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DUNGEONS IN RPGS - WHICH TYPES DO YOU PREFER?
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bulmabriefs144
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Closeauthor=dethmetal
That reminds me. Puzzles + random encounters is really bad combination. A game can have one of those, but should never have both.
Puzzles and penalty encounters (i.e. you get the puzzle wrong) are surprisingly good. They add an element of tension to the puzzle, especially if you are trying to brute force the puzzle with trial and error. Give a couple of easy monsters for getting it wrong the first two times, then add Ruby Dragon or so, if you keep getting it wrong.
That said, mazes and encounters are just evil. You can have the odd minotaur, but you should be able to avoid it. I love mazes btw, puzzles are a pain to create considering it takes them like five seconds to open some of the stuff, versus five hours at your end.
Penalty encounters wouldn't be "random", though. They are specifically triggered based on the player failing the puzzle. Which... kinda seems like a bad idea to me, as failing a puzzle is it's own roadblock.
*Edit: I dunno. I just get this sense that penalty encounters would either be save-scumed to the point of irrelevance, a point of frustration that causes players to put the game down?
*Edit: I dunno. I just get this sense that penalty encounters would either be save-scumed to the point of irrelevance, a point of frustration that causes players to put the game down?
author=Desertopa
I've never seen someone actually try to put an ice-sliding puzzle in a fire dungeon, but if someone decided to come up with an interesting excuse to justify having one, I'd be inclined to at least give it credit for originality.
Maybe a fire dungeon that is an ice dungeon... The boss invaded the fire dungeon and froze everything. So you deal with ice problems until you beat the boss, the dungeon thaws, then you have to deal with fire problems for the rest of the dungeon.
author=MarrendI'm fine with puzzles having higher stakes in the way of losing out on loot or getting damaged but getting a fight for screwing up has problems because a battle has a different emotional flow than a puzzle. I'd get annoyed quick. If the enemies gave good XP/$$$ and a save point was nearby then I'd intentionally grind off them too. Of course if there's no save point right there then I wouldn't.
Which... kinda seems like a bad idea to me, as failing a puzzle is it's own roadblock.
It's a carrot and the stick scenario for me. I'd rather reward players who do perfectly than punish ones who fail.
Hm, I prefer puzzles over enemies in my dungeon. But that would beat the cause, wouldn't it? So, dungeons shouldn't be about frustration or only slightly so. If resources are crucial, puzzles can beat the design. Random encounters in a room with puzzles doesn't sound like a good idea. Maybe if the puzzle is optional. The type of puzzles is quite important too by my reckoning.
Also, I prefer when battles are small puzzles themselves (every enemy has a claver solution/weak part/something else) instead of dull attack mashing. The best solution is when environment and battles go hand in hand in a dungeon and follow a certain common gimmick(you need to search for clues to defeat the monster for example).
Also, I prefer when battles are small puzzles themselves (every enemy has a claver solution/weak part/something else) instead of dull attack mashing. The best solution is when environment and battles go hand in hand in a dungeon and follow a certain common gimmick(you need to search for clues to defeat the monster for example).
author=Desertopaauthor=DragnflyI get annoyed by puzzles which are basically thematic non sequiturs (recently re-played Breath of Fire 3 and I was kind of stunned looking back at how many puzzles and minigames there are which there are no sensible reasons for,) but some types of puzzles are just too obvious in my opinion. If you have an ice cave, an ice-sliding puzzle is so expected I actually find it kind of annoying. I've never seen someone actually try to put an ice-sliding puzzle in a fire dungeon, but if someone decided to come up with an interesting excuse to justify having one, I'd be inclined to at least give it credit for originality.
-Puzzles following some sort of creative logic. Don't have ice sliding puzzles in your fire dungeon.
Easy~ Freeze the lava so you can cross but then you have a slippery road to follow. Natch! ;p
I'm all for field skills, equipment and items that affect dungeons. Cutting down trees, breaking rocks, climbing vines or pitted walls. I loved the dungeons in Terranigma, for example, which had some interactions you had to deal with. Big rock in the way? Equip your rock-smashing spear and destroy it. Cliff-face you can't climb? Did you find the claws that let you climb up certain parts of the wall yet? Poison room? Get you that poison cape on to pass/use the antidote drink. Wolves attacking you en mass? Whip out the dog whistle and send them away. Gloop monster out of reach when you're trying to protect baby lion not-Simba? Throw the rocks that not-Simba drops down for you.
Or Lufia puzzles. Damn, I love Lufia II. Not only is there dungeon interaction, but puzzles in and of themselves as well, tied into the dungeons. See a treasure chest you can't quite reach? Push some pillars into the water in order to make a bridge. Oh no, blocks! Pick those fuckers up and put them in their rightful place in order to break them. Use fire arrows on bushes to burn your way through. Bomb plates so that they change colour. Stun enemies with an arrow so they stay on the button so you can pass the door. Hit the right tune to open a door. Bomb a wall so the wall up a layer comes tumbling down, enabling you to get treasure.
All whilst enemies dog your footsteps (though in this case you can stun enemies so that they don't move, or out-manoeuvre them). Also the dungeons were pretty thematic and interesting. Fire cave with fire spider? Magical ice shards are used on lava to create a bridge to move forward (or get hidden treasure). Tower has elevators and switches as well as dropping down levels, bombing places and hook-shotting.
Breath of Fire II also had some great shit - from an underwater dungeon with breath timer and tides you'd have to fight against, to a witch tower with stone statues and cracked floors to fall down, to the thieves tomb with a giant game board and traps, to the forest with flying-fox basket rides. A lot of dungeons were similar in visual appearances but they all had their own little touches to make them different. There's the dream world of a tree where you can't see very well because the tree is old and forgets almost everything, there's the last dungeon which changes a few times but keeps going deeper and deeper and getting more and more organic in nature, there's the church which is quite structured and a race to the top, there's the queens body where you get shrunk and have to kill all of a certain enemy, there's the mushroom mountain where you have to stretch across gaps, there's the two frog town dungeons where you chase a fly around and collect ingredients and ride up a toilet elevator.
Thematic dungeons can be more than just ice/fire/water/wind/earth/etc.
It also helps if you don't put the story or character development on hold just because it's a puzzle.
While more of a dungeon trap, falling down holes can be made into a full-on puzzle and for as long as EXE Create has had us falling down holes, we've been treated to numerous lines of amusing dialogue per character http://i.imgur.com/htBWu0N.jpg
While more of a dungeon trap, falling down holes can be made into a full-on puzzle and for as long as EXE Create has had us falling down holes, we've been treated to numerous lines of amusing dialogue per character http://i.imgur.com/htBWu0N.jpg
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
author=Desertopa
I've never seen someone actually try to put an ice-sliding puzzle in a fire dungeon, but if someone decided to come up with an interesting excuse to justify having one, I'd be inclined to at least give it credit for originality.
Shit, I'm quoting comics from 2001. I might be old.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=Liberty
I'm all for field skills, equipment and items that affect dungeons. Cutting down trees, breaking rocks, climbing vines or pitted walls. I loved the dungeons in Terranigma, for example, which had some interactions you had to deal with. Big rock in the way? Equip your rock-smashing spear and destroy it. Cliff-face you can't climb? Did you find the claws that let you climb up certain parts of the wall yet?
I feel like stuff like this is less "puzzle" and more "find the key for a locked door." There's no real thought about it; either you have the item or you don't.
XBuster
1385
Personally, I love dungeons that have puzzles and enemy encounters that are visible, but don't always have to be. Some of my personal favorite dungeon designs in RPGs go to games like Golden Sun, Lufia 2, and the Tales of games(Symphonia and Graces I'm looking at you). However, Golden Sun had random encounters, so it was kind of annoying losing your thoughts of how to solve a puzzle because some random goon shows up.
I don't like ones with long,bland hallways like Phantasy Star 3. Randomly generated dungeons can be fun if done correctly. Last week, I just finished Persona 3 for the first time and it was fantastic! However, after moving through over 200+floors with nothing but stairs and flat ground, I got a bit tired of it. It does offer a sense of infinite possibilities and is perfect for getting unlimited loot, but depending on one's mind, it can be a double edged sword.
Platforming and quick events are also welcome. To avoid becoming too bland, its good to add some mandatory or optional events that make the character hop to a location or climb a ladder to add a sense of depth and realism to their locations.
Have your player hop on stepping stones across a stream or climb a rope to higher ground.
Golden Sun was a game that did this extremely well because with the abilities you were given, you could activate them on an object and use it to solve the great puzzles it had to offer. You could freeze a puddle and turn it into an ice pillar,make a little plant grow into a beanstalk to climb,and even make platforms out of huge flowers by blowing wind on them. Some Tales of games also have this item called the "Sorcerer's Ring" that changes elements and abilities that are required to progress through through their puzzle and trap-filled dungeons.Heck, even Lufia 2 borrowed lots of Zelda elements and had the potential for players to make permanent mistakes, but they were given a "Reset" Option if they messed up.
Of course, some people like to simply go from point A to point B in dungeons without having to be tested on puzzle solving skills, but its all a matter of personal preference.
I don't like ones with long,bland hallways like Phantasy Star 3. Randomly generated dungeons can be fun if done correctly. Last week, I just finished Persona 3 for the first time and it was fantastic! However, after moving through over 200+floors with nothing but stairs and flat ground, I got a bit tired of it. It does offer a sense of infinite possibilities and is perfect for getting unlimited loot, but depending on one's mind, it can be a double edged sword.
Platforming and quick events are also welcome. To avoid becoming too bland, its good to add some mandatory or optional events that make the character hop to a location or climb a ladder to add a sense of depth and realism to their locations.
Have your player hop on stepping stones across a stream or climb a rope to higher ground.
Golden Sun was a game that did this extremely well because with the abilities you were given, you could activate them on an object and use it to solve the great puzzles it had to offer. You could freeze a puddle and turn it into an ice pillar,make a little plant grow into a beanstalk to climb,and even make platforms out of huge flowers by blowing wind on them. Some Tales of games also have this item called the "Sorcerer's Ring" that changes elements and abilities that are required to progress through through their puzzle and trap-filled dungeons.Heck, even Lufia 2 borrowed lots of Zelda elements and had the potential for players to make permanent mistakes, but they were given a "Reset" Option if they messed up.
Of course, some people like to simply go from point A to point B in dungeons without having to be tested on puzzle solving skills, but its all a matter of personal preference.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
author=XBuster
Platforming and quick events are also welcome. To avoid becoming too bland, its good to add some mandatory or optional events that make the character hop to a location or climb a ladder to add a sense of depth and realism to their locations.
Have your player hop on stepping stones across a stream or climb a rope to higher ground.
Man, if I wanted to play a game that required quick thinking and good coordination, I wouldn't have picked a turn-based RPG!
XBuster
1385
author=Soozauthor=XBusterMan, if I wanted to play a game that required quick thinking and good coordination, I wouldn't have picked a turn-based RPG!
Platforming and quick events are also welcome. To avoid becoming too bland, its good to add some mandatory or optional events that make the character hop to a location or climb a ladder to add a sense of depth and realism to their locations.
Have your player hop on stepping stones across a stream or climb a rope to higher ground.
Haha! I'm not talking about in quick-time events XD. I mean the automatic events seen in games like Final Fantasy 7 where your character automatically hops from place to place when they come to a certain point. Or when you come across a ladder or something, you press a button to start climbing. You know, the stuff mostly seen in PS1 era RPGs.
I dislike Quick-time events :( Not that I'm bad at them, they just feel out of place most of the time and newer games are like HEY QTEs FUN RIGHT?! no.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
I hate QTEs because they're like "HEY YOU KNOW WHAT SYMBOLS ARE ON WHAT BUTTONS, RIGHT?" and I'm like "WAIT FUCK WHAT THEY HAVE SYMBOLS ON THEM?! SHIT SHIT SHIT!!! OHGOD!" and then I lose. :(
And that is why I play games that do not rely on my reflexes. Except for Dr. Mario.
To have this post be vaguely on-topic, I've been playing through Tales of Destiny to get some inspo on dungeon puzzles, and mostly the puzzles seem really underwhelming. Like, they're primarily just light thought and brute force, instead of any kind of lateral thinking. There's one puzzle that's a little bit clever, in that you have to arrange some spheres into a particular pattern, which includes pushing one off of a catwalk and making it shatter into the right place. (The necessary clues are scattered around the dungeon.)
A lot of the puzzles just seem to lengthen the dungeon, though, which is annoying because most of the time the dungeon is adequately long and super underpopulated as far as monsters go, so the random battles get real boring, real fast.
I think, if you want to do real puzzles in a dungeon, maybe have them open a bonus area, so the player isn't required to solve them and therefore you don't have to make them unchallenging.
And that is why I play games that do not rely on my reflexes. Except for Dr. Mario.
To have this post be vaguely on-topic, I've been playing through Tales of Destiny to get some inspo on dungeon puzzles, and mostly the puzzles seem really underwhelming. Like, they're primarily just light thought and brute force, instead of any kind of lateral thinking. There's one puzzle that's a little bit clever, in that you have to arrange some spheres into a particular pattern, which includes pushing one off of a catwalk and making it shatter into the right place. (The necessary clues are scattered around the dungeon.)
A lot of the puzzles just seem to lengthen the dungeon, though, which is annoying because most of the time the dungeon is adequately long and super underpopulated as far as monsters go, so the random battles get real boring, real fast.
I think, if you want to do real puzzles in a dungeon, maybe have them open a bonus area, so the player isn't required to solve them and therefore you don't have to make them unchallenging.
Desertopa
775
author=Sooz
To have this post be vaguely on-topic, I've been playing through Tales of Destiny to get some inspo on dungeon puzzles, and mostly the puzzles seem really underwhelming. Like, they're primarily just light thought and brute force, instead of any kind of lateral thinking. There's one puzzle that's a little bit clever, in that you have to arrange some spheres into a particular pattern, which includes pushing one off of a catwalk and making it shatter into the right place. (The necessary clues are scattered around the dungeon.)
A lot of the puzzles just seem to lengthen the dungeon, though, which is annoying because most of the time the dungeon is adequately long and super underpopulated as far as monsters go, so the random battles get real boring, real fast.
I read this, and I was like "Tales of Destiny, I played that one, right? That had puzzles?"
Thinking back, I vaguely remember there being some stuff related to using that ring which fires beams, but mostly I just remember it as being stuff that prevented you from completing dungeons by traveling in straight lines, rather than stuff which actually required any particular lateral thinking. Maybe there were some ice-sliding puzzles in there too? That's usually a thing.
I feel like if you really just want to prevent the player from traversing the dungeon in a straight line, maybe it's better to do that without the pretense of offering puzzles.
ETA: No wait, I remember there was that one puzzle I had to look up, because it was one of those bullshit puzzles based on the order of the zodiac, and I've never paid enough attention to astrology to remember how that goes.
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
Yeah, the puzzles are really lackluster. (And don't even really start until almost halfway through the game.)
A list of the puzzles in ToD:
-In the very first area, there are some blocks to move by pushing/pulling.
-Several dungeons later, there are raised tiles of two different colors, and two doors of corresponding colors. You have to step on all the tiles of a color to open that door. Both doors go to the same place.
-Another dungeon where you have to move blocks to clear your path. Not in any sort of pattern, they're just in your way.
-Several dungeons later, a couple of raise/lower water level puzzles (lowering the water allows you to walk in certain areas; raising the water allows powered doors to open) that require you to push some blocks into place to complete paths.
-Same dungeon, a set of 8 switches make separate sound effects. Listen at a locked door to hear a sequence of the sound effects, then press the switches in the proper order.
-In addition to more water level puzzles, next dungeon has a couple of "move block to press a switch or clear a path" puzzles. (One involves pushing a block into a hole from a floor above.) Also the aforementioned zodiac puzzle, which is sort of clever but also intensely tedious.
-Next dungeon is an ice one, so the requisite "slide around" puzzle happens, along with introducing the Sorceror's Ring, albeit with no puzzle stuff yet.
-Next dungeon has more slidey shenanigans and a point where you need to use the ring to zap some ice blocks and a target.
-Next dungeon has some tedious futzing around with elevators and switches, lighting torches with the ring to open corresponding doors, and melting one frozen chain so it can move.
-Some time later, there's a dungeon with some conveyor belt mazes and a fairly simple password door. (You have to figure out the words corresponding to a short number sequence.)
-A few dungeons later, a buttload of mazes involving moving platforms and switches- platforms of the same color move at the same time.
-Couple dungeons later, more conveyor belt mazes, also another password door (WITH CLUES THAT DON'T GIVE THE ACTUAL PASSWORD >:(((( )
-The "arrange things according to clues" puzzle happens in the next dungeon.
-Next dungeon has a couple puzzles that require a modicum of thinking: first, using the ring to shoot targets that cause the walkable areas of a path to change (allowing you to get goodies and then progress); second, switching mirrors' positions to change the path of a beam of light so that it hits a target.
-Next one has "push a block to fill in a hole so you can keep going." If you count "notice a thing" as a puzzle, it also has slightly hidden passages?
-The final dungeon has a puzzle involving pointing objects in the correct direction according to clues.
It's a lot of stuff, but mostly really, really basic and kinda tedious stuff that didn't seem to add to the experience.
A list of the puzzles in ToD:
-In the very first area, there are some blocks to move by pushing/pulling.
-Several dungeons later, there are raised tiles of two different colors, and two doors of corresponding colors. You have to step on all the tiles of a color to open that door. Both doors go to the same place.
-Another dungeon where you have to move blocks to clear your path. Not in any sort of pattern, they're just in your way.
-Several dungeons later, a couple of raise/lower water level puzzles (lowering the water allows you to walk in certain areas; raising the water allows powered doors to open) that require you to push some blocks into place to complete paths.
-Same dungeon, a set of 8 switches make separate sound effects. Listen at a locked door to hear a sequence of the sound effects, then press the switches in the proper order.
-In addition to more water level puzzles, next dungeon has a couple of "move block to press a switch or clear a path" puzzles. (One involves pushing a block into a hole from a floor above.) Also the aforementioned zodiac puzzle, which is sort of clever but also intensely tedious.
-Next dungeon is an ice one, so the requisite "slide around" puzzle happens, along with introducing the Sorceror's Ring, albeit with no puzzle stuff yet.
-Next dungeon has more slidey shenanigans and a point where you need to use the ring to zap some ice blocks and a target.
-Next dungeon has some tedious futzing around with elevators and switches, lighting torches with the ring to open corresponding doors, and melting one frozen chain so it can move.
-Some time later, there's a dungeon with some conveyor belt mazes and a fairly simple password door. (You have to figure out the words corresponding to a short number sequence.)
-A few dungeons later, a buttload of mazes involving moving platforms and switches- platforms of the same color move at the same time.
-Couple dungeons later, more conveyor belt mazes, also another password door (WITH CLUES THAT DON'T GIVE THE ACTUAL PASSWORD >:(((( )
-The "arrange things according to clues" puzzle happens in the next dungeon.
-Next dungeon has a couple puzzles that require a modicum of thinking: first, using the ring to shoot targets that cause the walkable areas of a path to change (allowing you to get goodies and then progress); second, switching mirrors' positions to change the path of a beam of light so that it hits a target.
-Next one has "push a block to fill in a hole so you can keep going." If you count "notice a thing" as a puzzle, it also has slightly hidden passages?
-The final dungeon has a puzzle involving pointing objects in the correct direction according to clues.
It's a lot of stuff, but mostly really, really basic and kinda tedious stuff that didn't seem to add to the experience.
Bricabrac
111
I only played two Tales of games (Symphonia and Abyss), but I liked the dungeons there: visible enemies, a theme for every dungeon, and some light puzzles that you usually solve by using your magic light ring.
Knowing that you can only interact with puzzle elements with the ring is very cool&useful, imho - you will NEVER get stuck because you're missing some item or didn't see something; you always have all the "ingredients" of the puzzle clear in your mind. They also manage to tie fights and puzzle solving quite effectively.
Two examples I remember:
- A dungeon with an elevator you can activate only by charging a battery first. To do it, you had to fight certain electric enemies in the dungeon and use the battery in the middle of the battle to charge it.
- A military base when you can turn the alarm to lure the guards in a corner and then silently dispose of them, this accessing the rooms they were guarding.
Speaking of real-time rpgs, on the other hand, I always loved Boktai's dungeons. THAT GAMES ARE TOO UNDERRATED. They had puzzles, strong themes, stealth sections, and just a lot of things done right.
(In Boktai 1 you go to the boss dungeons to fight a vampire, and then you have to drag its coffin outside to burn it - so you have to backtrack, but having this big casket to carry completely changes the way you approach the dungeon. Woah.)
Knowing that you can only interact with puzzle elements with the ring is very cool&useful, imho - you will NEVER get stuck because you're missing some item or didn't see something; you always have all the "ingredients" of the puzzle clear in your mind. They also manage to tie fights and puzzle solving quite effectively.
Two examples I remember:
- A dungeon with an elevator you can activate only by charging a battery first. To do it, you had to fight certain electric enemies in the dungeon and use the battery in the middle of the battle to charge it.
- A military base when you can turn the alarm to lure the guards in a corner and then silently dispose of them, this accessing the rooms they were guarding.
Speaking of real-time rpgs, on the other hand, I always loved Boktai's dungeons. THAT GAMES ARE TOO UNDERRATED. They had puzzles, strong themes, stealth sections, and just a lot of things done right.
(In Boktai 1 you go to the boss dungeons to fight a vampire, and then you have to drag its coffin outside to burn it - so you have to backtrack, but having this big casket to carry completely changes the way you approach the dungeon. Woah.)
Desertopa
775
author=Satedauthor=Desertopa"This ice-themed dungeon has an ice-themed puzzle. Fuck this developer!"
If you have an ice cave, an ice-sliding puzzle is so expected I actually find it kind of annoying.
It's hard to properly describe such an attitude without breaking RMN rules so... let's just say that you're being very silly and leave it at that.
To be clear, I don't think it's a bad idea to use puzzles which are thematically consistent with the type of dungeon. If you have an ice dungeon, by all means go for puzzles with an ice theme. But ice-sliding puzzles are pretty overplayed, to the point that if you have an ice themed dungeon in a game which has featured any puzzles at all up to that point, I'm going to expect you're probably going to throw in an ice-sliding puzzle.
Subverting player expectations doesn't mean you have to do something which doesn't make sense in context. Or, to flip that around, doing something thematically consistent doesn't mean you have to do the most obvious thematically consistent thing. If you want to do something less expected in an ice dungeon, you might, say, have a puzzle revolving around constructing a bridge across unsafe footing so you don't slip and fall to your deaths. Or a puzzle based on charting out a route which minimizes your party's exposure to freezing winds so they don't get hypothermia. Those are just a couple examples off the top of my head of ice-themed puzzles which I haven't seen before.
anglerman
71
I like dungeons with visible but unreachable rewards, such as chests that you can only get to by going completely out of your way and ending up on top of the previous area.
Also, the least backtracked as possible, with either one-way shortcuts or locked doors. Especially effective if there are multiple shortcuts to a central hub or to the entrance to let you quickly get outside to buy/sell/heal after comfortable amounts of time.
Also, the least backtracked as possible, with either one-way shortcuts or locked doors. Especially effective if there are multiple shortcuts to a central hub or to the entrance to let you quickly get outside to buy/sell/heal after comfortable amounts of time.
I liked "puzzles" in the dark spire. Well, not traditionally and it was first-person-dungeoncrawling BUT it did give lots of flavor in a way that could easily be introduced to an rpg maker crawl.
You sometimes met weird people to talk with, and often you at some point got quests for those.
You also had a recurring knight you met and likely get to know better over time.
Stepping into certain rooms gave you a riddle prompt - that you could turn away from, if you wanted.
Interacting with certain things (say, a symbol on the wall), would give you a short description prompt. There was one wall with graffiti on it, at some point the person spraying it there asks you to remove it (via quest board), as the writing mistakes are too embarrassing.
There were lots of hidden areas, though most of them were necessary to find for progression.
1. Lots of flavor text or story background
2. Riddles and things to figure out to THEN use traversing the area and finding extra stuff
Say, there was a path where you stepped on the first tile of two parallel pathways it acted as a switch - indicated by a nice metal switch sound (this is important). And if you got all activated at the same time something would happen in the room at the end of the corridor. With the note you could more easily figure it out, and it was a fun writing style too. If you just walked straight through the pathways it would not work out. So just to be given the note that something IS indeed there, is important and great incentive to experiment.
3. Riddles and puzzles are better for optional content than the have-to-story progression imho. It just feels like you get rewarded for your work, rather than "I have to do this else I am stuck, fuck you"
4. (as LockeZ already mentioned) use the environment.
-> make sth happen as you interact with things that stand out, doesn't matter how or what, even if it is just finding left behind items of a now deceased traveler
Why are there all those items when they serve no purpose other than aesthetic? clearly this place must have had some meaning or story, what is it? Is there something hidden with it?
Are there any people left behind that are fending on their own aka are not part of the bad evil's army or natural monster flocks?
As you can tell, I quite enjoy the story flavor text route. Keep it succinctly nicely short and yer good.
That's the type of dungeon I like. Ofc, good battles too. (hello smt <3)
Also, uh.. make more than tunnels. Aesthetically. I remember hating Shadow Hearts 2 dungeons so, so so so so so so so sossomuch. It was literally 99% TUNNELS. Aesthetically and gameplay-wise.
It was the saddest, terrible slog to go through. Unappealing, boring and nothing happened. Tho, that'd be most uninspired and odd to replicate in rpgmaker, haha.
Meanwhile I loved the first one lol. It had no tunnels, thank god.
You sometimes met weird people to talk with, and often you at some point got quests for those.
You also had a recurring knight you met and likely get to know better over time.
Stepping into certain rooms gave you a riddle prompt - that you could turn away from, if you wanted.
Interacting with certain things (say, a symbol on the wall), would give you a short description prompt. There was one wall with graffiti on it, at some point the person spraying it there asks you to remove it (via quest board), as the writing mistakes are too embarrassing.
There were lots of hidden areas, though most of them were necessary to find for progression.
1. Lots of flavor text or story background
2. Riddles and things to figure out to THEN use traversing the area and finding extra stuff
Say, there was a path where you stepped on the first tile of two parallel pathways it acted as a switch - indicated by a nice metal switch sound (this is important). And if you got all activated at the same time something would happen in the room at the end of the corridor. With the note you could more easily figure it out, and it was a fun writing style too. If you just walked straight through the pathways it would not work out. So just to be given the note that something IS indeed there, is important and great incentive to experiment.
3. Riddles and puzzles are better for optional content than the have-to-story progression imho. It just feels like you get rewarded for your work, rather than "I have to do this else I am stuck, fuck you"
4. (as LockeZ already mentioned) use the environment.
-> make sth happen as you interact with things that stand out, doesn't matter how or what, even if it is just finding left behind items of a now deceased traveler
Why are there all those items when they serve no purpose other than aesthetic? clearly this place must have had some meaning or story, what is it? Is there something hidden with it?
Are there any people left behind that are fending on their own aka are not part of the bad evil's army or natural monster flocks?
As you can tell, I quite enjoy the story flavor text route. Keep it succinctly nicely short and yer good.
That's the type of dungeon I like. Ofc, good battles too. (hello smt <3)
Also, uh.. make more than tunnels. Aesthetically. I remember hating Shadow Hearts 2 dungeons so, so so so so so so so sossomuch. It was literally 99% TUNNELS. Aesthetically and gameplay-wise.
It was the saddest, terrible slog to go through. Unappealing, boring and nothing happened. Tho, that'd be most uninspired and odd to replicate in rpgmaker, haha.
Meanwhile I loved the first one lol. It had no tunnels, thank god.
