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EVENTED CBS & CMS - 2K3 VS ACE
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JosephSeraph
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CloseHiyaiya!
Why this thread was born:
RM2k3 is possibly getting a big, big update soon -- new features may include referencing picture id by variables, spritesheets, *gasp* animated spritesheets *gasp* referencing sprites in a spritesheet through variables... Lots, lots of neat stuff, some of which I think was never achievable with events in the history of RM (I remember there being a picpointer patch but not spritesheet picpointing for instance)
There might have never been had a better time to create evented systems in 2k3...
...But, while Ace has a lot of event commands missing, and especially creates a lot of lag when executing multiple events or complex events, it also has something 2k3 does not: Script calls.
With a little bit of RGSS, it is possible to create a hybrid evented-scripted battle or menu system on ace that could, in theory, be far simpler and run far better than anything on VXA.
For someone seasoned in making custom systems on 2k3, how feasible is it to switch to Ace and create custom evented systems on it? How hard would it be to learn the RGSS that would allow the Script Call tool to outweigh the functions lost from 2k3?
Some examples of what RGSS could substitute / streamline in evented commands, that comes straight to my head:
- creating menus
One of the things that's the most tedious and easy to screw up, but not particularily hard, on creating custom systems on 2k3, is manipulating things like command lists, item menus, et cetera.
With scripting, it would be possible to render a list of whatever you wish using code, retrieve the info from the selected option and let the event know how to proceed from there. Such would be particularily useful when rendering lists such as skill lists, item lists, etc. which are amongst the most time consuming stuff to render using events, not to mention picture consuming as you'll often need hundreds of pictures for an item menu.
- displaying stats / variables / numbers
Another time consuming but not particularily hard thing to do on RM2k3 is displaying stats and numbers. You have to create several conditional branches, calculate the formula to retrieve each digit of a particular number, use show pictures to show this info -- and keep track of all the crazy picture IDs which is surprisingly easy to screw up. More complex systems can get eeeeeeextremely big in terms of code just with dump conditional branches showing specific pictures if a specific variable out of a few dozen is a specific amount.
Just rendering stuff with a single line of code would probably be possible (and then wiping it out with another)
- manipulating pictures, letters, numbers, windows, bars etc.
Just like you do with pictures to create spiffy fade ins and fade outs, it could probably be more powerful with code (and unvariably the very only way to manipulate a number that was drawn with code for instance)
idk this sounds like it could be fairly clean and awesome to work with, but at the same time i really have nooooo idea of how to achieve any of those things and i wouldn't even think of it were i not wanting to use khas' platformer script lmao
Why this thread was born:
I'm currently working on a sidescroller single character RPG like Helen's Mysterious Castle, Standstill Girl and M.A.G.E.... But we all know sidescrollers are pretty hard to make fluid when using event commands.
So I felt like using Khas Arcthunder's RMVXA sidescroller script which is fantastic! But then I think i'd have a pretty hard time crafting the custom, evented battle and menu systems!
So I felt like using Khas Arcthunder's RMVXA sidescroller script which is fantastic! But then I think i'd have a pretty hard time crafting the custom, evented battle and menu systems!
RM2k3 is possibly getting a big, big update soon -- new features may include referencing picture id by variables, spritesheets, *gasp* animated spritesheets *gasp* referencing sprites in a spritesheet through variables... Lots, lots of neat stuff, some of which I think was never achievable with events in the history of RM (I remember there being a picpointer patch but not spritesheet picpointing for instance)
There might have never been had a better time to create evented systems in 2k3...
...But, while Ace has a lot of event commands missing, and especially creates a lot of lag when executing multiple events or complex events, it also has something 2k3 does not: Script calls.
With a little bit of RGSS, it is possible to create a hybrid evented-scripted battle or menu system on ace that could, in theory, be far simpler and run far better than anything on VXA.
For someone seasoned in making custom systems on 2k3, how feasible is it to switch to Ace and create custom evented systems on it? How hard would it be to learn the RGSS that would allow the Script Call tool to outweigh the functions lost from 2k3?
Some examples of what RGSS could substitute / streamline in evented commands, that comes straight to my head:
- creating menus
One of the things that's the most tedious and easy to screw up, but not particularily hard, on creating custom systems on 2k3, is manipulating things like command lists, item menus, et cetera.
With scripting, it would be possible to render a list of whatever you wish using code, retrieve the info from the selected option and let the event know how to proceed from there. Such would be particularily useful when rendering lists such as skill lists, item lists, etc. which are amongst the most time consuming stuff to render using events, not to mention picture consuming as you'll often need hundreds of pictures for an item menu.
- displaying stats / variables / numbers
Another time consuming but not particularily hard thing to do on RM2k3 is displaying stats and numbers. You have to create several conditional branches, calculate the formula to retrieve each digit of a particular number, use show pictures to show this info -- and keep track of all the crazy picture IDs which is surprisingly easy to screw up. More complex systems can get eeeeeeextremely big in terms of code just with dump conditional branches showing specific pictures if a specific variable out of a few dozen is a specific amount.
Just rendering stuff with a single line of code would probably be possible (and then wiping it out with another)
- manipulating pictures, letters, numbers, windows, bars etc.
Just like you do with pictures to create spiffy fade ins and fade outs, it could probably be more powerful with code (and unvariably the very only way to manipulate a number that was drawn with code for instance)
idk this sounds like it could be fairly clean and awesome to work with, but at the same time i really have nooooo idea of how to achieve any of those things and i wouldn't even think of it were i not wanting to use khas' platformer script lmao
RGSS will be pretty easy to master once you get the hang of it. And it's so much more powerful (I was able to build my own games from scratch with it... you can really do anything). But Cherry's godsend update to RPG Maker 2003 is looking pretty powerful as well...
...As someone who has done a completely evented battle system in RPG Maker 2003, I have to say that, once I FINALLY got the hang of Ruby (thanks to a few people from this very forum), I really liked the sense of freedom it afforded me. I think doing an evented battle system/menu system with event commands and RGSS commands stuffed away in the script somewhere is a great way to not only work, but to get to learn Ruby itself. I started out by hybridizing. You can even set switches with event commands that will then interact with RGSS script. (For example, make a custom version of one of the event commands in the "Interpreter" section, and switch between your custom event command and the original event command with an "if...else" clause in the script that checks for whether that switch in $game_switches has been flipped.)
...As someone who has done a completely evented battle system in RPG Maker 2003, I have to say that, once I FINALLY got the hang of Ruby (thanks to a few people from this very forum), I really liked the sense of freedom it afforded me. I think doing an evented battle system/menu system with event commands and RGSS commands stuffed away in the script somewhere is a great way to not only work, but to get to learn Ruby itself. I started out by hybridizing. You can even set switches with event commands that will then interact with RGSS script. (For example, make a custom version of one of the event commands in the "Interpreter" section, and switch between your custom event command and the original event command with an "if...else" clause in the script that checks for whether that switch in $game_switches has been flipped.)
Ramshackin
1462
I remember feeling so cool and accomplished making custom systems using only events in the older makers. But in terms of productivity, it's awful.
The scripting is one of the best parts of VXA and MV. It's quick once you've done it a few times and have some patterns to work on. Most of the time I add a new menu, it's similar to one I did before, so copy+paste that script and now I'm 70% of the way there.
Plus you can still do all the eventing. Most stuff I do is standard events with a script call or two that simplify what would otherwise be like ~20 event commands.
The scripting is one of the best parts of VXA and MV. It's quick once you've done it a few times and have some patterns to work on. Most of the time I add a new menu, it's similar to one I did before, so copy+paste that script and now I'm 70% of the way there.
Plus you can still do all the eventing. Most stuff I do is standard events with a script call or two that simplify what would otherwise be like ~20 event commands.
Superstroke
4779
author=JosephSeraph
referencing picture id by variables
I needed this yesterday! I was wondering why it wasn't there since you can use pointer variables for pretty much everything else.
Any links for that (supposed) update? I'm curious how that spritesheet would work.
But yea otherwise I think scripting is better for complex CMS / CBS.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I think the javascript API in MV is a lot more elegant than the older RGSS (I only have experience in XP, so maybe it was better in Ace?)
I've always thought of RPG Maker 2003 as more suited to 16 and 8 bit styled games than any software that proceeded it. The reasons for that are in minor technical/graphical details that only obsessive-compulsive purists like myself would care for.
It's a powerful step forward, but without the presence of DynRPG it would be difficult to ask others to give this software a second look.
It's a powerful step forward, but without the presence of DynRPG it would be difficult to ask others to give this software a second look.
author=SuperstrokeThere was a video link posted one or two pages back in the RPG Maker 2003 release thread which demonstrated the new picture features.
Any links for that (supposed) update? I'm curious how that spritesheet would work.
hedge1
862
author=Superstroke
Any links for that (supposed) update? I'm curious how that spritesheet would work.
Direct link: https://rpgmaker.net/forums/topics/17752/?post=774728#post774728
Also, because I'm trying my best to plug these, some utilities that can help with the updates to rm2k3:
Create Sprite Sheets from individual images:
https://rpgmaker.net/engines/rm2k3/utilities/171/
Easily convert text into images, and even edit or change the font of those images on a later date:
https://rpgmaker.net/engines/custom/utilities/78/
(Note that the instructions for the Picture Text Creator are out of date. If you're interested in using it I recommend you download it and just mess around. I'll get proper instructions up some day.)
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