they didn't need them to interact with any other gimmicks to create original puzzles. The hookshot by itself was already an original puzzle. It had never been done before. Planting a bomb near a switch that raises a wall and then moving to the other side of the wall before it exploded was a clever puzzle that had never been done before. Link to the Past invented most of the recurring Zelda items, and invented puzzle dungeons. And the game used these elements extremely well and came up with amazingly great puzzles... so great that almost every single puzzle in this game was reused in almost every Zelda game since. So yeah, while the experience is still really objectively good, the puzzles will not challenge a veteran.
LightningLord2
230
I also like the dungeon design in A Link to the Past as it is always clear which way to go next - in OoT, it's very frequent to run into dead ends, traverse extremely complicated floors (dat forest temple) and you don't get a map + compass until you beat most of the dungeon already.
The bosses in LttP are also legitimately challenging and even knowing how to beat a boss doesn't mean you can get it right as their attack patterns aren't a joke.
OoT's bosses:
Gohma: Does this thing even attack you if it's on the ground?
King Dodongo: The roll looks tricky at first until you realize ducking makes you immune to it.
Barinade: Spam Boomerang all the time - if it doesn't hurt Barinade, use sword. A boss that can actually fight back.
Phantom Ganon: You can't really tell which way he's coming out until he does, so it's kinda luck based, except he's kinda slow. Also, Tennis.
Volvagia: Run around aimlessly when he's flying, hammer on the ground.
Morpha: Would actually be a challenge if it weren't for the Z focus.
Bongo Bongo: Even if you don't use the lens of truth, you can whirlwind spam to nail him.
Twinrova: As long as you hold R, you can't get hit. Ever.
Ganondorf: The Tennis wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that's his only attack unless you run up to him.
Ganon: Z -> Arrow -> Z -> Hammer -> Repeat. Later, replace Hammer with Sword. If you shoot enough light arrows, he'll never get a hit in.
The bosses in LttP are also legitimately challenging and even knowing how to beat a boss doesn't mean you can get it right as their attack patterns aren't a joke.
OoT's bosses:
Gohma: Does this thing even attack you if it's on the ground?
King Dodongo: The roll looks tricky at first until you realize ducking makes you immune to it.
Barinade: Spam Boomerang all the time - if it doesn't hurt Barinade, use sword. A boss that can actually fight back.
Phantom Ganon: You can't really tell which way he's coming out until he does, so it's kinda luck based, except he's kinda slow. Also, Tennis.
Volvagia: Run around aimlessly when he's flying, hammer on the ground.
Morpha: Would actually be a challenge if it weren't for the Z focus.
Bongo Bongo: Even if you don't use the lens of truth, you can whirlwind spam to nail him.
Twinrova: As long as you hold R, you can't get hit. Ever.
Ganondorf: The Tennis wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that's his only attack unless you run up to him.
Ganon: Z -> Arrow -> Z -> Hammer -> Repeat. Later, replace Hammer with Sword. If you shoot enough light arrows, he'll never get a hit in.
author=lonestarluigi
I kinda of feel the same for Majora's Mask, don't get me wrong its great game and I will eventually get off my sorry butt and beat it. But to me its just a lot of busy work, having to go back in time get more time to go through dungeons but in the process you can't get to that dungeon unless you go back and redo everything. Its just a chore to play for me. I didn't start to notice this until I played it just yesterday. But I still think its a great game, maybe I just don't have the patients for it.
Well, do you slow down time? I've found it plenty of time to beat dungeons. It's tough if you are using the normal speed, to be certain.
Once you've reached the dungeon, you can get back to it easily imho.
Naturally, it's not as magnificent as when I played it back in the day. But a great game on its own still.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Majora's Mask is okayish in retrospect but I despised every minute of it when I was playing it when it first came out. It just took the masterpiece that was Ocarina of Time and shat all over it. It was like the N64 equivalent of Mario is Missing, reusing the graphics and basic controls of a beloved game to get some cheap sales while offering absolutely none of what made the original game enjoyable. What it does offer isn't totally devoid of merit, but it's barely even a Zelda game. It's a cash-in spin-off, like Hyrule Warriors or Link's Crossbow Training or Freshly-Picked Tingle's Rosy Rupeeland.
Still better than the NES games.
The slow-down time thing is a secret that takes a while to discover, you'll probably go through the first third of the game without knowing about it, which is by design. Around the time you learn about it, the paths to get to each dungeon are becoming much longer. If you're playing the game the first time and not using a walkthrough, you should definitely expect to spend a solid ten hours redoing stuff you did already. Even though the later sections of the game are longer, I think it's the worst during the first parts of the game, because you're still figuring out how the time-rewinding works, and experimenting with what gets reset and what doesn't, and spending time learning the basic gameplay, and talking to everyone, and exploring every nook and cranny, and getting lost, and constantly forgetting about the time limit.
Still better than the NES games.
The slow-down time thing is a secret that takes a while to discover, you'll probably go through the first third of the game without knowing about it, which is by design. Around the time you learn about it, the paths to get to each dungeon are becoming much longer. If you're playing the game the first time and not using a walkthrough, you should definitely expect to spend a solid ten hours redoing stuff you did already. Even though the later sections of the game are longer, I think it's the worst during the first parts of the game, because you're still figuring out how the time-rewinding works, and experimenting with what gets reset and what doesn't, and spending time learning the basic gameplay, and talking to everyone, and exploring every nook and cranny, and getting lost, and constantly forgetting about the time limit.
LightningLord2
230
I can agree on Majora's Mask being unfun, but I didn't find Ocarina of Time to be good, either.
With the NES games, I used a map guide to find around the first game and played a bit of the second. Both games are okay but rather bland. Zelda 1 in particular felt immensely drawn-out.
I've talked enough about the SNES and N64 games already, so I'll talk about the other consoles:
I haven't spend any time with the Gameboy games, so I have no idea what they're like. I'm not exactly hyped to play them, either.
Four Swords Adventures and A Link to the Past Advance remake the original game with a bunch of features the game doesn't need - though I can imagine the 4 Swords game to be alright with other players. Minish Cap is basically ALttP where they strapped on an okay exploration gimmick, confusing Mode 7 elements and an unfun collection quest. I also couldn't go further halfway in the final dungeon.
Wind Waker has a nice artstyle and soundtrack - I didn't like the first dungeon, though, which turned me off the first time. After getting back and beating the bastion, I stopped after some dungeon where there was nothing left to do. While the combat is still mostly like OoT, having a few more moves makes dicking around more fun.
Twilight Princess was alright, but I felt it was trying too hard to be Ocarina of Time. Also, there's too much time spent hunting for collectables.
Skyward Sword only makes me think "Why don't I play Twilight Princess instead?". I never touched the game (heck, I never saw it in stores!)
What also didn't interest me was Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks - I immediately turned away once I saw it relies heavily on touchscreen controls. At least I haven't seen microphone controls.
A Link Between Worlds is a shining example of how remakes are to be done - it keeps the original feel of the game, adds a cool new feature and explores a new approach to the story. While the puzzles are more on the easy side (though you can get creative even if using just one tool), the battles are really tough, especially in Hero Mode.
With the NES games, I used a map guide to find around the first game and played a bit of the second. Both games are okay but rather bland. Zelda 1 in particular felt immensely drawn-out.
I've talked enough about the SNES and N64 games already, so I'll talk about the other consoles:
I haven't spend any time with the Gameboy games, so I have no idea what they're like. I'm not exactly hyped to play them, either.
Four Swords Adventures and A Link to the Past Advance remake the original game with a bunch of features the game doesn't need - though I can imagine the 4 Swords game to be alright with other players. Minish Cap is basically ALttP where they strapped on an okay exploration gimmick, confusing Mode 7 elements and an unfun collection quest. I also couldn't go further halfway in the final dungeon.
Wind Waker has a nice artstyle and soundtrack - I didn't like the first dungeon, though, which turned me off the first time. After getting back and beating the bastion, I stopped after some dungeon where there was nothing left to do. While the combat is still mostly like OoT, having a few more moves makes dicking around more fun.
Twilight Princess was alright, but I felt it was trying too hard to be Ocarina of Time. Also, there's too much time spent hunting for collectables.
Skyward Sword only makes me think "Why don't I play Twilight Princess instead?". I never touched the game (heck, I never saw it in stores!)
What also didn't interest me was Phantom Hourglass & Spirit Tracks - I immediately turned away once I saw it relies heavily on touchscreen controls. At least I haven't seen microphone controls.
A Link Between Worlds is a shining example of how remakes are to be done - it keeps the original feel of the game, adds a cool new feature and explores a new approach to the story. While the puzzles are more on the easy side (though you can get creative even if using just one tool), the battles are really tough, especially in Hero Mode.
RedMask
1139
I've beaten all the Zeldas ... ALL OF THEM! Well actually I haven't played Link Between Worlds or Hyrule Warriors.
Skyward Sword is great! It certainly is not as good as other Zelda games but that doesn't mean it's a bad game.
Majora's Mask is my favorite you really should try to beat it. The masks, the cultures, the people, the transformations, everything is so good in that game!
If anyone is curious, my least favorite Zelda is Spirit Tracks. The spirit flute is a broken game mechanic and I hate it. Also the train riding stuff is lame. Princess Zelda is awesome in that game though.
Skyward Sword is great! It certainly is not as good as other Zelda games but that doesn't mean it's a bad game.
Majora's Mask is my favorite you really should try to beat it. The masks, the cultures, the people, the transformations, everything is so good in that game!
If anyone is curious, my least favorite Zelda is Spirit Tracks. The spirit flute is a broken game mechanic and I hate it. Also the train riding stuff is lame. Princess Zelda is awesome in that game though.
turkeyDawg
195
author=RedMask
I've beaten all the Zeldas ... ALL OF THEM!
Even the Phillips CDi games? :v
RedMask
1139
author=turkeyDawgauthor=RedMaskEven the Phillips CDi games? :v
I've beaten all the Zeldas ... ALL OF THEM!
I knew someone would bring that up. What's next going say I'm not a true fan until I played the Japan only Satellaview Zelda games? lol
turkeyDawg
195
Damn straight, you scrub. Better get on that.
And no, emulators don't count! Better hope you can find it on eBay!
And no, emulators don't count! Better hope you can find it on eBay!
author=RedMask
I've beaten all the Zeldas ... ALL OF THEM! Well actually I haven't played Link Between Worlds or Hyrule Warriors.
Skyward Sword is great! It certainly is not as good as other Zelda games but that doesn't mean it's a bad game.
Majora's Mask is my favorite you really should try to beat it. The masks, the cultures, the people, the transformations, everything is so good in that game!
If anyone is curious, my least favorite Zelda is Spirit Tracks. The spirit flute is a broken game mechanic and I hate it. Also the train riding stuff is lame. Princess Zelda is awesome in that game though.
I agree about Zelda in Spirit tracks, to me this is the best incarnation of Zelda. Beside skyward sword. She's actually useful and a really cool and fleshed out character this time, and yeah the spirit flute was horrible. If you read an earlier post, I said I literally ripped the game cart in half from anger due to the last song you have to play being impossible.
author=lonestarluigiauthor=RedMaskI agree about Zelda in Spirit tracks, to me this is the best incarnation of Zelda. Beside skyward sword. She's actually useful and a really cool and fleshed out character this time, and yeah the spirit flute was horrible. If you read an earlier post, I said I literally ripped the game cart in half from anger due to the last song you have to play being impossible.
I've beaten all the Zeldas ... ALL OF THEM! Well actually I haven't played Link Between Worlds or Hyrule Warriors.
Skyward Sword is great! It certainly is not as good as other Zelda games but that doesn't mean it's a bad game.
Majora's Mask is my favorite you really should try to beat it. The masks, the cultures, the people, the transformations, everything is so good in that game!
If anyone is curious, my least favorite Zelda is Spirit Tracks. The spirit flute is a broken game mechanic and I hate it. Also the train riding stuff is lame. Princess Zelda is awesome in that game though.
You also have the Japanese tingle games on ds. As well, your not a true fan if you haven't played them! Actually ... I say anyone on this thread hasn't played it, unless they live in japan.
