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ONE MAN CODES A DS GAME ON HIS OWN IN 5 YEARS
Posts
RoseSkye
181
RoseSkye
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Closeauthor=Neophyte link=topic=1978.msg32694#msg32694 date=1221828558author=RoseSkye link=topic=1978.msg32685#msg32685 date=1221825584What.
RPG Maker isn't from scratch. You can't compare rpg maker games to something someone coded from scratch. No RTP, no database, no templates. Just hard work. This guy is on a whole new level than us.
Also.. I wouldn't respond to criticism either if I did something -by myself- from scratch. What are RPG Makers professional game designers now? Even commercial projects for RM uses teams. LoH has a scripters, spriters, voice actors, composers, and etc. I agree whole heartedly that he shouldn't take criticism -especially- from RM Makers. That being said.. the game looks boring.
There are always legitimate reasons for criticism, I hope you understand that. Even big companies like Bethesda and Valve take constructive criticism to help improve their games. It doesn't matter where RM guys are now, that has NOTHING to do with criticism. The "I coded my game from scratch, your criticism doesn't matter HA!" argument is the weakest one ever. And it doesn't look like he's taking advice from anyone.
It's all good that this guy had a vision for his game, and worked extremely hard to make it. But there's a line that you shouldn't cross when it comes to things like this. In my opinion, he went a little too far in boasting his abilities.
I really could careless about the whole debate thing that is inevitably going to spark here.
The coded the game from scratch comment was for the guy that said "The Hard Way is the longest one man game made." Games made on the RM doesn't count.. it hurts me to say it but it's kinda like cheating. We have a premade engine maker. Now, Game Maker games are -a little- more difficult.
He's one person, not a company.. not some big named professional. He's pleased with his creation. So why the HELL would someone not be happy for him? What's with the negativity?
"I hate him, he's too cocky."
"It's not the longest game made.. tch"
"I could do better."
We dont have to pat the guy on the back, we just should hope he succeeds -on his own-. It's all we can do, it's not our game. We have no right trying to backseat drive. Why didn't you back seat drive before he released the game video? Five fucking years to make the game. 5*365 - 1 = 1824. Imagine toiling away five years of your life as a bachelor on a gaming project. Only to have someone turn their nose up at you and try to give you pointers -after- the five years have passed.
It's arrogant all in itself. It's about as arrogant as people trying to force -other- people not to have abortions. It's NOT them.. nor is it their life. Jeez. I'm done. I'm happy for the guy, the game isn't my cup of tea.. it doesn't look like it's actiony.. but I do admire him for making the game from scratch for a console.
Beaker
5739
I can't say that I'm impressed. While I have not played the game, and hence, I do not know everything about it, I'm certain that I, and probably others on this board, could do the same or better.
If it was someone from these boards making it, I'd think it was pretty cool and all the luck to you, but it's not of the "wow, this is amazing" hype.
Now, if someone made a full length SNES game from scratch, then I'd be impressed.
If it was someone from these boards making it, I'd think it was pretty cool and all the luck to you, but it's not of the "wow, this is amazing" hype.
Now, if someone made a full length SNES game from scratch, then I'd be impressed.
This looks like a modern Xenosaga, without the battles/minigames/puzzles/fifty billion stats and hot cyborg guy. So it's, uh... "press A to continue." A lot.
Max: Yeah, TTHW > this.
MODIFY: Did anybody else see the sidebar about renting purse/DS combos to fashionistas?
Max: Yeah, TTHW > this.
MODIFY: Did anybody else see the sidebar about renting purse/DS combos to fashionistas?
author=RoseSkye link=topic=1978.msg32695#msg32695 date=1221829232
We dont have to pat the guy on the back, we just should hope he succeeds -on his own-. It's all we can do, it's not our game. We have no right trying to backseat drive. Why didn't you back seat drive before he released the game video? Five fucking years to make the game. 5*365 - 1 = 1824. Imagine toiling away five years of your life as a bachelor on a gaming project. Only to have someone turn their nose up at you and try to give you pointers -after- the five years have passed.
So because one guy worked on something for five years the project becomes immune to criticism? When I play a game I don't think "Well the dev team wasn't very big, so I guess I can't complain too much", I think "What an awful game". Besides giving him "9/10!" and Internet high fives aren't going to help him besides stroke his epenis. Considering he's been working on it for five years, I'd hope he would take the criticism in hand to improve his game so the last five years of his life isn't possibly some boring game that few will care about.
Craze, I don't think anyone on this website except you and maybe Brandon are even capable of reading or even seeing something with the word fashionista in it.
With that out of the way, I will now endeavor to piss off everyone on every side of the argument. ;D
Just kidding. Not trying to piss anyone off. Seriously, I do have very strong feelings both ways on this topic, and I think a lot of things a lot of people said are wrong in one way or another.
Fjuck that. Have you PLAYED Sunset over Imdahl? How about Wilfred the Hero? Grave Spirit? The only things these games took from Enterbrain is an ENGINE. Everything else was made from scratch.
Look at the above examples. Have you played those games? Are you aware of their existence? I guess you could argue they weren't from scratch because they used a prebuilt engine, but then again...SO DO 90% OF COMMERCIAL GAMES. Hence your opinion is retarded squared.
Also, creativity doesn't work in a vacuum. Anyone who is "immune to criticism" is also "immune" to improvement and hence is more likely to ship a shitty product.
Look, here is my method, applied to writing, too:
During the first draft of anything, the door is closed. You don't listen to anyone's advice, you don't give a shit what anyone says, you just produce art like a machine.
But when it's time to revise, or in this case, AGGRESSIVELY PROMOTE YOUR GAME,you damn well better be ready to take criticism, because you have already OPENED the door by aggressively promoting your game.
At the same time, I think his game looks great. I wouldn't criticize it until I played it.I think the game looks awesome, like a 2D Shenmue/Bully with all the heart and quirky character of Earthbound or The Simpsons. I would like to play it. And I have not said anything negative about it. All I said is that making a game, from scratch, in RPG Maker, counts.
But as to him having an ego because he made a complete DS game by himself....I dunno, I have conflicting feelings on that. Part of me wants to tell him that I have spent three years making a complete game, which puts me at the same level as him.
But the other part wants me to tell everyone that outside the RPGmaker community, with the exception of fundamentalist Christians, perhaps, having an ego is not considered an unforgivable, blacklist worthy sin.
What you don't get, Neophyte, is that this isn't some forum post he made in our community. This is not him talking among friends. This video is OBVIOUSLY a (well-produced) attempt at marketing. He is clearly in the marketing/advertising phase. And in that phase, being modest is not one of your priorities. Your priority is to show off and make your game look awesome sauce so people will buy it. Think about commercials and add campaigns for other COMMERCIAL GAMES, which this is. Do you recall any of them being modest? Because they're not. Marketing isn't about being modest, it's about selling yourself, pitching yourself, repping yourself. It is the opposite of modesty. Would anyone expect modesty from a trailer for Halo 3? For GTA:IV? Would we get pissed off and be like HOW COME THEY THINK THEIR GAME IS SO GREAT THOSE JERKS! It is a commercial game, he is selling it, welcome to capitalism. You can't hold everything to the standards of a GW Forum post for cripes' sakes.
I agree with this, GRS, but I think it's 90% sure he had a select group of beta testers who have given him feedback on this game throughout his development. They were probably his friends, but so what. The whole "100% on my own" thing is probably a fake, like I said, a gimmick for him to sell the thing with. I'm pretty damn sure he's taken at least some feedback into account.
Finally, back to Rose again...as some jerk around here famously said, CRITICISM DOES NOT WORK ON A "DO BETTER" BASIS. The right to criticism is not based on "merit" or being able to do better, at least not in anything resembling the real world. As a matter of fact, most professional critics and reviewers are ONLY good at being critical.
And I hate how you view us as some kind of underclass, like our work is somehow innately less real than anyone else's. Well fuck that shit. Making games in RPG Maker is HARD, at lest if you're trying to do it RIGHT.
Just kidding. Not trying to piss anyone off. Seriously, I do have very strong feelings both ways on this topic, and I think a lot of things a lot of people said are wrong in one way or another.
RPG Maker isn't from scratch. You can't compare rpg maker games to something someone coded from scratch. No RTP, no database, no templates. Just hard work. This guy is on a whole new level than us.
Fjuck that. Have you PLAYED Sunset over Imdahl? How about Wilfred the Hero? Grave Spirit? The only things these games took from Enterbrain is an ENGINE. Everything else was made from scratch.
Oh, and of those examples, I think only SoI was a solo project, btw.
The coded the game from scratch comment was for the guy that said "The Hard Way is the longest one man game made." Games made on the RM doesn't count.. it hurts me to say it but it's kinda like cheating. We have a premade engine maker. Now, Game Maker games are -a little- more difficult.
Look at the above examples. Have you played those games? Are you aware of their existence? I guess you could argue they weren't from scratch because they used a prebuilt engine, but then again...SO DO 90% OF COMMERCIAL GAMES. Hence your opinion is retarded squared.
Also, creativity doesn't work in a vacuum. Anyone who is "immune to criticism" is also "immune" to improvement and hence is more likely to ship a shitty product.
Look, here is my method, applied to writing, too:
During the first draft of anything, the door is closed. You don't listen to anyone's advice, you don't give a shit what anyone says, you just produce art like a machine.
But when it's time to revise, or in this case, AGGRESSIVELY PROMOTE YOUR GAME,you damn well better be ready to take criticism, because you have already OPENED the door by aggressively promoting your game.
At the same time, I think his game looks great. I wouldn't criticize it until I played it.I think the game looks awesome, like a 2D Shenmue/Bully with all the heart and quirky character of Earthbound or The Simpsons. I would like to play it. And I have not said anything negative about it. All I said is that making a game, from scratch, in RPG Maker, counts.
But as to him having an ego because he made a complete DS game by himself....I dunno, I have conflicting feelings on that. Part of me wants to tell him that I have spent three years making a complete game, which puts me at the same level as him.
But the other part wants me to tell everyone that outside the RPGmaker community, with the exception of fundamentalist Christians, perhaps, having an ego is not considered an unforgivable, blacklist worthy sin.
It's all good that this guy had a vision for his game, and worked extremely hard to make it. But there's a line that you shouldn't cross when it comes to things like this. In my opinion, he went a little too far in boasting his abilities.
What you don't get, Neophyte, is that this isn't some forum post he made in our community. This is not him talking among friends. This video is OBVIOUSLY a (well-produced) attempt at marketing. He is clearly in the marketing/advertising phase. And in that phase, being modest is not one of your priorities. Your priority is to show off and make your game look awesome sauce so people will buy it. Think about commercials and add campaigns for other COMMERCIAL GAMES, which this is. Do you recall any of them being modest? Because they're not. Marketing isn't about being modest, it's about selling yourself, pitching yourself, repping yourself. It is the opposite of modesty. Would anyone expect modesty from a trailer for Halo 3? For GTA:IV? Would we get pissed off and be like HOW COME THEY THINK THEIR GAME IS SO GREAT THOSE JERKS! It is a commercial game, he is selling it, welcome to capitalism. You can't hold everything to the standards of a GW Forum post for cripes' sakes.
So because one guy worked on something for five years the project becomes immune to criticism? When I play a game I don't think "Well the dev team wasn't very big, so I guess I can't complain too much", I think "What an awful game". Besides giving him "9/10!" and Internet high fives aren't going to help him besides stroke his epenis. Considering he's been working on it for five years, I'd hope he would take the criticism in hand to improve his game so the last five years of his life isn't possibly some boring game that few will care about.
I agree with this, GRS, but I think it's 90% sure he had a select group of beta testers who have given him feedback on this game throughout his development. They were probably his friends, but so what. The whole "100% on my own" thing is probably a fake, like I said, a gimmick for him to sell the thing with. I'm pretty damn sure he's taken at least some feedback into account.
Also.. I wouldn't respond to criticism either if I did something -by myself- from scratch. What are RPG Makers professional game designers now? Even commercial projects for RM uses teams. LoH has a scripters, spriters, voice actors, composers, and etc. I agree whole heartedly that he shouldn't take criticism -especially- from RM Makers.
Finally, back to Rose again...as some jerk around here famously said, CRITICISM DOES NOT WORK ON A "DO BETTER" BASIS. The right to criticism is not based on "merit" or being able to do better, at least not in anything resembling the real world. As a matter of fact, most professional critics and reviewers are ONLY good at being critical.
And I hate how you view us as some kind of underclass, like our work is somehow innately less real than anyone else's. Well fuck that shit. Making games in RPG Maker is HARD, at lest if you're trying to do it RIGHT.
RoseSkye
181
@ the engine comment. Yeah from scratch -resources- are well and dandy but it still isn't coding the game it's using events which is still like cheating. No matter how you look at it.. it's not the same.
I'm done.. ranting around isn't helping my hangover and I really feel like an idiot everytime I enter one of these heated "GRR I'm angry at your comments" debates. My opinion isn't going to magically change, neither is yours. I've said what I had to say. "We shouldn't be so quick to hate the guy because he's proud of his game." and "You should understand that he made the game.. himself.. some random person approaching him saying 'needs more guns and chuck norris' isn't going to work." I know, because I'm the same way. I tend to like learning from experience. I do something and I observe how it is taken.. if its good I'll do it the same way, if its bad I'll avoid doing it in the future. Whenever someone tells me "read a tutorial on blah blah.." I don't listen to comments like that because then I wont be able to learn how to develop a unique style. I'll just try to do it better next time.
-Anyone- can throw a punch, but only bad asses can take one.
The some of same people that criticizes him idolizes will probably try to make the game more like Naruto, Final Fantasy, or somekinda fan fiction. I DARE you to say that's not true. The ideas may be okay, but, not all of them are original. Chances are if you look in every page of the RM Game section here you will see:
*A fan game based on an anime or rpg.
*Some kinda jrpg spin off that has to do with legends and kings.
*Something that has to do with japan, have japanese names or something like that..
*A joke game
*A five minute game
However there are golden eggs within the internet. Yet, why would someone take such a foolish chance? I would accept criticism from someone that approached me on the street, no problem. "Hey man, I liked your game.. but it should be a little bit more dynamic.". "Sure, I can think that over." Yet, don't you think the 'stroking the epenis' is a double edged blade? You want him to stroke your epenis by listening to you? Someone who just randomly emailed/messaged him.
I'm not saying I'm over your responses. I just know that debating is useless from experience. Our opinions wont change, I can just throw it out there. We both see ourselves as right. There is no right or wrong truthfully, just PoV. If the government declared that 2+2=5.. and the world accepted it, guess what? Even the guys that remember 2+2 as being 4 would be seen as incorrect when someone says its five.
I said before that I didn't feel like debating, and damn it all.. noone listens.
I'm done.. ranting around isn't helping my hangover and I really feel like an idiot everytime I enter one of these heated "GRR I'm angry at your comments" debates. My opinion isn't going to magically change, neither is yours. I've said what I had to say. "We shouldn't be so quick to hate the guy because he's proud of his game." and "You should understand that he made the game.. himself.. some random person approaching him saying 'needs more guns and chuck norris' isn't going to work." I know, because I'm the same way. I tend to like learning from experience. I do something and I observe how it is taken.. if its good I'll do it the same way, if its bad I'll avoid doing it in the future. Whenever someone tells me "read a tutorial on blah blah.." I don't listen to comments like that because then I wont be able to learn how to develop a unique style. I'll just try to do it better next time.
-Anyone- can throw a punch, but only bad asses can take one.
The some of same people that criticizes him idolizes will probably try to make the game more like Naruto, Final Fantasy, or somekinda fan fiction. I DARE you to say that's not true. The ideas may be okay, but, not all of them are original. Chances are if you look in every page of the RM Game section here you will see:
*A fan game based on an anime or rpg.
*Some kinda jrpg spin off that has to do with legends and kings.
*Something that has to do with japan, have japanese names or something like that..
*A joke game
*A five minute game
However there are golden eggs within the internet. Yet, why would someone take such a foolish chance? I would accept criticism from someone that approached me on the street, no problem. "Hey man, I liked your game.. but it should be a little bit more dynamic.". "Sure, I can think that over." Yet, don't you think the 'stroking the epenis' is a double edged blade? You want him to stroke your epenis by listening to you? Someone who just randomly emailed/messaged him.
I'm not saying I'm over your responses. I just know that debating is useless from experience. Our opinions wont change, I can just throw it out there. We both see ourselves as right. There is no right or wrong truthfully, just PoV. If the government declared that 2+2=5.. and the world accepted it, guess what? Even the guys that remember 2+2 as being 4 would be seen as incorrect when someone says its five.
I said before that I didn't feel like debating, and damn it all.. noone listens.
I am not trying to be dismissive when I say that half of your post was incomprehensible to me. Saying "my opinion will never change and neither will yours" is silly because I am capable of changing my opinion, thank you very much. It has changed in the past, it will change again, and I'm sure you are capable of changing your opinion too.
FACT. Most commerical games are made using prebuilt, licensed engines that were not made for that particular game. For instance, at least twenty games are made using the Half-Life 2 Engine, Source, alone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_engine
FACT. Many commercial games are developed with SDKs (software development kits) and in integrated development environments (IDEs) which can be just as easy to work with as RPG Maker. I'm thinking about things like The Elder Scrolls Toolkit which they released to the public for modding, it's "dirt simple" to use, and it is what they used to actually make content for the game.
It is completely ludicrous to say that using RPG Maker is cheating, especially to say that of something as incredible as Teo Mathlein's Sunset Over Imdahl, a game made FROM SCRATCH, without using any of the default rm2k features or resources, with 100% custom resources and totally unique gameplay, by one man, in RM2k. The only thing that Teo took from enterbrain was an engine. See that link I gave you? I want you to call the teams that developed all those games that licensed the Source engine, and tell them that they were cheating, too, if you consider using an engine you didn't make to be cheating.
Finally, having "written" simple games in both javascript and Flash, I can say that using events creatively to make a unique RPG Maker game is in a general sense, just as challenging as "coding" from the ground up, it's just less frustrating.
The rest of your post is really too incoherent for me to address. No one is persecuting you, though, and as a matter of fact, if you didn't notice, I took a lot of shots at the other side of the argument as well. I think it's ridiculous to say that this guy isn't allowed to have an ego, but equally ridiculous to say that games made in RPG Maker in any way "don't count" just because they're made in RPG Maker.
This is such a bullshit argument. Because most RM games are shitty, nothing good can be made with RPG Maker? By the same logic, since most anime are shitty, no anime can ever be good. Since most movies are shitty, no movie can ever be good. Since most music is shitty, no music can ever be good. If you use this logic, your only option is to hate everything forever.
Yeah from scratch -resources- are well and dandy but it still isn't coding the game it's using events which is still like cheating. No matter how you look at it.. it's not the same.
FACT. Most commerical games are made using prebuilt, licensed engines that were not made for that particular game. For instance, at least twenty games are made using the Half-Life 2 Engine, Source, alone: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source_engine
FACT. Many commercial games are developed with SDKs (software development kits) and in integrated development environments (IDEs) which can be just as easy to work with as RPG Maker. I'm thinking about things like The Elder Scrolls Toolkit which they released to the public for modding, it's "dirt simple" to use, and it is what they used to actually make content for the game.
It is completely ludicrous to say that using RPG Maker is cheating, especially to say that of something as incredible as Teo Mathlein's Sunset Over Imdahl, a game made FROM SCRATCH, without using any of the default rm2k features or resources, with 100% custom resources and totally unique gameplay, by one man, in RM2k. The only thing that Teo took from enterbrain was an engine. See that link I gave you? I want you to call the teams that developed all those games that licensed the Source engine, and tell them that they were cheating, too, if you consider using an engine you didn't make to be cheating.
Finally, having "written" simple games in both javascript and Flash, I can say that using events creatively to make a unique RPG Maker game is in a general sense, just as challenging as "coding" from the ground up, it's just less frustrating.
The rest of your post is really too incoherent for me to address. No one is persecuting you, though, and as a matter of fact, if you didn't notice, I took a lot of shots at the other side of the argument as well. I think it's ridiculous to say that this guy isn't allowed to have an ego, but equally ridiculous to say that games made in RPG Maker in any way "don't count" just because they're made in RPG Maker.
I DARE you to say that's not true. The ideas may be okay, but, not all of them are original. Chances are if you look in every page of the RM Game section here you will see:
*A fan game based on an anime or rpg.
*Some kinda jrpg spin off that has to do with legends and kings.
*Something that has to do with japan, have japanese names or something like that..
*A joke game
*A five minute game
This is such a bullshit argument. Because most RM games are shitty, nothing good can be made with RPG Maker? By the same logic, since most anime are shitty, no anime can ever be good. Since most movies are shitty, no movie can ever be good. Since most music is shitty, no music can ever be good. If you use this logic, your only option is to hate everything forever.
If the government made it so that 2 + 2 = 5, then businesses would probably start shutting down and we'd enter another depression, or Y2k8.
Also, this is an internet forum, where you can just ignore people/not post while hung over/NOT DEBATE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO.
Also, this is an internet forum, where you can just ignore people/not post while hung over/NOT DEBATE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO.
Actually, good, fair debates are an excellent thing and should never be discouraged in a message board. By no means anyone should be forced to sing Kumbaya and agree with each other all the time. By all means, if you keep it clean, please continue your debate.
Sam
2200
Where I stand with this is that I'm very impressed that someone seemingly coded an entire game for the DS by scratch on his own and actually worked on it consistantly for five years without giving up. It is, as I've previously stated, an inspiration to people such as ourselves and I do have a large amount of respect for him for that.
Does this mean his game is brilliant? Well, no. The fact of the matter is that no one can say if this game was woth working on for five years for the simple reason that none of us have played it and the trailers don't allude as to what the plot and objectives of the game are.
I'll admit it's a little arrogant to make yourself the end boss of your own game (as the trailer states), to call your game after yourself and state it's the greatest achievement in gaming history. But if you only get one chance to do such a thing then take it, by all means. I know I would in his shoes.
As for whether an RPG Maker game counts as being made by only one person - if the graphics, music, tiles and story/ dialogue were produced by a single person, then yes. It does count as being made by one person. Though you can argue that Enterbrain provided us with the engine, tons of commercial games use pre-built engines. In particular the Unreal engine. Can you say a commercial game doesn't count or deserve respect because it was made with a pre-built engine, such as the Unreal engine? No. You can't.
At any rate, I don't think we should judge this until we have something playable in our hands. n the meantime I can only respect the amount of dedication such a project must have demanded.
Does this mean his game is brilliant? Well, no. The fact of the matter is that no one can say if this game was woth working on for five years for the simple reason that none of us have played it and the trailers don't allude as to what the plot and objectives of the game are.
I'll admit it's a little arrogant to make yourself the end boss of your own game (as the trailer states), to call your game after yourself and state it's the greatest achievement in gaming history. But if you only get one chance to do such a thing then take it, by all means. I know I would in his shoes.
As for whether an RPG Maker game counts as being made by only one person - if the graphics, music, tiles and story/ dialogue were produced by a single person, then yes. It does count as being made by one person. Though you can argue that Enterbrain provided us with the engine, tons of commercial games use pre-built engines. In particular the Unreal engine. Can you say a commercial game doesn't count or deserve respect because it was made with a pre-built engine, such as the Unreal engine? No. You can't.
At any rate, I don't think we should judge this until we have something playable in our hands. n the meantime I can only respect the amount of dedication such a project must have demanded.
RoseSkye
181
(No really.. to be truthful I have a hangover from yesterday. My head hurts alot when I think.. Not to mention I'm staring into a 1000 dollar light bulb. I couldn't debate reasonably if I tried.)
My whole stand on this thing I've said..
I literally can't say anything else about it.. in fact I repeated in my previous posts. Calling my view bullshit -is- bullshit. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't negate it. It just means that we have different views, as stated previously. You pick certain things out of my long winded paragraphs (which have nothing to do with the topic.. RM has nothing to do with DS.) and just speak on that.
So I'll just say what I'm going at without rambling...
*The guy is his own person
*We should be happy for him
*You should understand why he's like that, even if you dont agree with it.
*Just because someone doesn't listen to you, doesn't mean you should hate him.
*I forgot whatever else I've mentioned.. but.. I'm pretty sure all of it means the same thing.. take a chill pill.
Damn my head hurts like a bastard.. dear god in heaven I hate all things liquor.
My whole stand on this thing I've said..
I literally can't say anything else about it.. in fact I repeated in my previous posts. Calling my view bullshit -is- bullshit. Just because you don't agree with something doesn't negate it. It just means that we have different views, as stated previously. You pick certain things out of my long winded paragraphs (which have nothing to do with the topic.. RM has nothing to do with DS.) and just speak on that.
So I'll just say what I'm going at without rambling...
*The guy is his own person
*We should be happy for him
*You should understand why he's like that, even if you dont agree with it.
*Just because someone doesn't listen to you, doesn't mean you should hate him.
*I forgot whatever else I've mentioned.. but.. I'm pretty sure all of it means the same thing.. take a chill pill.
Damn my head hurts like a bastard.. dear god in heaven I hate all things liquor.
author=Max McGee link=topic=1978.msg32755#msg32755 date=1221853628Unless you want to alienate your audience. See John Romero and Daikatana. (Then again, there was more wrong with Daikatana than Romero's ego)
But the other part wants me to tell everyone that outside the RPGmaker community, with the exception of fundamentalist Christians, perhaps, having an ego is not considered an unforgivable, blacklist worthy sin.
author=Max McGee link=topic=1978.msg32755#msg32755 date=1221853628Gamers generally don't care about the dev team (with exception involving the head designers like Hideo Kojima, Sid Meier, Wil Wright, ect. All of which are established in the industry), nor do they care about small picks of pixel art like the opening character walkby. To be fair, trailers for RPGs generally have the same problem. They'll show off FMVs and art but little gameplay. Its not just him, but the whole genre.
What you don't get, Neophyte, is that this isn't some forum post he made in our community. This is not him talking among friends. This video is OBVIOUSLY a (well-produced) attempt at marketing. He is clearly in the marketing/advertising phase. And in that phase, being modest is not one of your priorities. Your priority is to show off and make your game look awesome sauce so people will buy it. Think about commercials and add campaigns for other COMMERCIAL GAMES, which this is.
Having a final title would be helpful for advertising though. An unmemorable title like "Rob's Game" probably isn't going to help any, but he might be holding off until he gets a publisher and can get the rights to a game name.
author=Max McGee link=topic=1978.msg32755#msg32755 date=1221853628I'm hoping his friends gave him some serious feedback since he doesn't seem to care for any criticism from anyone on the Internet, professionals in the industry included.
I agree with this, GRS, but I think it's 90% sure he had a select group of beta testers who have given him feedback on this game throughout his development. They were probably his friends, but so what. The whole "100% on my own" thing is probably a fake, like I said, a gimmick for him to sell the thing with. I'm pretty damn sure he's taken at least some feedback into account.
Its hard to properly criticise the game when its presented in a way that doesn't show the game off, just walking around and talking with people using text on a huge boring black box.
Also if its a DS game what's the other screen used for?
I agree with Sam though, the dedication is impressive if nothing else is.
Neophyte
155
author=Max McGee link=topic=1978.msg32755#msg32755 date=1221853628Ahhh, good point. ;)
This video is OBVIOUSLY a (well-produced) attempt at marketing. He is clearly in the marketing/advertising phase. And in that phase, being modest is not one of your priorities. Your priority is to show off and make your game look awesome sauce so people will buy it. Think about commercials and add campaigns for other COMMERCIAL GAMES, which this is. Do you recall any of them being modest? Because they're not. Marketing isn't about being modest, it's about selling yourself, pitching yourself, repping yourself. It is the opposite of modesty. Would anyone expect modesty from a trailer for Halo 3? For GTA:IV? Would we get pissed off and be like HOW COME THEY THINK THEIR GAME IS SO GREAT THOSE JERKS!
And yeah, making RPG's in general are very difficult. It would be impossible to make a game on the scale of FF6 with everything made custom by one person. A game like the one this guy made is much more believable.
CRITICISM DOES NOT WORK ON A "DO BETTER" BASIS. The right to criticism is not based on "merit" or being able to do better, at least not in anything resembling the real world. As a matter of fact, most professional critics and reviewers are ONLY good at being critical.
That is all. Bolded and 16 pt font just for fun.
Having looked at the trailer, it's not a game I'd be interested in, but it's nice that someone has done a DS game by themselves. I'm impressed on a "He made a DS game" level, the game itself doesn't really look fun to me. Maybe I'm wrong but I don't even have a DS so either way I'm not playing it.
Oops I missed a line:
Criticism is never a bad thing (Note: "ur game sux" is not criticism). Its the response that can be bad or good. Rejecting all criticism because you don't like it is not good.
author=RoseSkye link=topic=1978.msg32773#msg32773 date=1221858446I don't think you get how criticism works. People don't give criticism so if any of it is taken they feel more important (if they do then I doubt they'd ever give any good criticism). As it is I found something I didn't like with his product/presentation and brought it up. The only way how his response affects me is if any changes to the product after the criticism causes a shift in my opinion of the product to purchase it. If it doesn't well I buy it based on if the product/presentation is good enough to make me want to buy it or not. End of story.
Yet, don't you think the 'stroking the epenis' is a double edged blade? You want him to stroke your epenis by listening to you? Someone who just randomly emailed/messaged him.
Criticism is never a bad thing (Note: "ur game sux" is not criticism). Its the response that can be bad or good. Rejecting all criticism because you don't like it is not good.
author=Neok link=topic=1978.msg32619#msg32619 date=1221774521
From what I've seen of the guy, he's a little too enthusiastic about the whole one-man-project thing. He's also too paranoid and secretive about his project (he's been refusing to give any details because he's afraid someone's going to steal all of his ideas.) Plus, he's 100% convinced that he's got the biggest and best game possible and as such, does not respond to criticism at all.
I mean, its admirable that he's put so much effort into this, but his attitude and approach to marketing this game is really, really awful!
Yes. ZUN made way better effort than this guy. It did strike me off that he's a bit er...arrogant(?)
Ashramaru
39
Cocky or not you have to give the guy credit. I for one could care less about the games plot and all the bragging he is doing, what I am intrigued by is is focus and drive. For us who are constantly working on single maned projects this may be nothing, because we are used to working alone and creating our own worlds, resources, and plot lines, but to him and many who has yet to be exposed to such, this is amazing. I give him props for his work, perhaps if a company buys the game a story can be added, I mean the game just looks bland to me. Shoot give it to me and i'll add an Alucard-esque story of epic proportions to it, but regardless if he is cocky or not he did a good job.
McDohl
120
Everything's done by hand. I'm impressed at least on that level. But it doesn't look like a terribly entertaining game. It seems to be all about walk-around. And if the game's not entertaining, it loses its purpose.
Regardless, it'll probably land him a design position somewhere if he wants it. If I was thumbing through a stack of resumes and portfolios, "Made DS game from scratch" is certainly an attention getter.
Regardless, it'll probably land him a design position somewhere if he wants it. If I was thumbing through a stack of resumes and portfolios, "Made DS game from scratch" is certainly an attention getter.
Hmm, I think people seem to underestimate the work put into this guy's project when compared to, say, making an RM2k/3/XP/VX game or whatever.
He learned to program for the GBA, learned to program for the DS, presumedly made the game's engine and mechanics by hand, did all of the design, art, music and writing.
Sure, making an RM* game is a ton of work, but it's not really on the same level as producing all of the content in a game from scratch. So let the guy get a big head for a little. He deserves it. I'd still rather play Cave Story from the looks of it, though.
He learned to program for the GBA, learned to program for the DS, presumedly made the game's engine and mechanics by hand, did all of the design, art, music and writing.
Sure, making an RM* game is a ton of work, but it's not really on the same level as producing all of the content in a game from scratch. So let the guy get a big head for a little. He deserves it. I'd still rather play Cave Story from the looks of it, though.
