HOW IMPORTANT IS MAKING ITEMS USEFUL?

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One of the things I intended to do with my adventure game was make items useful. Healing spells in my game take a second or two of time to cast because I wanted to give players a reason to use healing items which work instantly. And auto MP regeneration takes a long time because I wanted players to use MP restoring items in a pinch. Also there are TENT items which full restore at save points.
My new test player refuses to ever use any of these items because he says he never uses items in games ever. Luckily because I continue to lower the difficulty, he has been able to do this. I think the only healing items I've seen him use was the Medicine item to heal the rare status ailments of the game. But because of this mentality of his, I'll watch him wait for long periods of time to auto regen his entire MP bar even though he has accumulated plenty of MP restoring items which could do it instantly. (Also, he has jack tons of in game money he refuses to use on items)
So one of my other game design philosophies is to make sure I'm not wasting players time. And yes technically it's his choice to regen his MP slowly instead of using his items but that made me wonder, should I include an ability later on in the game that lets MP regen even faster? Would it make the game too easy and make items even less important? What are your thoughts?

P.S. I am not talking about Red Nova or Unity this particular play tester is someone I know offline.
Marrend
Guardian of the Description Thread
21806
I think it's a player mentality, because I am exactly like this. As in, if there is a way to heal HP with MP, and a relatively cheap way to replenish MP without using items, you can bet your life I will use that method.

Now that I think on it, a lot of my most recent games probably reflect this. Okiku Star Apprentice? One of her abilities replenish MP. Myriad Cypher and Oracle of Askigaga tie MP restoration to the "Guard" command. Then there's restoring MP in Nakaishi Wars.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
For starters, I make a lot of survival games where using items or anything and everything at your disposal is necessary to win. I design it that way as it works if you're using your items. Otherwise there isn't much you can do as a developer to make your players use the items. It's silly not to use them if you need them. If you can beat the game without using items then I say that needs to change. If that's what you want and are going for.

Also, it's nice to have a playtester but don't base too.many decisions on just one person. If people use the items on top of skills then the game will probably be too easy if you make the skills more powerful. Or they just won't use items if they have better options.
I also like to make a lot of my items only usable outside out battle because then the player will have to manage better or pretty much use them once the battle is over because why not.
In battle items are rarer and they can be used part of a good strategy.

You have to make it useful for your player but don't base your system off of people who horde items or don't use them altogether.
I'm very much the same. I have a too-good-to-use -category in items (which includes almost all items, especially all MP recovery items). I think there is nothing you can do about it. If someone wants to play like this, they will even risk dying to save items.

should I include an ability later on in the game that lets MP regen even faster?

Absolutely. you say don't want to waste players time, so someone who likes regening MP will pick this ability and love it.
I'd really like to agree with InfectionFiles because that was my mentality for many years. But continued feedback from both the games I have on this site and my experiments in Mario Maker seem to indicate to me that players don't really care much about a real challenge they just want an easy simplified experience. My easier/simpler levels in Mario Maker are get way more praise than the more elaborate and difficult ones.

So I'm probably going to side with Marrend and Skjo. Maybe to get the MP regen speed boost I'll make it a really expensive upgrade since that will at the very least make money useful to a player who generally hordes cash. I was also considering a level cap for it so that the player doesn't get it too early in the game.
InfectionFiles
the world ends in whatever my makerscore currently is
4622
People do like to horde their MP recovery items, that's the truth.

An easy experience is usually universal to players. I like to cater to people who want a challenge but it's manageable if you play smart and weigh your options. Again, I loveee survival games because of that. I like having to decide what to use and when and managing water and food or whatever. Look at a game like the early Resident Evils where you pretty much will use everything. There isn't a.point to saving items because you'll just die.

And really just depends what your game is, though :)

You're going the route people can't bitch and complain about lol
author=InfectionFiles
People do like to horde their MP recovery items, that's the truth.

An easy experience is usually universal to players. I like to cater to people who want a challenge but it's manageable if you play smart and weigh your options. Again, I loveee survival games because of that. I like having to decide what to use and when and managing water and food or whatever. Look at a game like the early Resident Evils where you pretty much will use everything. There isn't a.point to saving items because you'll just die.

And really just depends what your game is, though :)

You're going the route people can't bitch and complain about lol


Yep pretty much thats the idea.

Plus I figure that since I want the game to get people interested in Africa, it makes sense to implement things that will give it more mass appeal.
Corfaisus
"It's frustrating because - as much as Corf is otherwise an irredeemable person - his 2k/3 mapping is on point." ~ psy_wombats
7874
This got me to thinking: what about items whose effects are affected by the user's magic stat? Would it be useful to have healing items that become more effective as a user's magic stat increases as would be the case for a healing spell? While it would make a melee character's magical properties matter more (ensuring no characters stats are ever wasted), would it really add anything to the strategy or would it just complicate or confuse the situation?

Would you be more focused on keeping the person with the highest magic stat alive to take advantage of the items? Would you go out of your way to deck out the tank with magical gear just to get the healing benefits? Could this be flipped so that the character with the highest strength gets healing item boosts (think Healing Signet in Guild Wars), creating a secondary class of healers? Would you go a different route and create two categories of healing items that reflect a strength or a magic build, such as HP with strength and MP with magic or vice versa?
author=Corfaisus
This got me to thinking: what about items whose effects are affected by the user's magic stat? Would it be useful to have healing items that become more effective as a user's magic stat increases as would be the case for a healing spell? While it would make a melee character's magical properties matter more (ensuring no characters stats are ever wasted), would it really add anything to the strategy or would it just complicate or confuse the situation?

Would you be more focused on keeping the person with the highest magic stat alive to take advantage of the items? Would you go out of your way to deck out the tank with magical gear just to get the healing benefits? Could this be flipped so that the character with the highest strength gets healing item boosts (think Healing Signet in Guild Wars), creating a secondary class of healers? Would you go a different route and create two categories of healing items that reflect a strength or a magic build, such as HP with strength and MP with magic or vice versa?


Interesting idea. Though my game only has one character since it's an adventure game. But Items in my game do actually restore more if you increase your luck stat. The higher your luck is, the more likely you are to get bonus Life and Magic points when using items.
You increase luck by dancing for specific NPCs in the game.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
The cause of people hoarding items is the designer making it possible to do so. People never know what the next danger will be in the game. They don't know how hard it'll be. Maybe they'll need the items! But they can almost always figure out a way to overcome their current obstacle without the items. So why take the risk?

To change the way players approach this situation, do one of two things, preferably both:
1) Fiercely limit the number of items the player can carry.
2) Make items replenishable in a way that the player can easily predict.

If you do the first thing, it will make it so players will often come to a situation where they think, "I can't carry any more items. So if I find another one ahead, it'll be wasted unless I use one now. Using one up now will definitely benefit me, but hoarding the items is riskier since I don't know what items I'll get from treasure chests and enemy drops in the next few minutes."

If you do the second thing, it will make it so that players will often come to a situation and think "I know that if I use my item now, I'll be able to replenish it soon. There's no risk in using it now."

So one thing adds a risk to hoarding, and the other thing takes away some of the risk of not hoarding. The player will still hold on to their items a lot, because these two situations will both happen intermittently, but they won't hold on to them all the time.

How powerful the items are doesn't really factor into this much at all.
In my view...

If you're spending money on them, they should be useful.

In most of my games Items are useful, but not "essential". Yes, you CAN usually get by with just abilities, but sometimes you go "Man, I need a LOT of healing this turn" or "I need MP restored in combat. Gotta use an item".

I tend to use standard items in games a good bunch, only hoarding the REALLY good stuff and only using it if I'm having an especially hard time with a boss.

author=LockeZ
To change the way players approach this situation, do one of two things, preferably both:
1) Fiercely limit the number of items the player can carry.
2) Make items replenishable in a way that the player can easily predict.


This. JUST THIS. The Estus Solution.

This is why I use my Estus flask when needed in Dark Souls (Although I first rely on a healing spell for times when I need healing out of combat or in a safe spot).

It's also the philosophy behind the Angel Flask I made in Mayhem Maiden. Every checkpoint gives you a few free after-battle-heals, so you don't feel too bad about using them.
author=RedMask
My new test player refuses to ever use any of these items because he says he never uses items in games ever.

If your current tester refuses to do in things in game to help you balance and solve gameplay issues, perhaps you need to find a new tester.

The point of a tester is to find someone who will do everything possible to break your game or find exploits in your systems.

Sounds like he just wants to play for his own benefit in his own comfort zone, and not help you make the game better for everyone. If he's not using the items you put in game, then there is no reason to keep using him.

He may be your friend, but he is doing you no favors in becoming a better game designer.


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