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STRANGE, POSSIBLY UNSPEAKABLY DUMB IDEA (FFVII)
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suzy_cheesedreams
1480
suzy_cheesedreams
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CloseMy latest strange idea is to transplant a mystery/horror/human drama story into the world of FFVII (strictly from the original game, so ignoring the sequels) set well before the events of the original game, around thirty or so years. The plot would have little to nothing to do with the plot of FFVII, except that it would be set in a small nondescript mining town similar to North Corel, but on the northern continent, near Icicle Inn. The lifestream is concentrated there because of the crater and so Shinra wants to build a reactor in the town. So very similar to Barret's backstory.
However, the focus of the game is on a father and daughter team working as the town's police. The industry shifting from coal mining to the construction of the mako reactor is a minor plotline but the lifestream, great glacier and northern crater stuff would serve as a way of adding a sort of metaphysical element to the overall story.
SO it's sort of an indirect fan-game. It will be explicitly set in the world of FFVII. I just think there is a strange potential in placing a modern crime drama story in that world which is like light sci-fi/fantasy anyhow. Many of the towns in the original game already had that sort of downtrodden community drama thing going on, and I think expanding on that could be pretty interesting.
Is there more honour in outright making a fan game if you want to take advantage of the existing parts of said game or just making a game set in a verrrry similar world? I don't know. I think this idea is promising BUT ALSO INCREDIBLY STUPID, however it feels like the *right* kind of stupid...
I love FFVII unconditionally and would try whole-heartedly to pussy-foot over the original story as much as humanly possible if I actually made this... thing. No surprise cameo from a studly, young Vincent Valentine or anything like that.
Thoughts? Should I just make up my own damn world, or use dear old Earth? How have you, if at all, approached a fan game?
However, the focus of the game is on a father and daughter team working as the town's police. The industry shifting from coal mining to the construction of the mako reactor is a minor plotline but the lifestream, great glacier and northern crater stuff would serve as a way of adding a sort of metaphysical element to the overall story.
SO it's sort of an indirect fan-game. It will be explicitly set in the world of FFVII. I just think there is a strange potential in placing a modern crime drama story in that world which is like light sci-fi/fantasy anyhow. Many of the towns in the original game already had that sort of downtrodden community drama thing going on, and I think expanding on that could be pretty interesting.
Is there more honour in outright making a fan game if you want to take advantage of the existing parts of said game or just making a game set in a verrrry similar world? I don't know. I think this idea is promising BUT ALSO INCREDIBLY STUPID, however it feels like the *right* kind of stupid...
I love FFVII unconditionally and would try whole-heartedly to pussy-foot over the original story as much as humanly possible if I actually made this... thing. No surprise cameo from a studly, young Vincent Valentine or anything like that.
Thoughts? Should I just make up my own damn world, or use dear old Earth? How have you, if at all, approached a fan game?
I don't think it's a stupid idea. The fact that the world itself grabs you just goes to show it's got a lot of interesting design in it that is worthy of exploring. Then again, I started a fangame set 70+ years in the future of the world, so I'm a little biased.
I, for one, would love to see more fangames that are set in worlds instead of around characters.
I, for one, would love to see more fangames that are set in worlds instead of around characters.
Merlandese
3235
author=suzy_cheesedreams
Should I just make up my own damn world...?
author=Sated
Why not make the same game, with a similar story, but without the crutch that is someone else's IP to lean on?
My thoughts exactly. You've gone far enough away from the IP that with a couple of extra pushes you'd have your own great game idea. I think that's more worth exploring than anything Final Fantasy VII would bring to the table.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
Well, I have to disagree to a point. There is a lot of beautiful potential in FFVII's world. I get the crutch complaint, though I don't think working in someone else's IP is altogether terrible or necessarily lazy.
Chances are I won't use FFVII's world. It's something I've been considering over the last month but not in a fleshed out way until tonight. I've been working on the story for the last two years, though, and for most of that time it was just set on earth, with added supernatural elements. This is most likely just one of those "what if??!" tangents that you go down for a couple of days then scrap in favour of what you were doing before.
It's more the strangeness of setting a story in a game world that doesn't have much to do with the actual game's plot, that I find sort of charming. But as I said, it is unlikely that I will actually make this idea concrete.
Chances are I won't use FFVII's world. It's something I've been considering over the last month but not in a fleshed out way until tonight. I've been working on the story for the last two years, though, and for most of that time it was just set on earth, with added supernatural elements. This is most likely just one of those "what if??!" tangents that you go down for a couple of days then scrap in favour of what you were doing before.
It's more the strangeness of setting a story in a game world that doesn't have much to do with the actual game's plot, that I find sort of charming. But as I said, it is unlikely that I will actually make this idea concrete.
Merlandese
3235
author=suzy_cheesedreams
It's more the strangeness of setting a story in a game world that doesn't have much to do with the actual game's plot, that I find sort of charming. But as I said, it is unlikely that I will actually make this idea concrete.
I agree that it's an incredibly charming idea! If SE made it, or even if they hired some other party to make it, I'd firmly advocate such a thing. But if I detach from the purely hypothetical interest in the idea and give practical advice to the potential dev, my advice would always be to use those precious, rare work minutes on something that's YOURS and not something that belongs to someone else. :)
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
Well, that's the beauty of independent development!
I will say, though, that I do mostly agree with that sentiment, as it is the reason I have never really entertained the idea of making a fan game at any point before this.
I will say, though, that I do mostly agree with that sentiment, as it is the reason I have never really entertained the idea of making a fan game at any point before this.
TheNecromancer
3160
For me making a fan game, at first, was about learning how to use RPG Maker with premade graphics/music. Plus I like the world. Back then I had no ability to make a good story, it was always about the gameplay.
Now that I'm much better I want to make a good story in that fan world even more. I want to make the gameplay even better. On the flipside now that I'm capable I do want to make something from scratch to call my own. So my fan game is basically a little side project.
I don't have anything to say to talk you into or out of it, only that you should do what you want :) I like the idea of going on a tangent with something that is just a stepping stone in a great piece of work. Like when I'm watching Star Trek I think of all the great tangents that could exist. The episode "The Devil's Due" where at the end the woman is sent to jail and insists she will see Picard again. Or in the episode "Evolution" where they drop off a newly emerging nanobot life form on a planet, imagine how that might progress and what happens when they eventually get into space?
I don't agree at all with the crutch statement. If this was the only thing you were ever going to make in your lifetime then maybe. But we have lots of ideaa and they don't all have to be original. If this idea spawned from the world of FF7 then that's where it should take place.
As for the idea itself, it's probably not something I would have chosen but the premise is sound. How good it turns out to be depends on the execution.
Now that I'm much better I want to make a good story in that fan world even more. I want to make the gameplay even better. On the flipside now that I'm capable I do want to make something from scratch to call my own. So my fan game is basically a little side project.
I don't have anything to say to talk you into or out of it, only that you should do what you want :) I like the idea of going on a tangent with something that is just a stepping stone in a great piece of work. Like when I'm watching Star Trek I think of all the great tangents that could exist. The episode "The Devil's Due" where at the end the woman is sent to jail and insists she will see Picard again. Or in the episode "Evolution" where they drop off a newly emerging nanobot life form on a planet, imagine how that might progress and what happens when they eventually get into space?
I don't agree at all with the crutch statement. If this was the only thing you were ever going to make in your lifetime then maybe. But we have lots of ideaa and they don't all have to be original. If this idea spawned from the world of FF7 then that's where it should take place.
As for the idea itself, it's probably not something I would have chosen but the premise is sound. How good it turns out to be depends on the execution.
Yeah, the crutch statement is bunk - pure and utter bullshit. Every creator dabbles in recreating something at some point in their life - it's part of learning and growing. And it's a lot of fun, too. Fair enough, there are things you can't do with a world that isn't your own - but exploring a world not of your making is a challenge and well worth the effort of doing so. People who deem otherwise know not of what they speak.
So go forth, create a small game in the world of someone else's IP. As long as you're not wanting to sell the damn thing, there's not a thing wrong with doing so. It is not a crutch, but an essential tool to learn with.
So go forth, create a small game in the world of someone else's IP. As long as you're not wanting to sell the damn thing, there's not a thing wrong with doing so. It is not a crutch, but an essential tool to learn with.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The way you're using it I don't think it's a crutch. You're not actually making use of anything from the source material, you're just slipping in references to it.
So I guess making it a fan game will only really do three things in this case:
1) Make your game impossible to sell and very difficult to use on your resume
2) Draw in fans of FF7
3) Exclude people who dislike or haven't played FF7
There are, uh, very few people who haven't played FF7. Like, among people who play indie RPGs, my guess is that every single one of them has either played FF7 or watched someone else play it. The overwhelming majority of them probably like it too, at least to some extent - it's the most popular RPG there is among English-speaking audiences, except for possibly Chrono Trigger.
So the only real concern is problem #1. If you're concerned about how you look as a serious game developer, you'll look better if you make your own stuff. And if you think this might turn out good enough to sell, you should definitely make your own stuff.
So I guess making it a fan game will only really do three things in this case:
1) Make your game impossible to sell and very difficult to use on your resume
2) Draw in fans of FF7
3) Exclude people who dislike or haven't played FF7
There are, uh, very few people who haven't played FF7. Like, among people who play indie RPGs, my guess is that every single one of them has either played FF7 or watched someone else play it. The overwhelming majority of them probably like it too, at least to some extent - it's the most popular RPG there is among English-speaking audiences, except for possibly Chrono Trigger.
So the only real concern is problem #1. If you're concerned about how you look as a serious game developer, you'll look better if you make your own stuff. And if you think this might turn out good enough to sell, you should definitely make your own stuff.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Well, when I think of someone using a fanfiction setting as a "crutch," what I usually feel like that's implying is that they aren't any good at creating an original setting or original characters themselves, so they're instead using ones that were already good before they wrote the first word.
That's not the case here. He's creating an original setting and original characters. So I don't feel like it's the kind of crutch where he's using FF7 to replace his own bad writing with someone else's good writing. If he takes any pre-made story elements from FF7, it will just be the concept of the Lifestream, which was pretty bad writing in FF7 to begin with.
That's not the case here. He's creating an original setting and original characters. So I don't feel like it's the kind of crutch where he's using FF7 to replace his own bad writing with someone else's good writing. If he takes any pre-made story elements from FF7, it will just be the concept of the Lifestream, which was pretty bad writing in FF7 to begin with.
Sometimes the worlds created are more fun to explore than the stories that were told in them. I've read some very, very good fanfiction set in worlds that were already created. The stories couldn't be told in a world of the writer's own creation because it uses parts and lore of the world in order to explore new areas - things that are completely recognisable and un-subbable.
For example, One Piece - a world built around the 100 missing years, the Pirate King, the islands that are magnetic poles, the Red Line, the Grand Line and Devil Fruit. If you want to play with those elements, you can't just make your own versions of them because you're using very recognisable aspects of a world that is built in a particular way with particular rules. To take those ideas and try to make your own world using them would come off as a shallow copy because the history, rules and connection to that world are empty, and would be easily seen anyway. So making a fan work is a lot of sense.
Now, if instead you just wanted to play with the idea of a Pirate King, that's different - you can make a world where pirates are seen in the light you want the to be seen in, you can add your own rules to abilities and skills and lands and the world itself. Your work might be called derivative or inspired by the other works that came before it, still, but it'd be your own.
But if you want to use certain specific things in the story that are instantly recognisable, it's better to aim for fanwork than your own fiction.
For example, One Piece - a world built around the 100 missing years, the Pirate King, the islands that are magnetic poles, the Red Line, the Grand Line and Devil Fruit. If you want to play with those elements, you can't just make your own versions of them because you're using very recognisable aspects of a world that is built in a particular way with particular rules. To take those ideas and try to make your own world using them would come off as a shallow copy because the history, rules and connection to that world are empty, and would be easily seen anyway. So making a fan work is a lot of sense.
Now, if instead you just wanted to play with the idea of a Pirate King, that's different - you can make a world where pirates are seen in the light you want the to be seen in, you can add your own rules to abilities and skills and lands and the world itself. Your work might be called derivative or inspired by the other works that came before it, still, but it'd be your own.
But if you want to use certain specific things in the story that are instantly recognisable, it's better to aim for fanwork than your own fiction.
suzy_cheesedreams
1480
Ah, well, it wasn't intended to be a learning exercise; I am capable of creating my own original content. I could theoretically squish this story into a world I'm working on for another game idea. Or I'll just stick to earth/supernatural.
What I was thinking of is in line with what Liberty is talking about. Utilizing specific, recognisable elements from an established world because you see promise in further exploration of the themes and places of that world. At most it would have included Shinra trying to expand into the town and inevitably succeeding despite the protestation of the townspeople, something about the lifestream and the crater, residual malevolence from Jenova's impact there, uhhh possibly a passing mention of Professor Gast and Ifalna and the legend of the Cetra on that continent. Another, if minor, advantage was that I had planned since forever to have the town be called Uranus (because of the cold setting, and because the central drama is about fatherhood), and that is not so out of place in FFVII as Gaia apparently sits in the Solar System anyhow.
I mean, in a dramatic sense, there is a lot to work with. There's already an eerie and metaphysical quality to that world that would lend itself well to a supernatural drama type of story.
But I unwisely hadn't considered the wider problem of using material from something so popular, even if my intention would never be to capitalize on that.
Mostly it fits in with my philosophy of wanting to make weird shareware unlikely to attract a large or broad audience. That allows more freedom in what you can make, if you're not bothered about making money or acquiring a large fanbase. Like, I doubt SE would be in any hurry to make a new game for the FFVII canon with the type of story I had in mind so it would be cool to make something myself.
I understand that's not an attitude for everybody, though.
What I was thinking of is in line with what Liberty is talking about. Utilizing specific, recognisable elements from an established world because you see promise in further exploration of the themes and places of that world. At most it would have included Shinra trying to expand into the town and inevitably succeeding despite the protestation of the townspeople, something about the lifestream and the crater, residual malevolence from Jenova's impact there, uhhh possibly a passing mention of Professor Gast and Ifalna and the legend of the Cetra on that continent. Another, if minor, advantage was that I had planned since forever to have the town be called Uranus (because of the cold setting, and because the central drama is about fatherhood), and that is not so out of place in FFVII as Gaia apparently sits in the Solar System anyhow.
I mean, in a dramatic sense, there is a lot to work with. There's already an eerie and metaphysical quality to that world that would lend itself well to a supernatural drama type of story.
But I unwisely hadn't considered the wider problem of using material from something so popular, even if my intention would never be to capitalize on that.
Mostly it fits in with my philosophy of wanting to make weird shareware unlikely to attract a large or broad audience. That allows more freedom in what you can make, if you're not bothered about making money or acquiring a large fanbase. Like, I doubt SE would be in any hurry to make a new game for the FFVII canon with the type of story I had in mind so it would be cool to make something myself.
I understand that's not an attitude for everybody, though.
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