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Posts
Natook
1000
Natook
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CloseFeld, I honestly don't see the problems that you're seeing all the time. You come up with multitudes of topics about how we need to improve our community by adding in all this stuff to attract other people and how we need to be more active. This is still a rather small community with an even smaller amount of people who actually post, it's going to be a little slow some days and it's going to not have every type of game known to man kind. People will come and it will grow, don't be so worried about RMN :P
Realize this: the site's success is not at all determined by the number of posts. I would say it's the quality and variety of games that are on the site.
author=Natook link=topic=2292.msg53094#msg53094 date=1230702758
Feld, I honestly don't see the problems that you're seeing all the time. You come up with multitudes of topics about how we need to improve our community by adding in all this stuff to attract other people and how we need to be more active. This is still a rather small community with an even smaller amount of people who actually post, it's going to be a little slow some days and it's going to not have every type of game known to man kind. People will come and it will grow, don't be so worried about RMN :P
Hey dawg, a willingness to improve the community doesn't mean I see 'problems all the time'.
Feld, I honestly don't see the problems that you're seeing all the time. You come up with multitudes of topics about how we need to improve our community by adding in all this stuff to attract other people and how we need to be more active. This is still a rather small community with an even smaller amount of people who actually post, it's going to be a little slow some days and it's going to not have every type of game known to man kind. People will come and it will grow, don't be so worried about RMN
I disagree. I worry about the size and activity level of the site and forums too, although I'm not as vocal about it as Feld. Possibly because this is my "last refuge on the interwebs" and the only channel through which my games can reach the masses? I don't know. I don't think he's making things up. I mean, just look at your bolded text.
It would be nice to fix/change that statement, but I don't know if it's even possible.
author=WIP link=topic=2292.msg53098#msg53098 date=1230703812
Realize this: the site's success is not at all determined by the number of posts. I would say it's the quality and variety of games that are on the site.
I don't mean to sound glib, but this is almost somewhat... naive. Not a word I usually associate with you. In a perfect world what you said would be perfectly true and all those diverse games of quality would get the attention they deserve. But ultimately, community activity level matters A LOT because without that, you have a site with 20,000 games that no one is playing or discussing.
People are more likely to hang out a place where stuff is crackling, popping, sizzling, and going on etcetera, long enough to check out those games. And developers will be more interested in places that their games get the most feedback.
Posts mean jack, Max. Want to know why? This site has had 52,000 forum posts.
It has had over 100,000 game downloads just this year. If you want your game to reach the masses, you found your channel. People posting bullshit feedback like "lol not enough lighting effects" does not properly measure a community.
So what is more important: shitty posts about questions you have always wanted to ask people, or actually having people play your game?
It has had over 100,000 game downloads just this year. If you want your game to reach the masses, you found your channel. People posting bullshit feedback like "lol not enough lighting effects" does not properly measure a community.
So what is more important: shitty posts about questions you have always wanted to ask people, or actually having people play your game?
WIP, that argument is assuming that community discussion is shitty by default, and that's not fair. Proactive, constructive, and enjoyable community discussion that draws people together and people playing games and using a site aren't mutually exclusive.
It might be, yes. But even then, words mean nothing when you don't have anything to back it up.
RMN has the download numbers to back up its success. There are complaints people don't post enough on the forum. That is not a problem in my eyes. I am not saying it isn't good to have people discuss. I enjoy the RMN forums quite a bit.
How do people in the community truly measure success of their game? Is it feedback? A bunch of people circlejerking about their game? Or the fact that people play it and enjoy it?
Can't people just be happy that somebody downloaded their game and loved it? I thought that was the purpose of making a game, but what do I know.
One thing is for sure: RMN3 is going to be pretty amazing to watch how people react.
RMN has the download numbers to back up its success. There are complaints people don't post enough on the forum. That is not a problem in my eyes. I am not saying it isn't good to have people discuss. I enjoy the RMN forums quite a bit.
How do people in the community truly measure success of their game? Is it feedback? A bunch of people circlejerking about their game? Or the fact that people play it and enjoy it?
Can't people just be happy that somebody downloaded their game and loved it? I thought that was the purpose of making a game, but what do I know.
One thing is for sure: RMN3 is going to be pretty amazing to watch how people react.
How do people in the community truly measure success of their game? Is it feedback? A bunch of people circlejerking about their game? Or the fact that people play it and enjoy it?
Good question. It depends on the person. I'd say it should be both. Yes, everyone wants their game to be played and enjoyed, but people also want their game (and other games, not just their own) to be discussed.
There's a lot of joy in discussing what you like with other people, for example, I have a great love of the game Xenogears. Back in the day, the Xenogears forum on Gamefaqs was my favorite stomping ground because like minded people got together and discussed their favorite characters, new strategies, debates on nuances on the plot, and so on. It's not just games either, people do it with movies, sports, and anything else. I hardly think it's a bunch of circlejerking, it's just discussing on shared interests.
And even beyond that, I know this is a gamemaking forum, but to me, the community, as in the actual people are just as important. The closer I get to people in a community, I care about more than just whatever game they made. I get closer to them as people, and I enjoy discussing our lives, going ons, favorite activities, and even becoming friends with them. I know this is a dangerous thing to say, but the community and the people itself to me are more important than the subject and focus of the community itself.
What if one day harmonic decided to stop making games? Will I still not be his friend? Is he no longer part of the community? No, because to me, gamemaking is what draws us together and it's what we're here for, but community discussion and attractiveness is what keeps us here and invites many more people in.
Natook
1000
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2292.msg53144#msg53144 date=1230749909
WIP, that argument is assuming that community discussion is shitty by default, and that's not fair. Proactive, constructive, and enjoyable community discussion that draws people together and people playing games and using a site aren't mutually exclusive.
Well considering the fact that there's only one topic space for game discussion, among seven altogether, there's not a lot of the forums even devoted to the game making process. The forums is just people talking about random crap and when they decide to, discuss their game a bit, then lurk around the moronic forums again. You talk as if the forums as a whole is all about game-making, which is contradicting your previous topics trying to persuade people to stop posting in the moronics. So really, WIP is right.
Well considering the fact that there's only one topic space for game discussion, among seven altogether, there's not a lot of the forums even devoted to the game making process. The forums is just people talking about random crap and when they decide to, discuss their game a bit, then lurk around the moronic forums again.
I take it you've never been to a forum where "Proactive, constructive, and enjoyable community discussion" ever applied or occured?
You talk as if the forums as a whole is all about game-making,
No, that is the opposite of what I just said.
Natook
1000
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2292.msg53151#msg53151 date=1230752459Well considering the fact that there's only one topic space for game discussion, among seven altogether, there's not a lot of the forums even devoted to the game making process. The forums is just people talking about random crap and when they decide to, discuss their game a bit, then lurk around the moronic forums again.
I take it you've never been to a forum where "Proactive, constructive, and enjoyable community discussion" ever applied or occured?You talk as if the forums as a whole is all about game-making,
No, that is the opposite of what I just said.
I think RMN is very good at having intelligent community discussion, which is why I don't see the problems in people posting in the moronics more because whenever they post in anything else their posts generally hit all the spots needed for feedback or discussion. 1 great post is better than 1000 crappy posts, so when you get that great post out you can let crappy posts slide. I don't think quantity is an issue, whether they are good posts or not considering you only need a few people to tell you things that are good or bad, rather than a lot of people saying the exact same thing. Nevertheless people are still joining RMN and people are still telling others to join here, as seen in plenty of introduction posts so really it's just a matter of time to even get quantity. RMN may be slow at growing, but it does grow. I've noticed that more users are online rather than guests as well.
I think RMN is very good at having intelligent community discussion, which is why I don't see the problems in people posting in the moronics more because whenever they post in anything else their posts generally hit all the spots needed for feedback or discussion. 1 great post is better than 1000 crappy posts, so when you get that great post out you can let crappy posts slide.
Not that crappy posts are a mortal sin or something, but I really don't like them at all and even 1 great post is better than an entire 10 years worth of crappy posts. There shouldn't be a mindset that goes 'Being a complete retard isn't so bad because I do say one semi intelligent thing every 10 years.'
Now, I don't have a huge problem with the Moronic board, and I love being able to goof around occasionally and have fun, but the problem is when there's more stupid things going on than intelligent things.
I don't think quantity is an issue, whether they are good posts or not considering you only need a few people to tell you things that are good or bad, rather than a lot of people saying the exact same thing.
Which is why good communities have several intelligent people with varying personalities sharing their different and sometimes wildly different, but intelligent opinions. Intelligent, meaningful discussion isn't as black and white as 'good or bad.'
Nevertheless people are still joining RMN and people are still telling others to join here, as seen in plenty of introduction posts so really it's just a matter of time to even get quantity. RMN may be slow at growing, but it does grow. I've noticed that more users are online rather than guests as well.
Although in my personal opinion the forums aren't as active as I like, and people could post more and get involved instead of waiting around the next guy to post (which happens a lot), I can't say I'm not happy with how RMN is growing. It is, it's growing by the day and breaking its own records daily, and there IS more to a site than it's community/forums what have you. The site is doing excellent. I do admit I can be overzealous with things like these but I also believe there's always room for improvement, and if had to say we're lacking anything or have a weakest link, I'd say it would our forums and how active the community is.
WIP is it even theoretically possible for you to have a disagreement with someone without being abrasive? :)
Without feedback, how does one know that someone downloaded their game and loved it rather than, say, downloaded it and never played it or downloaded it and quit after one frustrating sequence? In the last case, in particular, I'd REALLY like the feedback so I know what to change.
Getting crucial intelligence to fix your game is more important and desirable than quote unquote "circlejerking", a rare phenomenon far more common in the minds of a few people than in actual fact.
That said? I'd much rather work on my game than read these forums (I wish I did the former more often and the latter less often!) and I'd much rather get 20 more downloads than 1 more post. Maybe RMN3 will be better for this!
I think WIP's argument boils down to, the site is more important than the forums. Which isn't true in RMNnow but might be true in RMN3. It all depends how much interactivity and functionality is added to the site in its next edition.
How do people in the community truly measure success of their game? Is it feedback? A bunch of people circlejerking about their game? Or the fact that people play it and enjoy it?
Can't people just be happy that somebody downloaded their game and loved it? I thought that was the purpose of making a game, but what do I know.
Without feedback, how does one know that someone downloaded their game and loved it rather than, say, downloaded it and never played it or downloaded it and quit after one frustrating sequence? In the last case, in particular, I'd REALLY like the feedback so I know what to change.
Getting crucial intelligence to fix your game is more important and desirable than quote unquote "circlejerking", a rare phenomenon far more common in the minds of a few people than in actual fact.
That said? I'd much rather work on my game than read these forums (I wish I did the former more often and the latter less often!) and I'd much rather get 20 more downloads than 1 more post. Maybe RMN3 will be better for this!
I think WIP's argument boils down to, the site is more important than the forums. Which isn't true in RMNnow but might be true in RMN3. It all depends how much interactivity and functionality is added to the site in its next edition.
The notion that the forums and site are separate entities is what is wrong with RMN.
I...agree! At least a little, anyhow. However, they are separate entities to an extent, considering it's possible to do one and not the other completely. What if someone is just interesting in game making and playing games and doesn't touch the forums? Conversely, what if someone isn't into gamemaking anymore and just uses the forums, for the community and people?
author=Feldschlacht IV link=topic=2292.msg53186#msg53186 date=1230765060This isn't GW.
Conversely, what if someone isn't into gamemaking anymore and just uses the forums, for the community and people?
author=Max McGee link=topic=2292.msg53182#msg53182 date=1230764025I never said feedback was a bad thing.
Without feedback, how does one know that someone downloaded their game and loved it rather than, say, downloaded it and never played it or downloaded it and quit after one frustrating sequence? In the last case, in particular, I'd REALLY like the feedback so I know what to change.
Getting crucial intelligence to fix your game is more important and desirable than quote unquote "circlejerking", a rare phenomenon far more common in the minds of a few people than in actual fact.
That said? I'd much rather work on my game than read these forums (I wish I did the former more often and the latter less often!) and I'd much rather get 20 more downloads than 1 more post. Maybe RMN3 will be better for this!
I think WIP's argument boils down to, the site is more important than the forums. Which isn't true in RMNnow but might be true in RMN3. It all depends how much interactivity and functionality is added to the site in its next edition.
The site has always been more important than the forum.
For the record, RMN3 will make forums obsolete for this community.
What does GW have to do with anything? I'm not saying that people who aren't into gamemaking are encouraged over someone who does, but the community isn't all about gamemaking either and there will be instances where what I mentioned above will occur. Would you ban a longtime member if they weren't into gamemaking anymore but still valued the community and people and stuck around?
Perhaps, but just for the game making portions, and even then, not completely.
For the record, RMN3 will make forums obsolete for this community.
Perhaps, but just for the game making portions, and even then, not completely.
What do you mean "what does GW have to do with anything"? What do you think GW is now?
And the community is supposed to be about game making. That is where it went wrong and continues to be wrong.
And the community is supposed to be about game making. That is where it went wrong and continues to be wrong.
author=WIP link=topic=2292.msg53203#msg53203 date=1230766941
What do you mean "what does GW have to do with anything"? What do you think GW is now?
And the community is supposed to be about game making. That is where it went wrong and continues to be wrong.
I understand what you're trying to say, but a community, this community, any gamemaking community is more than just about making games. Making games is the most important part, but that's not all it is!
