DRAWBACK MECHANICS IN SINGLE PLAYER GAMES
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If we are to talk about some truly classic games, then Nethack might just be a defining example of drawbacks in its design. As you play, you'll find a lot of items (potions, amulets, rings, spellbooks etc.) that are all unidentified, and will stay unidentified unless you come across identify spell somehow. (Well, Wizard/Witch might start with one, but I haven't tried playing as them yet.)
That just creates a lot of tension, because first, any item you get might be blessed (good) or cursed (welds to your body and cannot be taken off unless you get some holy water or unicorn horn, I think). That is obviously punishing even if the item is otherwise innocuous: a crappy dagger welding itself to your hand just stops you from using better weapons; Hermes forbid you get a cursed two-hander like a partisan or a mattock, basically stopping you from doing most things. Armour is even more interesting, regardless of whether or not it's cursed. The most powerful armours are obviously metal ones, and they give a lot of protection, but also force the spellcasting chance way down, making the usage of even healing spells nearly impossible. Thus, the question of whether it's worth taking the better protection of elven/dwarven armour over good spellcasting of leather ones, or whether you should always wait for said elven/dwarven armours or settle for plate if it turns up earlier (which actually has slightly better protection, but has insane weight.)
And while with body armour you can at least trust it to just do its job, gloves, boots, and helmets can all have magical varieties. Even if you consult the wiki regularly, it'll only tell you which ones are regular varieties. The rest is randomised, and can be mildly crappy (gloves of fumbling), mildly useful (visored helmet protects against the extremely rare blinding attacks), game-changing (autocursing Helm of Opposite Alignment), occasionally awesome (Kicking Boots), pretty great (gloves of might, etc.) or hilariously game-ending: my most memorable run in my 3 months of playing was an early one where I bought boots for 6 gold at the shop and thought they would do nothing. Then, my gnome archeologist lady put them on and they were levitating boots! Awesome!, I thought... until it turned out they made bending down to pick up stuff, or even to go down to the next level, completely impossible, and couldn't be taken off, because curse.
The always-magical item categories have even more * fun * associated with them. Amulets are quite simple, as there are only like 8 varieties of them, and they include really cool ones like magic reflection, or life saving (basically an OneUp! that breaks when you should've been killed). Still don't forget to test them for curses first, or you'll get Amulet of Strangulation - guaranteed insta-kill in six turns, unless you are lucky and your god isn't angry with you. (Prayer mechanics are probably another example of a drawback in their own right.) Wands are also nice, as long as youlook up on the wiki figure out the way to instantly identify them through engraving with them (works on like 25/30 of them.) The wand of lightning is a good example of a drawback all on its own: it's really powerful, but the flash will blind you for quite a while afterwards. You can also try breaking any wand when you feel it's about to run out of charges: the explosion might be a lot more useful to you, assuming it doesn't kill you.
You have spellbooks, which might give you a new spell (which you might not be able to use regardless), or might screw you up badly, and which you'll eventually forget unless you reread it. You have potions, ranging from booze and apple juice, through (surprisingly useful) water and all the way to healing/gain level one hand, and acid or polymorph on another. When you normally have no idea what it does, you can still try to drink it, to dip your weapons (or practically anything else) into them, or to throw them at the enemy and see what happens. You can also just carry them around and not bother to do much - until you come across flame/frost breathing enemy whose breath just blows them all up and likely kills you. And you also have rings, which are so random that identifying one through throwing it down the sink, to be lost forever, might actually be worth it at times.
So, yeah, NetHack practically lives and dies by drawbacks and risk/reward management. Download it for free on your phones to check it out, assuming you haven't played it already! It's a pity you soon get so much potentially useful/potentially game-ending stuff no character can lug it all without being reduced to a crawling, easily slayable wreck, and so you get a whole song and dance about creating safe stashes, etc., at which point I kinda lose interest and stop.
That just creates a lot of tension, because first, any item you get might be blessed (good) or cursed (welds to your body and cannot be taken off unless you get some holy water or unicorn horn, I think). That is obviously punishing even if the item is otherwise innocuous: a crappy dagger welding itself to your hand just stops you from using better weapons; Hermes forbid you get a cursed two-hander like a partisan or a mattock, basically stopping you from doing most things. Armour is even more interesting, regardless of whether or not it's cursed. The most powerful armours are obviously metal ones, and they give a lot of protection, but also force the spellcasting chance way down, making the usage of even healing spells nearly impossible. Thus, the question of whether it's worth taking the better protection of elven/dwarven armour over good spellcasting of leather ones, or whether you should always wait for said elven/dwarven armours or settle for plate if it turns up earlier (which actually has slightly better protection, but has insane weight.)
And while with body armour you can at least trust it to just do its job, gloves, boots, and helmets can all have magical varieties. Even if you consult the wiki regularly, it'll only tell you which ones are regular varieties. The rest is randomised, and can be mildly crappy (gloves of fumbling), mildly useful (visored helmet protects against the extremely rare blinding attacks), game-changing (autocursing Helm of Opposite Alignment), occasionally awesome (Kicking Boots), pretty great (gloves of might, etc.) or hilariously game-ending: my most memorable run in my 3 months of playing was an early one where I bought boots for 6 gold at the shop and thought they would do nothing. Then, my gnome archeologist lady put them on and they were levitating boots! Awesome!, I thought... until it turned out they made bending down to pick up stuff, or even to go down to the next level, completely impossible, and couldn't be taken off, because curse.
The always-magical item categories have even more * fun * associated with them. Amulets are quite simple, as there are only like 8 varieties of them, and they include really cool ones like magic reflection, or life saving (basically an OneUp! that breaks when you should've been killed). Still don't forget to test them for curses first, or you'll get Amulet of Strangulation - guaranteed insta-kill in six turns, unless you are lucky and your god isn't angry with you. (Prayer mechanics are probably another example of a drawback in their own right.) Wands are also nice, as long as you
You have spellbooks, which might give you a new spell (which you might not be able to use regardless), or might screw you up badly, and which you'll eventually forget unless you reread it. You have potions, ranging from booze and apple juice, through (surprisingly useful) water and all the way to healing/gain level one hand, and acid or polymorph on another. When you normally have no idea what it does, you can still try to drink it, to dip your weapons (or practically anything else) into them, or to throw them at the enemy and see what happens. You can also just carry them around and not bother to do much - until you come across flame/frost breathing enemy whose breath just blows them all up and likely kills you. And you also have rings, which are so random that identifying one through throwing it down the sink, to be lost forever, might actually be worth it at times.
So, yeah, NetHack practically lives and dies by drawbacks and risk/reward management. Download it for free on your phones to check it out, assuming you haven't played it already! It's a pity you soon get so much potentially useful/potentially game-ending stuff no character can lug it all without being reduced to a crawling, easily slayable wreck, and so you get a whole song and dance about creating safe stashes, etc., at which point I kinda lose interest and stop.
author=NTC3
That just creates a lot of tension, because first, any item you get might be blessed (good) or cursed (welds to your body and cannot be taken off unless you get some holy water or unicorn horn, I think). That is obviously punishing even if the item is otherwise innocuous
Yeah I never got why game devs do the whole cursed equipment thing. That just punishes experimentation which isn't fun. And I think games should tell the player what an item does though some amount of mystery is alright.
Anyway I got a poor man's phone so I couldn't play that game but it was interesting to read your thoughts on it.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Nethack is older than Windows, I promise your system can handle it.
author=RedMaskauthor=NTC3Yeah I never got why game devs do the whole cursed equipment thing. That just punishes experimentation which isn't fun. And I think games should tell the player what an item does though some amount of mystery is alright.
That just creates a lot of tension, because first, any item you get might be blessed (good) or cursed (welds to your body and cannot be taken off unless you get some holy water or unicorn horn, I think). That is obviously punishing even if the item is otherwise innocuous
Anyway I got a poor man's phone so I couldn't play that game but it was interesting to read your thoughts on it.
Well, the whole point of Nethack is that the reward your character is chasing is so great - the Amulet of Yendor, which will literally turn you into an fully immortal demigod once delivered to your god - that the challenge should correspond to that. It's exactly because you are still a wretch who is so utterly vulnerable throughout the game that beating it is so rewarding (for the people who basically turned it into a lifestyle to win.) In particular, I think cursed equipment emerged after the original creator first added blessed weapons/items, since it's a common thing in fantasy, and then decided they needed to be counterbalanced by curses. (Counterbalancing is kind of the game's thing: it even includes rust monsters and disenchanters, which deal no damage and whose sole purpose is to weaken your equipment by denying them those positive properties.)
Anyway, identifying cursed stuff is not that difficult: altars have a 100% success rate at showing what's blessed and what's cursed (and you'll usually find one in the first 3-5 levels, perhaps even before going to Minetown, which always has one.) Otherwise, you drop that thing on the ground, and try to make your dog/cat/horse (you'll always have at least one of the three with you at the start, and they can stick around for quite a while when taken care of) walk over it. If they go through it (especially if they pick it up), then it's fine. If they seem to go anywhere but there, it's probably cursed. If you managed to get "|pet| moves only reluctantly" message, then it's definitely cursed. Some stuff being cursed also means you can just leave some drops be, and not worry about them being picked up (as then they'll weld to that enemy creature instead.)
author=LockeZ
Nethack is older than Windows, I promise your system can handle it.
Well, I mainly play the mobile port (iNethack2, I think it's called), both because I kinda like it being on the move, and because the touch interface is often a lot more convenient. You just tap to move in any direction, or tap inventory/actions/# commands and quickly get a list of all those to choose from. Probably the one thing that could persuade me to play on PC is if there was a mod making Minetown more like a normal town, but that doesn't seem to be the case. I accept pretty much all the other annoying things in the game because they add to its unforgiving atmosphere. The way a supposed town still has a ton of hostile monsters roaming whenever they like and how they like (I once got killed by a giant there, of all things, and recently by a mumakil) with the Town Watch doing nothing and only being interested in killing you if you break any of their semi-realistic rules just actively counters it. I suppose I wouldn't mind the social side of things to be more developed in general (like how being a gnome only means they won't attack you on sight and still doesn't even get a different remark from them.) Make the game you wish to see in the world, right?














