BOSS MONSTARS

author=ChaosProductions link=topic=1985.msg43629#msg43629 date=1226671123

author=TooManyToasters link=topic=1985.msg43502#msg43502 date=1226604258
Which doesn't have much of an effect for people like me who always set the battle system to turn-based when playing 2k3 games.

If only you could. That's been removed by now. (Or is it already gone in the version available for download?)
I removed it specifically because it broke too many of my bosses.

You might want to work around it instead. I know I'm not the only one who ABSOLUTELY FUCKING DESPISES the 2k3 real-time battle system.

See Monkey Island 2. Its one big puzzle: The game gives you a hint on what three items you need to defeat the boss and its up to the player to use the right items (either in the inventory or in the area) at the right time to get the three items needed to defeat the boss. One involves luring the boss to a specific area so you can flip a switch and the boss gets hit and drops one of the items. Another has leaving a trap where the boss pauses giving a wide, open, view of another item you need that you need to quickly grab. There's no way to get stuck in a YouAreScrewed position since there's no time limit and scewing up anywhere doesn't punish you at all (unlike Sierra games where you can get fustrating/hilarious death scenes)

Take MI2 and adapt it for your game. In MI2 you're running from the last boss in a small corridor maze. Change it so the boss can kill you and keep the player moving: Stick around too long and the boss will find you and kill you. The player needs to find some way to kill the boss while keeping away from him, keeping his eyes open to find anything that will help kill/trap/escape the boss.

author=Max McGee link=topic=1985.msg43875#msg43875 date=1226707622
That's a pretty cool idea. Rm2k3 has absolutely no pathfinding algorythms though, so the following part will be tricky....

>Follow Hero
>Follow Hero
>Follow Hero
Kidding.

author=GreatRedSpirit link=topic=1985.msg43870#msg43870 date=1226706766
Take MI2 and adapt it for your game. In MI2 you're running from the last boss in a small corridor maze. Change it so the boss can kill you and keep the player moving: Stick around too long and the boss will find you and kill you. The player needs to find some way to kill the boss while keeping away from him, keeping his eyes open to find anything that will help kill/trap/escape the boss.

Hmmm... In response to your question, you could possibly have the boss shooting in certain directions, and have the hero try and hit the boss, without being shot. Possibly him shooting randomly in four possible directions?
Right now, I can't think of any other ones. I bet I could think of more.

Getting back on topic...hm. There's several instances of good boss bottles I can think of, followed by -great- boss battles. (There's countless mediocre ones, and even a few bad/infuriating ones I can name, but that's another matter.)

So what makes a good one? In my opinion...

Emotional Investment:For those that played the first Grandia, tell me you didn't get a little grin on your face when you fought Mullen and got to smack his pretty little face a couple of times. Tell me you didn't get a tear in your eye when Laharl flew into a rage against the Seraph in Disgaea, or got a feeling of regret fighting Dhaos in Tales of Phantasia. (A good soundtrack can help with this even more, of course.) A fight that you've been looking forward to, whether it be between longtime rivals, a total scumbag of a villain, or just a highly skilled opponent...can be the difference between a forgettable fight and a memorable one.

Strategy vs. Attack, Heal, Rinse, Repeat:Chrono Trigger did this best, I think-a variety of bosses in it required you do more than simply attack again and again, instead using your noggin and figuring out attack patterns. Magus required you attack physically with Frog while the other party members used the correct element. The Security Bit would use a powerful attack if you didn't get rid of his drones first. And Lavos himself with his little...turnip...things, making you think they were mere support while the guy in the middle was the big boss, throwing you for a loop when you find out his 'support' is actually the main opponent! All of these required more thought than most, which made it all the more satisfying when you defeated him.

Wait, since when does he do that?:A minor note, but an effective one-a villain that changes up their attacks every so often can pack more memorable punch. Angel of Death is at 50% health? Fine, he'll start bringing out the big guns and healing himself. 25%? He's desperate now, using attacks that do massive damage...if they hit.

THAT'S new:A switch on the last one-a boss that can do something out of the ordinary makes him a lot more memorable, simply for that one thing! Bowyer from Super Mario RPG locking your buttons on you? Croc taking your items and using them in the middle of the fight? GoGo's only weakness the art of doing nothing? All of these are good examples. Find yourself a way to screw with the player's normal experience, make it different from a regular fight!

Style:It's all about the style. Sure, beating up the high school geek might be satisfying, especially if he's a villain...but if he ain't got style, it ain't no thang. I hate to beat a particular game into the dirt, but...Chrono Trigger, again. Tell me Magus didn't strike fear into your heart from the start of the fight to the finish.



Boss DON'Ts, on the other hand, are easy to avoid...though it might be worth it to have one or two, just to make the other bosses seem better by comparison. Be sparing with them, though.

Ludicrous survival time:20 turns isn't a bad amount of time to be fighting a boss, especially if he has all the other things mentioned above. 40 turns? That's...a little long. But when it gets to the point that you're taking more than half an hour on one fight, there's something wrong. (Final Boss battles -may- be an exception to this...)

BADBAD USED ELIXER:Usually goes hand in hand with the above-bosses with full restore moves, effectively undoing many turns of combat, prolonging the entire thing...especially if he does it several times over, or when he does it at relatively high HP values.

Hur hur, I too fast!:The villain can do more damage than you can heal, constantly, sometimes having a turn to -each character's- turn. (Shin Megami Tensei:Nocturne, I'm looking at you...) If they're already kicking you around like a football, they don't really need that extra speed boost...

Ha! Using up all your remedies accomplishes nothing!:Final boss battle of Final Fantasy IX. He couldn't really -hurt- me, per se...but when he managed to cause 15 different status effects to every character, every other turn-in other words, right when I'd recovered from the last use-it got...annoying. If it'd been used more sparingly, it would've merely been a good tactic. Using it so often made it simply cheap.

Speaking of cheap...:Right, back when I mentioned the Angel of Death using amazing attacks at 25% health? Well, combined with High Survivability, having an opponent use an attack that can one-hit KO a character, and being able to use it multiple times before you can respond, can kill the experience. (Especially if you have to go all the way back through a ten-minute cutscene just to start the fight again.)