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EQUIPMENT, ABILITIES, AND STATS: HOW TO ADJUST CORRECTLY
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Xenomic
1752
Xenomic
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CloseSo, since I'm in the midst of fixing up some stats on my equipment and whatnot, I thought I'd make a topic concerning this. In most games, we see the stats of weapons and abilities, and the vast majority of the time, they're often balanced with the game at the time they're gotten (though more often than not, they lose any sort of value later on. Very few exceptions to this rule exists off the top of my head). This also includes various spells, such as the basic elemental spells (Fire, Blizzard, Thunder, Water, Cure) which after getting the higher level versions, will never see use ever again for the most part.
So, how do you fellow game developers manage to balance your inventory, equipment, and abilities for your games? Do you take into consideration what everyone's party will be at the time that the abilities/equipment are gotten? Do you base it around the enemies at all? Or do you just make them as you see fit, then readjust later if they're too powerful? Or do you just put them in and not adjust them at all?
For me, I normally just put them in first, and then readjust as see fit while playing through the parts of the games they would be available. If they're too good or too poor, then I try to readjust them more to fit better. This goes for equipment, abilities, as well as enemies (obviously). However, there are times where I am not sure what's the best way to readjust things, such as equipment that gives speed boosts (since speed is the most important stat in 2K3 in general. I don't know how it is in the other games at all). Many of my equipment gives about +10 speed max, sometimes more (this mostly applies to weapons, but some weapons can give more at the cost of less other stats. For instance, the Hunter's Knife gives +50 speed, but that's the only thing it gives. Or a character-specific weapon gives +100 speed, but -500 to Attack, Defense, and Magic), but when combined with other pieces of equipment, I don't know if it's too much or not. Likewise, when it comes to fixing up abilities, most abilities are adjusted fine, with the exception of AoEs for which I have no idea still on how to adjust and make worth using without being too good (before they were too good, now they're not even worth using...I don't know where to strike the balance with them!).
So, how do you fellow game developers manage to balance your inventory, equipment, and abilities for your games? Do you take into consideration what everyone's party will be at the time that the abilities/equipment are gotten? Do you base it around the enemies at all? Or do you just make them as you see fit, then readjust later if they're too powerful? Or do you just put them in and not adjust them at all?
For me, I normally just put them in first, and then readjust as see fit while playing through the parts of the games they would be available. If they're too good or too poor, then I try to readjust them more to fit better. This goes for equipment, abilities, as well as enemies (obviously). However, there are times where I am not sure what's the best way to readjust things, such as equipment that gives speed boosts (since speed is the most important stat in 2K3 in general. I don't know how it is in the other games at all). Many of my equipment gives about +10 speed max, sometimes more (this mostly applies to weapons, but some weapons can give more at the cost of less other stats. For instance, the Hunter's Knife gives +50 speed, but that's the only thing it gives. Or a character-specific weapon gives +100 speed, but -500 to Attack, Defense, and Magic), but when combined with other pieces of equipment, I don't know if it's too much or not. Likewise, when it comes to fixing up abilities, most abilities are adjusted fine, with the exception of AoEs for which I have no idea still on how to adjust and make worth using without being too good (before they were too good, now they're not even worth using...I don't know where to strike the balance with them!).
I wouldn't revolve equipment around Speed so much and leave that to Skills and leveling. You can have equipment that gives speed, just don't make it a focal point.
And if you make AOEs powerful make the MP cost high so it can't be abused. Or make them weaker and have chances at a status effect. Or have AOE attacks take one turn to cast so the player has to decide what might be faster or more effective at the time.
Overall, it's probably more common for people to set up skills, enemies, equipment and then work out the kinks as you go. The same applies to ABS battle systems too
And if you make AOEs powerful make the MP cost high so it can't be abused. Or make them weaker and have chances at a status effect. Or have AOE attacks take one turn to cast so the player has to decide what might be faster or more effective at the time.
Overall, it's probably more common for people to set up skills, enemies, equipment and then work out the kinks as you go. The same applies to ABS battle systems too
Xenomic
1752
Yeah, most of what I see is about +10 speed max. Those that give more than that are generally weapons (specialized usually for specific characters, oftentimes giving penalties in the other stats. Not that those stats matter much...) and accessories (oftentimes being the unique character-only accessories or accessories dedicated mostly to just speed anyways).
Yeah, originally they were just too good for their MP cost. So I reduced their damage (to about 1/4 of their single target variations) without really changing the MP costs too much, but now they're way too weak to use at all without any real benefits to using them. It's kinda a crap shoot heh.
Yeah, originally they were just too good for their MP cost. So I reduced their damage (to about 1/4 of their single target variations) without really changing the MP costs too much, but now they're way too weak to use at all without any real benefits to using them. It's kinda a crap shoot heh.
Gredge109
4151
When I set out on my current project, I wanted to fiddle with the battle system some because I asked myself these similar questions. I am using MV however, and I'm not too sure how 2k3 may work with the math, so not all of this may apply.
What I wound up doing is shrinking all of my stats: instead of the main character starting out with 300 hp, they start with around 24 hp, or something like that. I brought all of the damage and formulas down to be reasonable (for example, my current regular attack formula is along the lines of a.atk * 2 - b.def). I found that this was a comfortable place to begin, and then I started reducing my attributes to make everything reasonable. What followed was hours spent in test battles making sure everything felt right. Now I have what I feel is a good (though slightly over-tuned, and I'm still adjusting it) stat system which allows me the ability to work with every kind of skill and magic type I want in my game.
I like the idea of positive/negative aspects to spells. This spell may be low cost and have low impact, but it may leave a burn on the target that harms them for a couple rounds. This BIG spell is a huge blast on the enemy, and a surefire way to drain your mp.
As for AoE's, I tend to reduce the damage a bit and make them rather high cost. One of my characters is a Hunter that can fire a volley: he has high damage and it hits most all of the enemies (I have it set so some enemies can evade), and his damage is a little less than his regular attack. However the mana cost for this is roughly 1/4th of his total mp.
For equipment, all of the attributes are lower than the default settings (and are calculated in battle differently). So whereas a +1 would be measly damage for a weapon in the default battle system, the +1 is a significant boost when you're working with smaller numbers.
As for damage, one thing I had to keep in mind and watch carefully are my tank characters. They can soak up so much damage even with small numbers: as a result, I wound up adding a variety of different magic attacks to my enemies so the tank, though resilient, isn't always impervious to damage just because they wear heavy armor.
I don't know how helpful these examples are, but when I began to adjust everything, I found myself reworking all of the math of how damage and defenses are calculated.
What I wound up doing is shrinking all of my stats: instead of the main character starting out with 300 hp, they start with around 24 hp, or something like that. I brought all of the damage and formulas down to be reasonable (for example, my current regular attack formula is along the lines of a.atk * 2 - b.def). I found that this was a comfortable place to begin, and then I started reducing my attributes to make everything reasonable. What followed was hours spent in test battles making sure everything felt right. Now I have what I feel is a good (though slightly over-tuned, and I'm still adjusting it) stat system which allows me the ability to work with every kind of skill and magic type I want in my game.
I like the idea of positive/negative aspects to spells. This spell may be low cost and have low impact, but it may leave a burn on the target that harms them for a couple rounds. This BIG spell is a huge blast on the enemy, and a surefire way to drain your mp.
As for AoE's, I tend to reduce the damage a bit and make them rather high cost. One of my characters is a Hunter that can fire a volley: he has high damage and it hits most all of the enemies (I have it set so some enemies can evade), and his damage is a little less than his regular attack. However the mana cost for this is roughly 1/4th of his total mp.
For equipment, all of the attributes are lower than the default settings (and are calculated in battle differently). So whereas a +1 would be measly damage for a weapon in the default battle system, the +1 is a significant boost when you're working with smaller numbers.
As for damage, one thing I had to keep in mind and watch carefully are my tank characters. They can soak up so much damage even with small numbers: as a result, I wound up adding a variety of different magic attacks to my enemies so the tank, though resilient, isn't always impervious to damage just because they wear heavy armor.
I don't know how helpful these examples are, but when I began to adjust everything, I found myself reworking all of the math of how damage and defenses are calculated.
LightningLord2
230
1. If a value is too low, double it.
2. If a value is too high, halve it.
3. If the value overshot into being too low/high, change to halfway between the original and the adjusted value.
This is the most reliable way of balancing numbers, which I recommended in one of my articles.
As for spells, try adding a different side effect to each tier:
1) Decrease the target's resistance to either the spell's element or the opposite element.
2) Inflict a state based on the element.
3) Deal more damage if the element's state is present. Debuffs the caster.
4) Deal a fraction of the damage to each other enemy. Inflict a state based on the element. Stuns the caster.
Just a few examples.
2. If a value is too high, halve it.
3. If the value overshot into being too low/high, change to halfway between the original and the adjusted value.
This is the most reliable way of balancing numbers, which I recommended in one of my articles.
As for spells, try adding a different side effect to each tier:
1) Decrease the target's resistance to either the spell's element or the opposite element.
2) Inflict a state based on the element.
3) Deal more damage if the element's state is present. Debuffs the caster.
4) Deal a fraction of the damage to each other enemy. Inflict a state based on the element. Stuns the caster.
Just a few examples.
AubreyTheBard
1801
I wanted to make equipment stay useful compared to the stats characters get from level growth in my game, so I made them give a percentage multiplier to the character's stats rather than simply adding to them. Of course, that required that I have a completely custom-scripted battle system, but I was already doing that anyway. How well does it work? Well, I really can't say yet, I've barely got a working demo of the game at lowest character levels with enemies and skills that I haven't put a lot of effort into balancing yet. X) If anybody knows of any examples of this being done before, whether successful or not so much, RPG Maker or otherwise, I'd be interested in hearing about them.
Crystalgate
694
Typically, I calculate what values I need in advance. I almost always have to change the HP values after testing, but I can usually nail attack, defense, magic and magic defense at the first try.
This makes testing quick, but the calculating will however take time instead.
This makes testing quick, but the calculating will however take time instead.
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