Full Games List
Featured Games
New Games
Reviews
Media
Images
Blogs
Game Updates
Images Feedback Summary
Game Design Highlights
Tutorials
Articles
Scripts
Utilities / Plugins
Resources
Engines
Engine Bulletins
What is Makerscore?
Past Events
Achievements
Misaos
Forums
Post History
Chat
New to RMN?
Full Store List
RMN Music Pack (free)
STAT NAMING AND THEIR PURPOSES
Posts
Pages:
1
anglerman
71
anglerman
View playlists
CloseSo I've been struggling with a few things in relation to naming and multi-purposing stats.
In my game, the three main stats are Blood, Retribution and Soul.
These work for:
Blood: Increases the damage of all equipment-granted skills (which is the bulk of a character's skillset, those are selected with the Actions command)
Retribution: Increases the damage of counter-attacks (which both enemies and allies have natural 100% counter-rate, with equipment modifying available counters)
Soul: Increases the damage of all Magic, which in turn costs health to cast, but doesn't get counter-attacked by. Those are selected by the Bone Magic command.
This also comes with the different kinds of Elements I use.
Smoke - which is basically Fire+Poison
Dust - Earth+Wind
Noise - stuff like screams, confusion, hitting people with bells
Scrap - all metal-ish stuff with a couple things dealing with rust
Rain - basically Water+Wind+Eletricity
Showing the game to some friends caused a lot of confusion in regards to these changes from classical RPG systems.
Is a system like this too unintuitive and otherwordly to work out and be quickly understood by players? How much difference from the classics is the average RPG Maker game player comfortable with learning when they start new games?
I used to have Strength instead of Blood but considering the nature of skills and the game's theme (the party is all skeletons) I thought of renaming it and even creating skills based on that (such as Hypertension and "Bleed" effects lowering damage progressively) but I'm not sure it's a good idea.
Regardless, what would you guys recommend? I don't feel like extensive tutorials are fun to players especially if they aren't already engaged to the game.
In my game, the three main stats are Blood, Retribution and Soul.
These work for:
Blood: Increases the damage of all equipment-granted skills (which is the bulk of a character's skillset, those are selected with the Actions command)
Retribution: Increases the damage of counter-attacks (which both enemies and allies have natural 100% counter-rate, with equipment modifying available counters)
Soul: Increases the damage of all Magic, which in turn costs health to cast, but doesn't get counter-attacked by. Those are selected by the Bone Magic command.
This also comes with the different kinds of Elements I use.
Smoke - which is basically Fire+Poison
Dust - Earth+Wind
Noise - stuff like screams, confusion, hitting people with bells
Scrap - all metal-ish stuff with a couple things dealing with rust
Rain - basically Water+Wind+Eletricity
Showing the game to some friends caused a lot of confusion in regards to these changes from classical RPG systems.
Is a system like this too unintuitive and otherwordly to work out and be quickly understood by players? How much difference from the classics is the average RPG Maker game player comfortable with learning when they start new games?
I used to have Strength instead of Blood but considering the nature of skills and the game's theme (the party is all skeletons) I thought of renaming it and even creating skills based on that (such as Hypertension and "Bleed" effects lowering damage progressively) but I'm not sure it's a good idea.
Regardless, what would you guys recommend? I don't feel like extensive tutorials are fun to players especially if they aren't already engaged to the game.
Shinan
4314
If you are going with unintuitive (that is non-standard) stats, stat names and stat uses you will just have to live with the fact that some tutorializing is needed. However you don't really need that much. But you always need it accessible. So the typical way of doing it is doing the tooltip model during character creation. Or at any time when leveling up and increasing the stats the tooltips are always there. And also making sure the tooltip information is always quickly and painlessly accessible.
I mean this is good practice even with standard statnames. But it is especially important when using nonstandard ones. Because the player sometimes needs reminding of what "+2 Soul" means and if it is better than "+2 Blood" for their character build.
I mean this is good practice even with standard statnames. But it is especially important when using nonstandard ones. Because the player sometimes needs reminding of what "+2 Soul" means and if it is better than "+2 Blood" for their character build.
anglerman
71
author=Shinan
So the typical way of doing it is doing the tooltip model during character creation. Or at any time when leveling up and increasing the stats the tooltips are always there. And also making sure the tooltip information is always quickly and painlessly accessible.
What I did so far was to include text in every skill text on what stat they use to calculate damage, such as:
Power: 80 Blood, <icon>Scrap Attack
Effect: does this and that <single target/AoE> <cooldown time>
Also every skill icon itself follows the same coloration as their element.
Where do you think would it be a good place to quickly display more information? I believe an item that triggers a common event to show some info would be too hidden but in RPGMaker with little coding knowledge that's what I think of.
Hrm. From the example skill that you're relaying, both characters and skills have a "Blood" attribute. I can suppose skills could also have a "Soul" or "Retribution" attribute. I think the confusion lies in what's actually being used, more than what the functionality is, though, functionality could be a point of confusion too.
However, back to my original point, using your example above, does that translate into the skill using 80% of the character's Blood attribute? Does it mean that the skill adds 80 to the character's Blood attribute? Does it mean that the skill has an 80 Blood attribute onto itself, and has nothing to do with the character?
However, back to my original point, using your example above, does that translate into the skill using 80% of the character's Blood attribute? Does it mean that the skill adds 80 to the character's Blood attribute? Does it mean that the skill has an 80 Blood attribute onto itself, and has nothing to do with the character?
Sooz
They told me I was mad when I said I was going to create a spidertable. Who’s laughing now!!!
5354
TBH I think it's fairly intuitive. Needs some explaining, not a lot. You don't necessarily need to do a full-on tutorial or anything, you can just make some examinable text and/or NPCs to explain it in a beginning area. The Pokemon series does a pretty good job of this, scattering NPCs about who explain individual aspects of the system.
I'd personally have renamed Retribution to something like "Sinew," since it's the odd one out in the naming theme. I'd also rename Health to Bone. But that's neither here nor there -_^
I'd personally have renamed Retribution to something like "Sinew," since it's the odd one out in the naming theme. I'd also rename Health to Bone. But that's neither here nor there -_^
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Any tutorial for this system would be, like, three sentences max. Specifically these three sentences you already wrote:
The stuff about counterattacks they can figure out by playing. Probably you want an early boss to teach them this right after they gain their first magic skill. For example, you could make the first boss have an AOE counterattack that hits the entire party for something like 30% of their HP. Name the counterattack Blood for Blood, and have the boss do almost nothing else except for, like, hitting for a small amount of damage and maybe stunning a hero for one round. After seeing the Blood for Blood counterattack two or three times in a row, the player'll be like, "Hey. I have one skill that's not Blood. Let's try that."
You really don't need to explain the elements at all, element names are totally arbitrary anyway. If you change "Scrap Attack" to "Scrap-Elemental" in the tooltips you're good to go. Then the player can immediately tell they're elements.
Blood: Increases the damage of equipment-granted skills.
Retribution: Increases the damage of counter-attacks.
Soul: Increases the damage of magic.
The stuff about counterattacks they can figure out by playing. Probably you want an early boss to teach them this right after they gain their first magic skill. For example, you could make the first boss have an AOE counterattack that hits the entire party for something like 30% of their HP. Name the counterattack Blood for Blood, and have the boss do almost nothing else except for, like, hitting for a small amount of damage and maybe stunning a hero for one round. After seeing the Blood for Blood counterattack two or three times in a row, the player'll be like, "Hey. I have one skill that's not Blood. Let's try that."
You really don't need to explain the elements at all, element names are totally arbitrary anyway. If you change "Scrap Attack" to "Scrap-Elemental" in the tooltips you're good to go. Then the player can immediately tell they're elements.
anglerman
71
Thanks for the replies everyone! Really clarifies some doubts I had in relation to all of this.
Yes, precisely. If the player hovers onto a Magic or Counter skill they'll display their strength in Soul and Retribution instead.
That's it, the 'power' is a multiplicative factor in the skill's damage formula. Since the game doesn't have a true Defense stat (instead using the mana (as "Armor") bar to protect HP, gained through some skill uses), the formula goes simply like 0.8 * a.atk for 80 Blood Power.
I use some Graves with question marks displayed on them for these kinds of information. About 2 per map, 1 at most.
Oh, thanks for the idea! Sinew sounds really good in fact! I initially thought of Cartilage but Sinew does fit the low-syllabes from Soul and Blood! Health is indeed called Bones already, with several bone-related things increasing/healing health, such as scattered dead skeletons which can be "assimilated" for healing.
This is a really smart way to emphasize game mechanics. I really like it! I'm probably building a boss with that exact skillset! Thank you!
Rephrasing skill texts for Power: x, Element: y, Effect: z really clears things a bit without much hassle. I like that!
author=Marrend
I can suppose skills could also have a "Soul" or "Retribution" attribute.
Yes, precisely. If the player hovers onto a Magic or Counter skill they'll display their strength in Soul and Retribution instead.
author=Marrend
However, back to my original point, using your example above, does that translate into the skill using 80% of the character's Blood attribute?
That's it, the 'power' is a multiplicative factor in the skill's damage formula. Since the game doesn't have a true Defense stat (instead using the mana (as "Armor") bar to protect HP, gained through some skill uses), the formula goes simply like 0.8 * a.atk for 80 Blood Power.
author=Sooz
You don't necessarily need to do a full-on tutorial or anything, you can just make some examinable text and/or NPCs to explain it in a beginning area.
I use some Graves with question marks displayed on them for these kinds of information. About 2 per map, 1 at most.
author=Sooz
I'd personally have renamed Retribution to something like "Sinew," since it's the odd one out in the naming theme. I'd also rename Health to Bone. But that's neither here nor there -_^
Oh, thanks for the idea! Sinew sounds really good in fact! I initially thought of Cartilage but Sinew does fit the low-syllabes from Soul and Blood! Health is indeed called Bones already, with several bone-related things increasing/healing health, such as scattered dead skeletons which can be "assimilated" for healing.
author=LockeZ
For example, you could make the first boss have an AOE counterattack that hits the entire party for something like 30% of their HP. Name the counterattack Blood for Blood, and have the boss do almost nothing else except for, like, hitting for a small amount of damage and maybe stunning a hero for one round. After seeing the Blood for Blood counterattack two or three times in a row, the player'll be like, "Hey. I have one skill that's not Blood. Let's try that."
This is a really smart way to emphasize game mechanics. I really like it! I'm probably building a boss with that exact skillset! Thank you!
author=LockeZ
If you change "Scrap Attack" to "Scrap-Elemental" in the tooltips you're good to go.
Rephrasing skill texts for Power: x, Element: y, Effect: z really clears things a bit without much hassle. I like that!
That's it, the 'power' is a multiplicative factor in the skill's damage formula. Since the game doesn't have a true Defense stat (instead using the mana (as "Armor") bar to protect HP, gained through some skill uses), the formula goes simply like 0.8 * a.atk for 80 Blood Power.
Okay, I think I get it. Though, if mana reserves serves as "armor", it seems to me that the formula, in this case, would be 0.8 * a.atk - b.mp. Or something like that!
Pages:
1
