FUNDAMENTALS OF AN RPG - PART I: THE ROLE OF THE PLAYER
Posts
FUNdamentals of RPGs
Part I - The Role of the Player
By kentona
Based on the book Swords & Circuitry by Neal Hallford and Jana Hallford.
In exploring what makes an RPG fun to play, this article series will explore the following areas :
I. The Role of the Player
II. Attributes and Skills
III. Story and Worldbuilding
IV. Quests and Objectives
V. Rewards
VI. Balancing
The Roots of Role-Playing
When we think of RPGs, we think of stats, classes, weapons and equipments, spells, monsters, dungeons, quests and a host of other increasingly interdependent elements. But if you strip that down, strip away all the tables, the classes, the worldbuilding, the treasures, the balancing, what you're left with s a good old-fashioned game of make-believe. At the center of this game of pretend is the concept of My Guy - the progression and ultimate success of who you are playing, whether it be cops & robbers, or cowbows & indians, or space rangers, or wizards and knights, or Ninja Turtles. The story revolves around My Guy and how My Guy gets good enough to Save the Day.
Translating this back to your more traditional RPG elements, donning the role of My Guy is akin to assuming the role and character of the hero in the game. This hero can be customly created using some character generation system, selected from a gallery of avatars who represent different types of characters you might like to play, or a preset foundling that you can direct and grow. In any case, a certain attachment is made to the avatar and you care about the progression and ultimate success of My Guy.
What separates a simple game of make-believe from an RPG is structure. By creating a universal system of reasonable, unbreakable rules, RPGs allows players to interact in fun but fair situations in which all players have a reasonable chance of success. The fun is derived from the development of the playable character (or characters) within the rules of the game world in order to achieve the game's goal in a satisfactory way.
The Role of the Player Character
No matter what other features are thrown into the mix, RPGs are at their root about the player's identification with one or more avatars. Through their alter egos the player will explore the game world and perform all the tasks required to save the planet, rescue the princess and slay the evil demon lord. Developing ways to foster intimacy of feeling for their avatar should remain a priority throughout the development of any RPG. One way to do this is to create avatars that reflect the style of play of the player you are trying to attact.
The Fragmaster
Wants:
Games that cater to the fragmaster must put the combat system at the very center of the game. All of the major resolutions in the game can be in some way solved by violent confrontation. Emphasis on unique combat moves, varied spell or skill systems, and numerous and challenging monster types tend to pay off very well for the designer catering to the fragmaster. Since the primary means of progression in this design revolve around combat, enemy design and AI take a priority in the RPG's development. Each encounter should present a unique threat with weaknesses to exploit.
Examples:
Using Diablo II as an example, we can see that the entire game is focused on building up the skills and stats of your character in order to bash your way through to the end. All of the major quests involve smashing a monster to bits in one way, shape or form, if not as a primary objective then as a necessary step to achieving the objective.
The Problem Solver
Wants:
The problem solver wants to find a way through the problem using the prevailing rules of the game reality. Whenever possible, problem solvers want to outthink the game. To center the RPG around this player type, a designer must be able to present the player with creative options to combine objects, actions, or strategies in different ways to solve the same fundamental problems. A flexible combat system that allows superior strategy to overcome sheer firepower will play very well with this audience. Puzzles, riddles and mazes will also be welcomed. The key to enticing a problem solver to play is to allow them to take their own initiative when presented with just enough information to succeed in the game. Avoid explicitly stating what the player needs to do in every instance of a problem.
The difficulty in designing for a problem solver is the danger of complex systems growing unwieldly very fast. If there are hundreds of ways to solve every problem, it will be impossible to implement and test each one individually. The important thing to remember is that you don't have to make complex rules to achieve complex results. Chess has only 16 playing pieces and a limited set of movement rules, yet is capable of generating astounding complexity. Employ simple rules in your game and layout the game world to make use of those rules.
Examples:
In the Legend of Zelda games you find items, like the Hookshot and Boomerang, that employ simple rules but the game world is designed in such a way that you must creatively employ these items to progress. In the Knights of the Old Republic games your characters have access to outside of battle skills, such as Computer Use and Security, that allow the player to take multiple paths to achieve the same gold, for example lockpicking a door or bashing it to the ground.
The Treasure Hunter
Wants:
The treasure hunter sees the game world as one large (and perhaps twisted) shopping mall. Every last barrel, box, chest, bag, case and plasteel cylinder exists only for their plunder. Zombies and shopkeepers are only obstacles in the way of getting more items. As such, a comprehensive inventory system is needed to make use of the many and varied items available to the properly outfitted treasure hunter. An item's use must be clear and detailed history of the item is valued. The biggest draw for a treasure hunter is the promise of bigger and better loot down the road.
Examples:
Every game caters in some aspect to the treasure hunter. Nearly every dungeon or cave you'd spelunk in an RPG has some treasure scattered throughout it's depths. Monsters are almost always a source of potential goodies for a player to collect, then later sell or use in their own right. Diablo games take monster drops to an extreme and serves as a good example of randomly generated items. Baldur's Gate (and BioWare in general) does an excellent job of explaining the history and usefulness of every item in the game. Knights of the Old Republic II has an excellent equipment crafting system and Dragon Quest VIII has a clever alchemy system.
The Story Chaser
Wants:
The story chaser appreciates a well-crafted and well-presented story. Character development, interactive dialog and intricate plot twists all add to the story chaser's enjoyment of the game. A story chaser is also someone who wants a semiguaranteed experience - after all the blood, sweat and tears invested in the game the story must come to a satisfying conclusion. An RPG with strong focus on story can become overwhelming to design very readily. Create a simple storyboard in order to easily add, remove, and keep track of story data and progression. Create a character sheet to keep track of character details, personality, beliefs, preferences and alignments as well as personal goals and desires. When writing for a character, imagine yourself in their shoes and make them act and react within their set of beliefs and attitudes. Be creative in your presentation of material (don't limit yourself to walls of text) - include cutscenes and imagery to spice up the presentation.
Examples:
Final Fantasy games tend to put heavy focus of story and plot and character development. The stories are often intricate and varied, a range from serious to sad to absurd throughout the game. Every character has a detailed history and personality, and interact differently with other major characters.
The Navel Gazer
Wants:
Everything about a game has to be about the navel gazer. Kingdoms can rise or they can fall, but all navel gazers really care about is is that their guy ends up as the toughest, coolest, smartest, best-dressed, richest bravo in all the world. No one and nothing else is even remotely important. To design for a navel gazer, you need to provide them with a system of skills and attributes that can be steadily built up and who's growth can be clearly monitored. On the flip side of that, whatever abilities you grant the navel gazer, you must also provide ongoing opportunities as frequently as possible for those abilities to be applied. Without a doubt, most RPGs do a fairly good job of catering to the gazer, at least in respect to combat skills. For skills that are unrelated to combat, be wary that skills that have no consistently useful function are likely to be ignored and unexplored by the player.
Examples:
Like I mentioned, most games do a good job of catering to the gazer, but I'd like to point out some specific examples. Final Fantasy Tactics allows you to explore a variety of classes and techniques and apply them throughout the game. Knights of the Old Republic games do an excellent job at providing outside of battle skills that remain useful and relevant throughout the gameplay. Diablo is simply a min/maxer's dream.
The Tourist
Wants:
The tourist's primary desire is to explore an exotic or whimsical place that invites them deeper into mystery, beauty or terror. They desire a highly detailed and interactive environment that immerses as many senses as possible. Small details make the world real and enables the tourist to lose themselves in the make-believe world. Ambiance and setting play a large part in keeping the tourist's interest.
Constant forward momentum creates the prime energy of the tourist's romp, requiring that there always be a fairly low challenge threshold for the player to overcome in order to continue exploring, but by the same token there must be the occasional roadblock that make the journey seem worth taking.
Examples:
The Baldur's Gate games are set in the immersive and gigantic world of the Forgotten Realms, and, as such, have a rich history and consistent world dynamics.
No one player is exclusively one type of player or another. Each player will be some blend of the different types to differing degrees. However, these types are going to be driving your biggest decisions about how your games are created and what you decide to put in them. In the end, it is going to be how you mix and mesh the preferences of all of these different kinds of players that will determine the final feel and style of the games you wish to make.
Creating the Player Character
There are many ways to introduce the player to their avatar, and I will briefly introduce you to three of them: blank-slate character generation, class selection, and the foundling approach.
Character Generation
At the start of the game, the player is immediately presented with a series of screens from which they must make several choices about the avatar's name, gender, looks, race, profession, specializations, and a myriad of other traits, stats and skills. A player may be given a limited number of points to distribute into stats or skills, or points may be randomly "rolled" and assigned to determine an avatar's intial stats and skills.
Example:
Baldur's Gate
Advantages:
Class Selection
The player is given a choice of different professional classes and is asked to name their avatar.
Example:
Diablo II
Advantages:
Foundling Approach
The player is immediately given control of an avatar but does not control initial attributes. The player usually has some limited control in how the avatar develops.
Example:
Final Fantasy VII
Advantages:
Conclusion of Part I
If you take nothing else from this article, I hope you understand that the player is central to the game. If you become someone who is willing to pay attention to the needs of your players, you're going to be one step ahead. Remember that players really want to enjoy the games they attempt to play. If you can find a common ground between your own ideas and those of the game-player public, you'll find that you both are having much more fun.
Part I - The Role of the Player
By kentona
Based on the book Swords & Circuitry by Neal Hallford and Jana Hallford.
In exploring what makes an RPG fun to play, this article series will explore the following areas :
I. The Role of the Player
II. Attributes and Skills
III. Story and Worldbuilding
IV. Quests and Objectives
V. Rewards
VI. Balancing
The Roots of Role-Playing
When we think of RPGs, we think of stats, classes, weapons and equipments, spells, monsters, dungeons, quests and a host of other increasingly interdependent elements. But if you strip that down, strip away all the tables, the classes, the worldbuilding, the treasures, the balancing, what you're left with s a good old-fashioned game of make-believe. At the center of this game of pretend is the concept of My Guy - the progression and ultimate success of who you are playing, whether it be cops & robbers, or cowbows & indians, or space rangers, or wizards and knights, or Ninja Turtles. The story revolves around My Guy and how My Guy gets good enough to Save the Day.
Translating this back to your more traditional RPG elements, donning the role of My Guy is akin to assuming the role and character of the hero in the game. This hero can be customly created using some character generation system, selected from a gallery of avatars who represent different types of characters you might like to play, or a preset foundling that you can direct and grow. In any case, a certain attachment is made to the avatar and you care about the progression and ultimate success of My Guy.
What separates a simple game of make-believe from an RPG is structure. By creating a universal system of reasonable, unbreakable rules, RPGs allows players to interact in fun but fair situations in which all players have a reasonable chance of success. The fun is derived from the development of the playable character (or characters) within the rules of the game world in order to achieve the game's goal in a satisfactory way.
The Role of the Player Character
"You are who you pretend to be" - Sherry Turkle
No matter what other features are thrown into the mix, RPGs are at their root about the player's identification with one or more avatars. Through their alter egos the player will explore the game world and perform all the tasks required to save the planet, rescue the princess and slay the evil demon lord. Developing ways to foster intimacy of feeling for their avatar should remain a priority throughout the development of any RPG. One way to do this is to create avatars that reflect the style of play of the player you are trying to attact.
The Fragmaster
Wants:
- Game ojectives that are primarily resolved by combat
- Primary focus on the combat capabilities of the characters or avatars
Games that cater to the fragmaster must put the combat system at the very center of the game. All of the major resolutions in the game can be in some way solved by violent confrontation. Emphasis on unique combat moves, varied spell or skill systems, and numerous and challenging monster types tend to pay off very well for the designer catering to the fragmaster. Since the primary means of progression in this design revolve around combat, enemy design and AI take a priority in the RPG's development. Each encounter should present a unique threat with weaknesses to exploit.
Examples:
- Diablo series
Using Diablo II as an example, we can see that the entire game is focused on building up the skills and stats of your character in order to bash your way through to the end. All of the major quests involve smashing a monster to bits in one way, shape or form, if not as a primary objective then as a necessary step to achieving the objective.
The Problem Solver
Wants:
- Flexible game objectives with multiple possible resolutions
- The ability to combine objects, actions, and strategies to arrive at creative solutions to game problems
The problem solver wants to find a way through the problem using the prevailing rules of the game reality. Whenever possible, problem solvers want to outthink the game. To center the RPG around this player type, a designer must be able to present the player with creative options to combine objects, actions, or strategies in different ways to solve the same fundamental problems. A flexible combat system that allows superior strategy to overcome sheer firepower will play very well with this audience. Puzzles, riddles and mazes will also be welcomed. The key to enticing a problem solver to play is to allow them to take their own initiative when presented with just enough information to succeed in the game. Avoid explicitly stating what the player needs to do in every instance of a problem.
The difficulty in designing for a problem solver is the danger of complex systems growing unwieldly very fast. If there are hundreds of ways to solve every problem, it will be impossible to implement and test each one individually. The important thing to remember is that you don't have to make complex rules to achieve complex results. Chess has only 16 playing pieces and a limited set of movement rules, yet is capable of generating astounding complexity. Employ simple rules in your game and layout the game world to make use of those rules.
Examples:
- Legend of Zelda series
- Knights of the Old Republic series
In the Legend of Zelda games you find items, like the Hookshot and Boomerang, that employ simple rules but the game world is designed in such a way that you must creatively employ these items to progress. In the Knights of the Old Republic games your characters have access to outside of battle skills, such as Computer Use and Security, that allow the player to take multiple paths to achieve the same gold, for example lockpicking a door or bashing it to the ground.
The Treasure Hunter
Wants:
- Frequently distributed and valuable booty
- Flexible game economy with many opportunities to find bargains and make shrewd sales decisions
- Inventory system with strong organizational properties and mechanisms to learn more about objects
The treasure hunter sees the game world as one large (and perhaps twisted) shopping mall. Every last barrel, box, chest, bag, case and plasteel cylinder exists only for their plunder. Zombies and shopkeepers are only obstacles in the way of getting more items. As such, a comprehensive inventory system is needed to make use of the many and varied items available to the properly outfitted treasure hunter. An item's use must be clear and detailed history of the item is valued. The biggest draw for a treasure hunter is the promise of bigger and better loot down the road.
Examples:
- Diablo series
- Baldur's Gate series
- Knights of the Old Republic series
- Dragon Quest series
Every game caters in some aspect to the treasure hunter. Nearly every dungeon or cave you'd spelunk in an RPG has some treasure scattered throughout it's depths. Monsters are almost always a source of potential goodies for a player to collect, then later sell or use in their own right. Diablo games take monster drops to an extreme and serves as a good example of randomly generated items. Baldur's Gate (and BioWare in general) does an excellent job of explaining the history and usefulness of every item in the game. Knights of the Old Republic II has an excellent equipment crafting system and Dragon Quest VIII has a clever alchemy system.
The Story Chaser
Wants:
- A story that rewards their efforts
- Well-written dialog and a solid story line
- Deep character development and interaction
- Ability to follow one or more story threads
The story chaser appreciates a well-crafted and well-presented story. Character development, interactive dialog and intricate plot twists all add to the story chaser's enjoyment of the game. A story chaser is also someone who wants a semiguaranteed experience - after all the blood, sweat and tears invested in the game the story must come to a satisfying conclusion. An RPG with strong focus on story can become overwhelming to design very readily. Create a simple storyboard in order to easily add, remove, and keep track of story data and progression. Create a character sheet to keep track of character details, personality, beliefs, preferences and alignments as well as personal goals and desires. When writing for a character, imagine yourself in their shoes and make them act and react within their set of beliefs and attitudes. Be creative in your presentation of material (don't limit yourself to walls of text) - include cutscenes and imagery to spice up the presentation.
Examples:
- Final Fantasy series
- Knights of the Old Republic series
Final Fantasy games tend to put heavy focus of story and plot and character development. The stories are often intricate and varied, a range from serious to sad to absurd throughout the game. Every character has a detailed history and personality, and interact differently with other major characters.
The Navel Gazer
Wants:
- Significant opportunities to challenge, advance and add character skills
- Skills that present a clear and frequent benefit to the player
- A comprehensible way to track the advancement of skills either numerically or graphically
Everything about a game has to be about the navel gazer. Kingdoms can rise or they can fall, but all navel gazers really care about is is that their guy ends up as the toughest, coolest, smartest, best-dressed, richest bravo in all the world. No one and nothing else is even remotely important. To design for a navel gazer, you need to provide them with a system of skills and attributes that can be steadily built up and who's growth can be clearly monitored. On the flip side of that, whatever abilities you grant the navel gazer, you must also provide ongoing opportunities as frequently as possible for those abilities to be applied. Without a doubt, most RPGs do a fairly good job of catering to the gazer, at least in respect to combat skills. For skills that are unrelated to combat, be wary that skills that have no consistently useful function are likely to be ignored and unexplored by the player.
Examples:
- Final Fantasy series
- Knights of the Old Republic series
- Diablo series
Like I mentioned, most games do a good job of catering to the gazer, but I'd like to point out some specific examples. Final Fantasy Tactics allows you to explore a variety of classes and techniques and apply them throughout the game. Knights of the Old Republic games do an excellent job at providing outside of battle skills that remain useful and relevant throughout the gameplay. Diablo is simply a min/maxer's dream.
The Tourist
Wants:
- A large explorable world
- Detailed environments that invite player interaction
- A way to track progression in the game world
The tourist's primary desire is to explore an exotic or whimsical place that invites them deeper into mystery, beauty or terror. They desire a highly detailed and interactive environment that immerses as many senses as possible. Small details make the world real and enables the tourist to lose themselves in the make-believe world. Ambiance and setting play a large part in keeping the tourist's interest.
Constant forward momentum creates the prime energy of the tourist's romp, requiring that there always be a fairly low challenge threshold for the player to overcome in order to continue exploring, but by the same token there must be the occasional roadblock that make the journey seem worth taking.
Examples:
- Baldur's Gate series
The Baldur's Gate games are set in the immersive and gigantic world of the Forgotten Realms, and, as such, have a rich history and consistent world dynamics.
No one player is exclusively one type of player or another. Each player will be some blend of the different types to differing degrees. However, these types are going to be driving your biggest decisions about how your games are created and what you decide to put in them. In the end, it is going to be how you mix and mesh the preferences of all of these different kinds of players that will determine the final feel and style of the games you wish to make.
Creating the Player Character
There are many ways to introduce the player to their avatar, and I will briefly introduce you to three of them: blank-slate character generation, class selection, and the foundling approach.
Character Generation
At the start of the game, the player is immediately presented with a series of screens from which they must make several choices about the avatar's name, gender, looks, race, profession, specializations, and a myriad of other traits, stats and skills. A player may be given a limited number of points to distribute into stats or skills, or points may be randomly "rolled" and assigned to determine an avatar's intial stats and skills.
Example:
Baldur's Gate
Advantages:
- gives a significant amount of control to the player
- popular with people who are familiar with role-playing games in general
- can be initially overwhelming
- bars quick entry into a game
- can suffer from poor character personality development
Class Selection
The player is given a choice of different professional classes and is asked to name their avatar.
Example:
Diablo II
Advantages:
- allows players to very quickly identify the basic kind of character they want to play
- quick turnaround from starting game to playing
- typically bound to class and level system
- stuck with whatever skills and restrictions are associated with that class
Foundling Approach
The player is immediately given control of an avatar but does not control initial attributes. The player usually has some limited control in how the avatar develops.
Example:
Final Fantasy VII
Advantages:
- the player is not required to understand any of the complexities of classes, skills, or attributes
- can immediately jump into the gameplay
- the player is stuck with a main character they haven't chosen and who may not reflect the kind of character that the player wants to play
Conclusion of Part I
If you take nothing else from this article, I hope you understand that the player is central to the game. If you become someone who is willing to pay attention to the needs of your players, you're going to be one step ahead. Remember that players really want to enjoy the games they attempt to play. If you can find a common ground between your own ideas and those of the game-player public, you'll find that you both are having much more fun.
Well, I think it's an excellent article! It's helpful to homebrew designers to have someone with a good deal of insight spell out the what's whats and the what's nots of various player and game types. I don't think many people in this community think much about other players -- they always focus strictly on what they like the most about games, and routinely overlook whatever anyone else cares about.
author=brandonabley link=topic=201.msg2851#msg2851 date=1188233597
Well, I think it's an excellent article! It's helpful to homebrew designers to have someone with a good deal of insight spell out the what's whats and the what's nots of various player and game types. I don't think many people in this community think much about other players -- they always focus strictly on what they like the most about games, and routinely overlook whatever anyone else cares about.
Totally. Unfortunately almost all amateur developers fall into this rut. Even you maladroit, though we love you anyways.
Example: Brickroad likes dungeons and combat, so he focused his game around that. He stuck with the RTP graphics and stock music, deeming them efficient enough. He failed to see how the RTP aspects of his game would be negatively viewed and would undermine his efforts in the dungeon realm. Thusly, most didn't play Kinetic Cipher because it looked the same as Don Adventure's from way back when and they went to games that looked like they had more effort put into them. It's unfortunate, but you have to try to make your game for everyone unless you like being relegated to niche roles or even worse: obscurity.
author=rcholbert link=topic=201.msg2853#msg2853 date=1188243130
Totally. Unfortunately almost all amateur developers fall into this rut. Even you maladroit, though we love you anyways.
Example: Brickroad likes dungeons and combat, so he focused his game around that. He stuck with the RTP graphics and stock music, deeming them efficient enough. He failed to see how the RTP aspects of his game would be negatively viewed and would undermine his efforts in the dungeon realm. Thusly, most didn't play Kinetic Cipher because it looked the same as Don Adventure's from way back when and they went to games that looked like they had more effort put into them. It's unfortunate, but you have to try to make your game for everyone unless you like being relegated to niche roles or even worse: obscurity.
Well, part of the fun is in realizing your very specific creative vision. If you don't have a financial bottom line breathing down your throat or an investment to recoup, you have relative freedom to make your game as bizarre and specific as you want -- I did that with my game, and you didn't like it, but I was exceptionally proud of it at the time and quite a lot of people enjoyed it. I would argue until the end of time that, when I made my game, I made my game for exactly who I wanted to, and that unfortunately, some people did not fall into my target audience.
Brickroad is a fairly good example, because his game was brilliant, but he had hundreds of downloads and not thousands. Nobody can ever dispute the quality of his game, unless of course, they did not play it because it had stock (though very competently-used) graphics. There's much more to a game than screenshots, though, and part of it is how you present it.
On GW's forums, which is the only place I recall Brickroad pimping his game, he presented it as a joke -- he showed the worst screens he could come up with accompanied by captions like "LOL testplay and debugwalk to solve this puzzle" instead of "Search for dozens of cleverly-hidden secret paths!" At no point did Brickroad present his game as a throwback to The Adventures of Lolo or Lufia II and that the puzzles were brilliant, nor did he tell anyone that every single battle as a careful game of battling debilitating status effects and overcoming sophisticated enemy behaviors. With Brickroad, if you weren't in on the joke, you had no idea what was inside, and I'd say that was much more important to his perceived lack of success than his stock graphics (most of the game used rips, anyway, and he could have taken screenshots of those scenarios). His friends played and loved it, but they were the only people he was willing to admit to that it was a good game.
You can also point at Kentona's new game, and argue that it looks terrible by conventional RPGMaker community analysis, but it's popular and a lot of people are very interested. This is because he advertises its features and tells players that it is an intentional throwback to old-school games with a lot of clever special gameplay systems. If his topic had looked more like Brickroad's, perhaps nobody would have played it, because his goal might not have been immediately apparent.
I think you are forgetting the part that occured before that, where Brickroad advertised his game to every community he could find in a positive way hoping to find a new userbase. He was never really satisfied with just #rm2k loving the game, as you are well aware.
His posts routinely were knocked off the front page until they disappeared from sight. GW, Charas, Township... anyone that would listen. And they all ignored it.
It's pretty obvious to me.
Note: Hero's Realm also looks and presents itself as an old school emulation, to the very sprites. Granted, he does use some RTP but there are a lot of throwback graphics to be found. Kentona advertises his game as an homage to NES and early SNES style games. Kinetic Cipher is NOT meant to be a throwback. It's an entirely new game. But the fact that you even associate the two is evidence of the poor graphic design found in Kinetic Cipher. :D
His posts routinely were knocked off the front page until they disappeared from sight. GW, Charas, Township... anyone that would listen. And they all ignored it.
It's pretty obvious to me.
Note: Hero's Realm also looks and presents itself as an old school emulation, to the very sprites. Granted, he does use some RTP but there are a lot of throwback graphics to be found. Kentona advertises his game as an homage to NES and early SNES style games. Kinetic Cipher is NOT meant to be a throwback. It's an entirely new game. But the fact that you even associate the two is evidence of the poor graphic design found in Kinetic Cipher. :D
author=rcholbert link=topic=201.msg2856#msg2856 date=1188248242Is this a pot-shot taken at me? ;) And I thought brandonabley was talking about Hellion... But either works, really.
Note: Hero's Realm also looks and presents itself as an old school emulation, to the very sprites. Granted, he does use some RTP but there are a lot of throwback graphics to be found. Kentona advertises his game as an homage to NES and early SNES style games. Kinetic Cipher is NOT meant to be a throwback. It's an entirely new game. But the fact that you even associate the two is evidence of the poor graphic design found in Kinetic Cipher. :D
I went with old-school and sold up my games as old-school because there's less competition in that area in the RM indie game community - there just aren't as many old-school type games out there. It increases the chances that my game will standout. I know I can't compete with all these great-looking games with elaborate storylines and custom music, so I don't. Any game of mine following that formula would just get lost in the crowd.
Also, I'm definately a mix of the Navel Gazer & Treasure Hunter, so I focus my efforts at satisfying that audience. I think part of the success of my games lie in the fact that it's a pretty big potential audience.
Lastly, I borrow concepts heavily from proven successful commercial RPGs and games. Not one particular aspect of any of my games are overly innovative or fresh. I put my own spin on things and work within the limitations of Rm2k3 to make a game I'd like to play.
Nah, it's not a potshot. You intentionally gave your game a retro look and it gave it a sense of style. Brickroad just neglected the graphical aspects of his game and ended up looking like it was a retro game.
Note: The term retro is relative.
PS. I guess he was talking about Hellion, which is fine because it even displays my point better. :D
Note: The term retro is relative.
PS. I guess he was talking about Hellion, which is fine because it even displays my point better. :D
Not to lessen your point, holb, but I find not any mention of KC on Township, save for a few mentions in the Misao topic. :O But, it certainly true that, on a lot of places, it was downright ignored, and more than likely for the reasons you stated. I personally can appreciate how good the game is, but I'm just not one of the people in its target audience. I tried to like it, but all I can do is appreciate it, at best.
I certainly like the idea of the article, but all it does is further solidify what some people may be thinking with their games. That is, if they're pretty sure of the audience they're aiming for. I think it's best for those who have an idea of what they want, or else have their game a certain style, and are either unsure or are expecting (and not getting) an audience for their game, since they released it to the wrong one.
I certainly like the idea of the article, but all it does is further solidify what some people may be thinking with their games. That is, if they're pretty sure of the audience they're aiming for. I think it's best for those who have an idea of what they want, or else have their game a certain style, and are either unsure or are expecting (and not getting) an audience for their game, since they released it to the wrong one.
You can read the canceled update from http://www.kineticcipher.com. I may have gotten Township wrong (maybe it was whatever terrible sites that merged into Township, I dunno), but Brick admits to whoring out his game everywhere in search of a response. When he got none, it largely doomed his project.
I would've found it then, since they didn't delete any topics. But, yeah, I remember reading his rant about it. I'm not going to go on a tirade about it, since this is neither the time nor place to do so. Topic hijackers are such fun people. :)
It's my opinion that people should make their game for whatever reason they want. But don't expect a huge audience if your game is not made for a huge audience.
author=WIP link=topic=201.msg2864#msg2864 date=1188253712
It's my opinion that people should make their game for whatever reason they want. But don't expect a huge audience if your game is not made for a huge audience.
Oh, I agree. The problem here is Brick wanted everyone to love his game. RPG-Advocate is met with a collective yawn but he also made his game with a relatively small niche in line.
author=trance2 link=topic=201.msg2863#msg2863 date=1188253680
I would've found it then, since they didn't delete any topics. But, yeah, I remember reading his rant about it. I'm not going to go on a tirade about it, since this is neither the time nor place to do so. Topic hijackers are such fun people. :)
I didn't mean to hijack the topic! Honestyly! It just evolved that way!
Personally, I find the direction the topic took to be interesting.
And, since playing games is about learning *gasp*, designing your game to reward certain styles of play/certain types of players is not a bad thing. It's usually best if you ARE that certain type of player, though.
And, since playing games is about learning *gasp*, designing your game to reward certain styles of play/certain types of players is not a bad thing. It's usually best if you ARE that certain type of player, though.
ps kentona:
About the screenshots
« Sent to: kentona on: August 27, 2007, 02:45:14 PM » Quote Reply Remove
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
about the 4 screenshots that i re-uploaded...
they were actually from my my Seth game, i just accidently uploaded them under the adventures of two guys. so i deleted them and re-uploaded themunder seth
sorry for the trouble
About the screenshots
« Sent to: kentona on: August 27, 2007, 02:45:14 PM » Quote Reply Remove
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
about the 4 screenshots that i re-uploaded...
they were actually from my my Seth game, i just accidently uploaded them under the adventures of two guys. so i deleted them and re-uploaded themunder seth
sorry for the trouble



















