IS THERE SOMETHING WRONG WITH ME? AM I JUST NOT A GOOD DEV?

Posts

pianotm
The TM is for Totally Magical.
26612
@RN: Oh, no I didn't mean to make it sound like that. No, it wasn't like they were telling me to take it down. It was like being told to go eat at the kid's table. As for your experiences with RoI, yeah, misogyny and racism seem to be pretty rampant everywhere, these days.

@GRS: thank you! ;_; Don't really have anyone to hug, either, but thank you!

@Volrath: I tried, but it's hard to take anything of value away from a video that is playing to the masses.

@Hex: Yeah, that's exactly what happened. Kloe told me that the comments were for The Protest Vote, which actually is a troll game whose sole purpose was to disrupt IGMC. The streamer didn't realize while they were playing, but then the game started defending things like piracy and making slights on the judges, so they went to the game page to see what it was all about, and there was this whole tl;dr about how evil IGMC was because a couple of years ago, they got disqualified for using rips, and how dare they only allow the use of RPG Maker for this one.

@SgtMettool, bicfarmer, Blindmind, Dyhalto, halibabica: thanks guys. There really wasn't anything useful that I could see. I supposed the closest I could get was when they said that my music was putting them to sleep, which isn't a critique. It's subjective bitching. That was coupled with the fights being boring, which I'm already trying to make my battles better, but I've come to a loss. Maybe I should just start doing random encounters.
I can't give an irl hug, this is the best I can do:

halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
13918
I dunno, I spotted a few nuggets that I think you can use.

They noted the scale difference between the monsters and the battlers. Granted, RPG monsters are often many times the size of the hero sprites, but I think that depends on how battles are presented more than anything else. I'm thinking back to old FFs where battle sprites have this disparity. Battles in those games aren't presented in a realistic way; things are more conceptual. I think the field of view is what caused the issue for your game. With the battlefield stretching into the distance, it appears as though the heroes are occupying the same space as the monsters, so the disparity becomes noticeable.

They pointed out a weird graphical quirk with the unicorn's crotch after battle victory. Even I'm not sure what's up with that.

They often mentioned that the maps were bad, but didn't elaborate on it at all. I don't think they were awful, but they were rather uninspiring to me. I'm no mapping guru, but I'm sure others can advise you better in this area.

The one thing I noticed in particular was how they approached (or avoided) combat. They fought your first group of ice witches, then bailed on the second one after seeing it was more of the same. They dodged and ran from later encounters until they saw the penguins, which they fought. This behavioral feedback can be useful to you. If the penguins were introduced second instead of having more ice witches, they may not have fled that new fight so quickly. Having a variety of enemies and combining them in interesting ways helps keep combat from feeling stale. Too many of the encounters here were the same thing.

I still think a lot of their lack of enthusiasm was just due to the length of their play session. It seems they were doing a bunch of games in a row, yours being maybe 4th in line or so. Judging by their spreadsheet, they hadn't had the most enthralling time before that, so they weren't in a position to be wowed.

There may be more you can glean from it if you look hard, but they really didn't give you much to take away.
author=GreatRedSpirit
I can't give an irl hug, this is the best I can do:


This is the most precious gif I've ever seen and should make anyone feel better.

Er, on topic, I have a pretty high opinion of you as a dev. Obviously, take criticisms, but giving them is an art tbh. One they don't sound especially good at! Sure, they were probably exasperated but... but still.
Is there something wrong with me?

NO

Am I just not a good dev?

This question is irrelevant. If you find joy while building your game and/or feel accomplished when your computer finally runs your game as you like, keep doing it! Skill level and enjoyment are two separated things: if you are the best dev but don't enjoy making games, I would recommend you to stop and find a hobby you like.

Analyze the negative criticism: is it pure anger to attract viewers or is there something to learn from it.

Let's have a look at the second comment to kory_toombs as example:

"Action puzzles with a timer in a turn-based game. Nope.
Delete folder? Yes, I'm sure."


The player didn't like action puzzles under time pressure to the point he/she dropped the game. The timers might be too short. Maybe an Easy Mode that gives more time to the player would help. What about a Story Mode with timers removed?

"Ah... started out so good... Whelp, moving on."

The game intro and beginning are really good!


But sometimes, the comment is pure rage and anger. So you should discard it and focus on the things that makes you happy.
Yellow Magic
Could I BE any more Chandler Bing from Friends (TM)?
3154
Why are we not mentioning the username of this particular reviewer? I Ctrl + F'd "Indrah" right after reading one half the second paragraph in the OP and found nothing.

Piano, you're not the only one: I felt the same way after Indrah LP'd my IGMC entry a couple years back.

There is definitely something to be said about accepting criticism, but let's be honest: Some people are much better at criticising than others.

PS: No, making such a video for "the wider audience, not the original gamedev" isn't an excuse. Obviously the original gamedev is gonna end up as one of the wider audience!
author=Housekeeping
You're not a bad developer; you're a developer who's still learning. Creating an rpg requires a knowledge of game design, art, music, coding, and writing. There are a lot of factors at work, and most people only have time in their lives to master one or two of these, and you're having to do them all. I'm sure there are seeds of truth to some of the criticism because it's impossible for you to make the perfect game alone (especially under time constraints). And, even if you make a game that you love and others love and you think is perfect, someone is still going to come along and shit on it. As hard as it is, all you can do is learn what you can and move forward.
^+1

I wanted to chime in on this as well, cause I feel like this is important:

Constructive criticism of any kind is generally meant to be an assessment of your own work in order to incite improvements - but if said constructive criticism stops you from working on your project completely, then that's not really an improvement now is it?

As a creator you have a right to feel good about your work.
But anything that doesn't allow you to learn, to grow, to strive and to continue to improve - isn't really worth listening to.

EDIT: ...Yeah, I just saw the review you guys are talking about: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=roHWUEGKG5M& - she's deliberately trashing your work for entertainment purposes - just ignore this piantom; there's nothing that can be learned from this, don't even give this review the time of day.

It's not funny, it's not even cool. This is just what sick people do to feel better about themselves.

There is nothing you could have done here to change her mind and thinking otherwise is just going to drive you crazy - just ignore this.
Hey Pianotm, I remember your stuff from summoner of sounds.
I don't post much, if at all on these forums, but I felt like posting this time around on this subject. Firstly, I haven't seen the review you mentioned, but the style of it sounds like it was written for entertainment, not critique. In any of those reviews, the deconstruction necessary to actually do an analysis of the game in questions is not there, because that's not what they're trying to do. Getting information about what to improve out of that type of review is not possible.

Now, I think that's the obvious point, and everyone else has mentioned that. I think the less obvious point here is that you're splitting. You're taking your perfectly reasonable emotional response to a critique like that and dividing the world up into good devs and bad devs. That's not how making games work, you can't divide people up that way, they're much more complex than that. You have certain skills that you can use, and if you can maximize your game to rely on those skills, then you'll make amazing games.

Recently, I was at a small indie-dev meetup, and Amanda Fitch gave a short talk about game marketing. She got a lot of hate online for trying to sell an rpgmaker game (she was one of the first to do so, and do it well), but that mocking stopped once Aveyond started selling. The mockers weren't looking at it from the point of view of someone who wasn't familiar with rpgmaker, which were the people buying the game. Hell, if I was an asshole, I would have mocked and laughed at Minecraft when I first saw it - the pixel art was garbage, and everything seemed amateurish to me. I just didn't get it. Fortunately, I'm not an asshole and I didn't embarrass myself back then.
I skimmed the video your referring to. I recognize the name as a restaff repeat contributor but thats about it. They talked in an accent that i could barely understand. I think the ending where they show that spread sheet was really bad taste, but it was from a stream that i'm guessing that they just broke into parts on youtube.

author=halibabica
They often mentioned that the maps were bad, but didn't elaborate on it at all. I don't think they were awful, but they were rather uninspiring to me. I'm no mapping guru, but I'm sure others can advise you better in this area.

When you are using RTP, this inevitably happens.

author=halibabica
The one thing I noticed in particular was how they approached (or avoided) combat. They fought your first group of ice witches, then bailed on the second one after seeing it was more of the same. They dodged and ran from later encounters until they saw the penguins, which they fought. This behavioral feedback can be useful to you. If the penguins were introduced second instead of having more ice witches, they may not have fled that new fight so quickly. Having a variety of enemies and combining them in interesting ways helps keep combat from feeling stale. Too many of the encounters here were the same thing.
If I was playing, honestly i'd do the same thing. The first monster in the game hitting you with magic and it hurts. Not very efficient for me to deal with 3 of those at a time as the first battle in the game. I think yanfly said to have 7 different types of enemies per dongeon.

Red_Nova
The all around prick
7612
author=Yellow Magic
Why are we not mentioning the username of this particular reviewer? I Ctrl + F'd "Indrah" right after reading one half the second paragraph in the OP and found nothing.


Because this isn't a topic bashing Indrah. This is a topic about dealing with feedback like hers. At least, that's the angle I'm pushing.

PS: No, making such a video for "the wider audience, not the original gamedev" isn't an excuse. Obviously the original gamedev is gonna end up as one of the wider audience!


I wasn't making excuses for Indrah. I was using that statement to point out that the video was not blind hate like I was initially led to believe. I'll expand more on this below.

author=LordBlueRouge
Constructive criticism of any kind is generally meant to be an assessment of your own work in order to incite improvements - but if said constructive criticism stops you from working on your project completely, then that's not really an improvement now is it?

As a creator you have a right to feel good about your work.
But anything that doesn't allow you to learn, to grow, to strive and to continue to improve - isn't really worth listening to.


I feel like we're about to get into an argument over semantics, but...

There's a difference between criticism and constructive criticism. The former is the person's opinion, and the latter is a person's opinion on how to improve a game.

"This game sucks," is criticism. "Oh god, the mapping is absolute garbage," is also criticism. "The environments are so amazingly bland. FFS is it really too much to ask the dev to put a tree here or there?" I would classify as constructive criticism. The first two are opinions, which the creators have every right to disagree with. The last statement has some constructive criticism mixed with harsh criticism. Again, creators can disagree with the opinion that the environments are bland, but the person saying that at least mentioned something that they think would improve the game.

Both have every right to exist. However, both should not be given the same level of consideration. Not everything is constructive criticism. Sometimes, it's just criticism. Feeling hurt by criticism is perfectly normal and understandable, and taking every piece of criticism to heart can do serious, often irreparable, harm to a creator's confidence and drive.

If someone (like, to pick a totally random example, Indrah) is making a video for the purpose of entertaining an audience and NOT to deliver constructive feedback to the developer, then that video is going to contain criticism with maybe some bits and pieces of constructive criticism scattered around. Do not feel obligated to take it all to heart. The ability to acknowledge the criticism and let it roll off your back will keep you afloat in the mire of negativity long enough for you to fish out constructive criticism to improve your game.

I'm gonna drop a couple of vids here that people might be interested in:





This one is about movies/Youtube vids, but the ideas behind taking criticism is still relevant.
StevieRayBones
I refuse to grind with monsters I've just met for money.
265
The longer you do any single thing, the better you get. Some criticism is good, but sometimes its just someone not liking your style even if you're great at it. Art is subjective. If you like what you're doing and people enjoy it, just keep doing it.
Here's my take on it.

Sometimes things are difficult to understand. In fact, I'd say that reality is in itself extremely complex and that we have very limited means of interpreting and a very limited understanding of what's going on. Here's my point:

Things aren't always binary: 0 or 1. I'm either "good" or "bad". I suggest thinking beyond that.

It's a gradation of things I think. Maybe your maps could be improved upon but your monster design is very interesting. See what I mean?

Perception is a fickle thing. You seem to assume that people will review your game to help you out. Some people might do that. When it comes to youtube, people care first and foremost about their viewers, not your game. If it wasn't your game, it'd be another game. The objective with youtube is get viewership.

If that person gave calm and super objective feedback, most people wouldn't stick around. People want to be entertained, that's why we have Jerry Springer and reality tv. Youtubers aim to tap into that desire to entertain. So there's that dynamic there.

Long story short, you are taking this personally when you're merely a means to an end to a youtuber and her audience. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but that's the way things are.
author=Toaster_Team
Long story short, you are taking this personally when you're merely a means to an end to a youtuber and her audience. Maybe it shouldn't be that way but that's the way things are.


If it's acceptable for game reviewers to make uncharitable videos, then it should be acceptable for developers to have negative feelings in response to those videos.

That doesn't negate the importance of perspective and self-reflection, of course.

But telling the OP in this instance they're "taking it personally" is a dismissal of their emotions in favour of excusing the actions of the person who provoked those emotions in the first place. The two are connected (and who the intended audience is, is irrelevant) because the only reason for this particular video to exist is the OP's game.

I don't mean to attack you or anything; I just don't think that kind of attitude is particularly helpful.

kentona
I am tired of Earth. These people. I am tired of being caught in the tangle of their lives.
21237
no no no gamedevs are supposed to be quiet and unfeeling, seen & not heard, did you know?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5363
Even the best games and the best developers are terrible. Always keep striving to improve, and never fall into the trap of believing you're good enough.

Of course your game fucking sucks. Every game on this website does. If RPG Maker games were any good, then nobody would bother to spend millions of dollars making AAA titles. Don't try to make something good. Just try to make something better than you are now. That's the goal. Improvement. The better you make it, the more people will enjoy it despite the fact that it sucks.
User was warned for this post
harmonic
It's like toothpicks against a tank
4120
^ How can anyone *not* be motivated and confident after an uplifting and inspirational quote like that?
author=Lockez
Of course your game fucking sucks. Every game on this website does. If RPG Maker games were any good, then nobody would bother to spend millions of dollars making AAA titles. Don't try to make something good. Just try to make something better than you are now. That's the goal. Improvement. The better you make it, the more people will enjoy it despite the fact that it sucks.

Yeah... it's hard for me to see how an attitude like this is going to motivate or help anyone. There are hundreds of "AAA" titles that are equally terrible and derivative. I think it's really an apples and oranges issue you're getting at here.

No, most games on this site are not the next Chrono Trigger, but there are talented writers, artists, programmers (etc) in this community. Even if a game isn't perfect, it has to be scrutinized within the understanding that most of the time, these projects are a labor of a single person over many years.

I'm not trying to make this personal, but why be a moderator of a site full of "terrible games"? It seems a bit counterintuitive. I'm more in alignment with LordBlueRouge's (and others) thoughts - people here deserve to feel good about their work, even if it is terrible. They don't have to maintain such a toxic/self-depricating attitude in order to be motivated to improve.
halibabica
RMN's Official Reviewmonger
13918
His philosophies are unrelated to his mod status. However, I can't really agree with him either. I've seen enough indie game treasures to know great things are possible. Unfortunately, realism and pessimism often go hand in hand. Reaching the point where you can deliberately make an excellent product takes lots of practice and learning.
Ciel
an aristocrat of rpgmaker culture
243
there are dozens of rpgmaker games that put the last 17 years of professional rpg dev to shame

anyway i think the sentiment was just a very unusually denigrating version of the 'always be a learner' bruce lee enlightened disciple mindset kind of thing