[POLL] DOES RPG MAKER NET HAVE LOW ENGAGEMENT RATE?

Poll

Does RPG Maker net have a lower than average engagement rate for the submissions? - Results

Yes
13
52%
No
12
48%

Posts

author=halibabica
In just 9 cases? That's not statistically sound by any standard. I hope the video has more compelling evidence to back up those numbers.

Making a demo in an RM game shouldn't be that complicated, though. You make a copy of the game, pick a chunk of it that best showcases the gameplay, place the start position and set up the hero party about how they'd be at that point. Pick a spot where the demo ends, delete warps into and out of the chunk, and voila.

Even at that, there's no excuse not to have a video showcasing how the game plays. It's more important for commercial titles because it's like I've told you before: you have to SHOW the player why the game is worth their time and money. Emphasis on SHOW.

You need to watch the video.

I do show how the game plays, what are you talking about?


It's in the description and media page both.

EDIT: I didn't know I can link other people's Let's plays and not my own, is that allowed?
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16948
As long as you ask their permission, it's usually not a problem.

I'm at work and YouTube videos are prevented from loading here, so I can't watch. Still, you should clean up your game profile as much as you can. Presentation is everything.

Man, now I want to criticize things.
ESBY
extreme disappointment
1238
In addition to the presentation and marketing issues already brought up, I think one of the main things going against you is your lack of activity.

Regarding the presentation - I agree with halibabica; your game just doesn't stand out here and there's actually several aspects of it that's harming it as a commercial product. The main image you've chosen is a really poor choice considering this is usually the first thing site members see and you've chosen a really bland and unappealing map - it's especially strange as you have a really neat piece of artwork at the top of your game's profile which would be perfect. Your screenshots in general need to be more enticing and appealing. One of the other main sticking points is the lack of any CSS customization which for a commercial game I'd considered a must; compare your profile to Ara Fell's or even the dozens of free games that make the effort and it becomes really obvious.

The other point being your activity; In the two years of being here you've only made a handful of posts, all of which centre on your own game. If you don't engage with the community and leave feedback and support for other devs then why do you expect for them to do so for you? The reason unity's games get traffic here is because she's active and helpful in providing feedback, testing and reviews. So learn from unity - if you want others to help you, start by helping others.

The "no demo yet wanting reviews" is another issue that sticks out to me as there seems to be no mentions of review copies in any of your review requests. Why should anybody take time to review your game as a favour to you when it seems like you expect it to come at their expense.

In short if you're game is commercial then you need to treat it as such; your presentation, marketing & community engagement all need to be on point and please for the love of god get some review copies available if you're so against providing a demo.
KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1217
author=Tuomo_L
Why can't you just buy it? It's not that expensive, it really isn't with all the work I've put into it. I put it on sale too every now and then, it was on sale on the anime weekend and was 2,99$.

I mean absolutely no offense when I say this, but seeing the seller of a given merchandise say that doesn't come off that well for prospective players and customers. Having a price tag is fine, but you need to justify that purchase beyond saying "it's cheap!". That lack of justification, or in other words marketing, is what appears to be the problem judging from Halibabica's posts.

Seriously, how many times has a demo made you go "WHOA I want to buy this game" instead of "I don't want to buy this game"?

Quite a few times actually. Nowadays with Let's Plays and video reviews from trustworthy sources like TotalBiscuit being the norm there is much less practicality for demos, but back in the good old days I played demos of games like Age of Empires II and absolutely craved for the full thing.

In the absence of the industry doing the marketing for you, a demo is in my opinion one of the best ways to let potential customers see if they can justify that purchase.
author=ESBY
In addition to the presentation and marketing issues already brought up, I think one of the main things going against you is your lack of activity.

Regarding the presentation I agree with halibabica; your game just doesn't stand out here and there's actually several aspects of it that's harming it as a commercial product. The main image you've chosen is a really poor choice considering this is usually the first thing site members see and you've chosen a really bland and unappealing map - it's especially strange as you have a really neat piece of artwork the top of your game's profile which would be perfect. Your screenshots in general need to be more enticing and appealing. One of the other main sticking points is the lack of any CSS customization which for a commercial game I'd considered a must; compare your profile to Ara Fell's or even the dozens of free games that make the effort and it becomes really obvious

I have no idea what CSS customizations are or how to make them. You can compare my game to Ara Fell all you want (please do! play my game and do compare!! I'd love that!!) but I don't even know how the CSS customizations work nor is there documentation about it. How can it be a must?

author=KingArthur
author=Tuomo_L
Why can't you just buy it? It's not that expensive, it really isn't with all the work I've put into it. I put it on sale too every now and then, it was on sale on the anime weekend and was 2,99$.
I mean absolutely no offense when I say this, but seeing the seller of a given merchandise say that doesn't come off that well for prospective players and customers. Having a price tag is fine, but you need to justify that purchase beyond saying "it's cheap!". That lack of justification, or in other words marketing, is what appears to be the problem judging from Halibabica's posts.

No, the price tag is justified by the quality of content. A lot of time and effort has been put to this game and I paid a lot to the voice actress, the animators, spriters, etc.
All I want is a fair chance, you know?

Seriously, how many times has a demo made you go "WHOA I want to buy this game" instead of "I don't want to buy this game"?
Quite a few times actually. Nowadays with Let's Plays and video reviews from trustworthy sources like TotalBiscuit being the norm there is much less practicality for demos, but back in the good old days I played demos of games like Age of Empires II and absolutely craved for the full thing.

In the absence of the industry doing the marketing for you, a demo is in my opinion one of the best ways to let potential customers see if they can justify that purchase.

Not true. Did you watch the Demo Daze video?
KingArthur
( ̄▽ ̄)ノ De-facto operator of the unofficial RMN IRC channel.
1217
CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets, basically it's what gives webpages all its nice colors, pictures, fonts, and other such stuff. RMN lets you write your own CSS for your game pages to better present your game.
author=KingArthur
CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets, basically it's what gives webpages all its nice colors, pictures, fonts, and other such stuff. RMN lets you write your own CSS for your game pages to better present your game.


I don't have a custom style though. I mean, I guess if I could make it look like the game's website that'd be swell but I don't think that's possible?

https://www.saveyourmothers.life/
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=Tuomo_L
No, the price tag is justified by the quality of content. A lot of time and effort has been put to this game and I paid a lot to the voice actress, the animators, spriters, etc.


Time and effort, unfortunately, don't automatically equate to quality. If they did, the best games would unequivocally be the ones with the most effort put in, which would translate to the ones where the most money was spent on hiring people to put in the time and effort.

Which just isn't the case. Expensive games can flop. Indie games made by a single person can win the hearts of many. I know you want your time and effort to be meaningful, but you can't expect that alone to mean that you deserve success. It takes much more than that.
author=unity
author=Tuomo_L
No, the price tag is justified by the quality of content. A lot of time and effort has been put to this game and I paid a lot to the voice actress, the animators, spriters, etc.
Time and effort, unfortunately, don't automatically equate to quality. If they did, the best games would unequivocally be the ones with the most effort put in, which would translate to the ones where the most money was spent on hiring people to put in the time and effort.

Which just isn't the case. Expensive games can flop. Indie games made by a single person can win the hearts of many. I know you want your time and effort to be meaningful, but you can't expect that alone to mean that you deserve success. It takes much more than that.


I never said I deserved successs, I just didn't want it to be completely ignored like it had been. I spoke out when it really began to trouble me to the point I began to question if I want to release my future games here.


The price also helps pay the rent. You guys may not realize this but this is actually literally my livelihood as a full time job. That's why I take it so seriously, because failure would literally affect me on more than just emotional level.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16948
from Tuomo_L
No, the price tag is justified by the quality of content.

And prospective players don't know what the quality is like until they've already given you money. You know what's in the game, everyone else has no clue. You have to show how it's appealing so the player knows why it's worth the price.

If you want, I could look over your game description and offer my thoughts on how you could touch it up.
author=halibabica
from Tuomo_L
No, the price tag is justified by the quality of content.
And prospective players don't know what the quality is like until they've already given you money. You know what's in the game, everyone else has no clue. You have to show how it's appealing so the player knows why it's worth the price.

If you want, I could look over your game description and offer my thoughts on how you could touch it up.

Can you please, English is my third language. It's very hard to try and get past my tip of the tongue syndrome at times.

Another reason why I don't think demos are needed is because Steam has refunds. If you like it, you can just keep the game but if you don't think it's worth your money, you can always just refund it and thus have had experienced the full game. There's absolutely nothing at risk when refunds are a thing.
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
For the CSS, you could paste this into the CSS box on your Manage Game page:

#body { background: url("[url]http://YOURBACKGROUNDIMAGE[/url]") repeat !important; }


Replace "http://YOURBACKGROUNDIMAGE" with the URL of your background image (You can upload it to your locker here if you don't want it to grab it directly off your site) and that should give you a custom background! ^_^ (Anyone better at CSS, please correct me if there's a better way of doing this)
I had to watch the demo daze video because you cited it over and over (despite being at work with no sound.) and I think your game's problem is not really all that related to the the demo video.

The problem is more a kind of obscurity. Now apparently there are let's plays of it and I wouldn't doubt let's plays do just as much damage as demos when looking at it from the perspective of the video you posted.

The thing is that you've basically scrubbed your profile of all of your old games. Within the tiny rpgmaker community there would probably be more people interested in your commercial games if they realized what older games you have made. (I know your situation is a bit of a special case but even so, sharing through weblogs the progression of past games could work wonders when it comes to promotion)

There's only extreme edge cases where the work stands on its own.
author=Shinan
I had to watch the demo daze video because you cited it over and over (despite being at work with no sound.) and I think your game's problem is not really all that related to the the demo video.

The problem is more a kind of obscurity. Now apparently there are let's plays of it and I wouldn't doubt let's plays do just as much damage as demos when looking at it from the perspective of the video you posted.

The thing is that you've basically scrubbed your profile of all of your old games. Within the tiny rpgmaker community there would probably be more people interested in your commercial games if they realized what older games you have made. (I know your situation is a bit of a special case but even so, sharing through weblogs the progression of past games could work wonders when it comes to promotion)

There's only extreme edge cases where the work stands on its own.

Ah, the reason I don't have the old games is because they were technically done with the old RPG Maker 2000 before it was legally translated and released and I don't think I should attach my company's name to something like that, especially since most of the assets wouldn't be usable. (With people who made them missing for years, no clear terms or outright rips) Plus a lot of stuff I just don't generally like from the old games, over the years I've become so much better that the old games look really well, crappy in comparision.
I don't mean that you need to re-release the old games. It's more about sharing the development stories (and screenshots and whatnots) of the old games to build hype for new games. Even James Cameron directed Piranha 2 once and it's a lot of fun to see where one started.
There's really no shame in keeping old stuff up, or sharing old games. Most of my old games are still on here, including one that has straight-up rips. It's not like anyone's gonna go after you for your old stuff (unless you're like, selling it).

We all have our own Radiation Halloween Hack somewhere. No reason to sweep it under a rug when you can make a great retrospective out of it.
author=SgtMettool
There's really no shame in keeping old stuff up, or sharing old games. Most of my old games are still on here, including one that has straight-up rips. It's not like anyone's gonna go after you for your old stuff (unless you're like, selling it).

We all have our own Radiation Halloween Hack somewhere. No reason to sweep it under a rug when you can make a great retrospective out of it.


How about comparisions from the old vs new? I did that thing with Save Your Mother



Speaking of which I tried to put background image but it is appearing as black instead of the image.
unity
You're magical to me.
12540
author=Tuomo_L
Speaking of which I tried to put background image but it is appearing as black instead of the image.


Huh. Not sure why that's happening.

Can anyone who knows more about CSS help out with that? Did I mess up in the code I gave?
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
16948
from Tuomo_L
English is my third language. It's very hard to try and get past my tip of the tongue syndrome at times.

It is? You do a lot better with it than most. That's actually pretty impressive!

{hali's thoughts are in bold}
from the gamepage
BUY IT NOW FOR ONLY 3,99$!!! {Jesus Christ the price tag is the FIRST THING}

{BIG IMAGE} {good looking picture, but takes up tons of space}

{LINK TO STEAM STORE} {offsite link, disinclined to click}

{POPULARITY BANNER} {this thing flip-flops constantly and is always in the thousands. Impressive if you think about it, but not a good at-a-glance statistic}

Abstract: "Save your Mother" is the final version of a highly successful RPG Maker game; originally created within one month for the "Quest for Fun" contest. The original version won the first place and was downloaded by 39288 {memorized to the last digit, eh?} people before the download was removed at the end of the contest. This new version improves on every single aspect of the game, including a rework of many key components in preparation for the game's commercial debut, but still staying true to the charming spirit of the original game. {lots of words saying improvements were made with few specifics} Nearly three years of work and love has went to making the game as lovable as humanly possible!
Genre: Fantasy
Engine: RPG Maker VX Ace

Gameplay {can't even see this trailer without scrolling}

{LAUNCH TRAILER} {another block of space consumed. Trailer != gameplay in my brain}

{no description of how the game plays? Video only?}

Story

Alice Andersson, a world-renowned scholar, faces a dilemma of grand proportions when her mother falls gravely ill. No traditional cures have been able to save her; not even the most unconventional methods have worked! Join her as she discovers the legend about the Elohim Cube, {generic Maguffin} a mystical artifact that might be their only hope. Long lost to the sands of time, the Cube is said to possess incredible healing powers. {expounding on Maguffin} Over the ages, many have attempted to retrieve the cube, but to no avail. All were foiled by the long and arduous path that leads to the cube, and in turn, salvation. Will you be able to unravel the mysteries of the Elohim Cube?

Setting
The game takes place in the same Megaverse as all my other projects, as such there is a rich and robust world to build with the mythos of over 15 years of game making. The timeline for the game takes place about 500 years in the New World after the Old World was destroyed by the War of Gods, if anyone is interested or well versed in my mythos. {not familiar with your mythos, you have no other games here; this part tells me nothing}

Characters

There are quite several colorful characters in the game, here are just few important ones.

Alice {nice artwork, but it's taking up MORE SPACE}

Alice is the main character of the game, as well as the avatar the player controls throughout the game. She is a renowed scholar nicknamed "Silver Scholar" due to the coloring of her hair. She uses her knowledge and skills to find out about the legend of Elohim Cube as well as making use of it in solving the various tasks that wait inside.

Jenna {this picture shows twice???}

Jenna is the rival you meet early into the game. She wants to obtain the cube as well for her own sake, though she wishes to sell the cube and earn a fortune from it. Jenna is unlike Alice, very streetsmarts girl and doesn't shy away from using dirty tactics. She and Alice are against each other but for no personal reason but rather them both having a common goal.

Elisa.jpg {of the .jpg clan, of course}

Elisa is the mother of Alice who has grown ill. Alice knows that nothing can cure her mother but the Elohim Cube, she has already tried everything but no ailment has worked, not even out of ordinary cures. The game ends if she dies.

Features {how far did we just scroll to see the game's FEATURES?!}

Save Your Mother! is a turn-based RPG with puzzle elements. While this combination may seem all too familiar, the fast-paced combat scenes and intricate characters set this game apart. {uhuh}
Rapid combat with epic special moves! {uhuh}
Hand painted cutscene art and character with a variety of emotions, blinking and mouth movement complements the intense and emotional plot. {oh cool}
The inspiring but eerie soundtrack will evoke a variety of emotions from fear to happiness {oh will it?} and will set the stage for intense battles and emotional story scenes. {uhuh}
Unlock the special "hardcore" mode to add challenges and replay value! {uhuh}
Steam achievements and Trading Cards are included, so happy collecting! {uhh, that all sounds very generic. Really non-plussed}

Praise for "Save Your Mother"

JukanHirokutora {who?} says:
"Definitely one of the best RPG maker games I played!" {could this be more generic?}

Misami-Chan says:
"This game is outstanding!"

thatbennyguy says:
"I really enjoyed your game "Save Your Mother". It was a joy to play, and it really did deserve first place. Hope you're using the prize money wisely!"

Artoken says:
"I just played it and like it! I didn't feel the time running by xD, nice work!" {IGN 10/10}


First problem, it's way too long. The artwork and videos extend the page by several screens. You have to scroll really far just to get anywhere. You may not have any comments simply because the bottom of the page is so far down!

Game pages have compartments for this reason. Artwork can go in the screenshots. Character art and descriptions can be made into a custom page. Gameplay vids can go on media pages, which you can link to from the description. The Features should be at the TOP as these are the things that distinguish your game. The price should be at the BOTTOM after the player already has some incentive to check it out. Also, the description of the features doesn't do them much justice. They all sound so standard issue; these are things I would expect from any RPG that takes itself seriously. Evaluate what makes your game stand out and cater the descriptions to that. Custom artwork? Common. Voice acting? That's more like it! Nowhere on here did you mention this game has voice acting!

Your description of the setting is basically: "well, it's just like all the rest of my world that I spent 15 years building." That doesn't tell us anything! You need real details to sell that concept. What's the time period like? Is there much technology? Do people rely on magic for everything? What's the political climate? If your world is as robust as you say, you can at least spare some real details. And that praise section? It's nice that some internet randos enjoyed your game, but unless it's a big name that's widely recognized, these quotes carry no weight. This part's so bland, you'd be better off without it.

I hope this doesn't come across as too mean, but this game description is practically working against itself. It should be concise, informative, and easy to read. It is currently none of those things.
Not memorized, I took a screenshot of the downloada numbers before removal, haha. I'd hate to rely on just my pure memory for something that important! As for improvements, pretty much every single area but I thought listing every single thing would be very reduntant. (This game is longer, has more stuff, more characters, more gameplay and more everything)

I'll do these changes, thanks from your feedback.

I wish IGN would review my game but I can't find a way to contact them. Many of the publications aren't exactly responding to my mails or calls because it's RPG Maker. That's why the comments in the praise come from real players, not famous critics.