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IS 1-5% A GOOD HP RANGE FOR A LIMIT BREAK SKILL? [RM2K3]
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MoonWolfV
3001
MoonWolfV
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CloseI'm just wondering if it would be good for my particular project. Otherwise I was thinking 1-10%.
This all on the template battle and I'd rather get this sorted now than having to go through everything later on.
Here's what it will do for each character.
Character 1: Just gives a few basic skills.
1: A strong HP restoring move (will get him out of limit break status if used)
2: A move which protects him from physical attacks for a couple of turns
3: A very strong strong but very inaccurate move.
Character 2: Gives her action times+ on a random amount. Between 2 - 6.
Character 3: Will attack five times in a row.
Character 4: She can cast her spells on all the enemies, instead of only targeting one.
Character 5: Usually has a very inaccurate skill set which costs nothing to use, they cost nothing to use. His limit break makes these work with much higher accuracy. Between 80-100% depending on the effect. The more powerful ones have the 80% success rate.
Character 6: Just like 4, except that his target the party.
Character 7: She's the thief. Makes steal attempts work at 100% success rate, instead of the usual given rate.
This all on the template battle and I'd rather get this sorted now than having to go through everything later on.
Here's what it will do for each character.
Character 1: Just gives a few basic skills.
1: A strong HP restoring move (will get him out of limit break status if used)
2: A move which protects him from physical attacks for a couple of turns
3: A very strong strong but very inaccurate move.
Character 2: Gives her action times+ on a random amount. Between 2 - 6.
Character 3: Will attack five times in a row.
Character 4: She can cast her spells on all the enemies, instead of only targeting one.
Character 5: Usually has a very inaccurate skill set which costs nothing to use, they cost nothing to use. His limit break makes these work with much higher accuracy. Between 80-100% depending on the effect. The more powerful ones have the 80% success rate.
Character 6: Just like 4, except that his target the party.
Character 7: She's the thief. Makes steal attempts work at 100% success rate, instead of the usual given rate.
bicfarmer
3601
Usually when I have chars on danger zone HP, probably means I'm loosing the fight. Therefore, some of these suggestions are (in my opinion) very bad:
Character 1: If he's at limiting HP, I'd heal him anyway, not much point in getting him to heal himself (unless you ran out of potions or something). Physical immunity may be useful depending on the enemies. I NEVER use moves with low accuracy, especially when I'm dying lol
Character 2: Please make it a fixed amount of actions. Randomness = reset the game till u get the best number
Character 3: Yeah like this one, a fixed number of actions.
Character 4: Might be good, but in a single enemy boss fight this will be useless
Character 5: Doesnt sound like it might be reliable. If it was me I'd make it 100% accurate at low HP. No move ever costs nothing, failing to hit will cost you a turn where u could have done damage instead
Character 6: Very useful. (assuming this is some kind of heal or buff)
Character 7: When ur in the single digits dying, your probably not gonna be trying to steal a potion. Besides, this sound really risky. Should i risk dying to steal an unknown item that may be worth it? Sure, if your other party members are OK and you have revives, but I wont know if the item is worth stealing.
It sounds like when your party is in danger of dying you want super skills to be mostly luck dependent. Personally I dont think this is a good idea.
Character 1: If he's at limiting HP, I'd heal him anyway, not much point in getting him to heal himself (unless you ran out of potions or something). Physical immunity may be useful depending on the enemies. I NEVER use moves with low accuracy, especially when I'm dying lol
Character 2: Please make it a fixed amount of actions. Randomness = reset the game till u get the best number
Character 3: Yeah like this one, a fixed number of actions.
Character 4: Might be good, but in a single enemy boss fight this will be useless
Character 5: Doesnt sound like it might be reliable. If it was me I'd make it 100% accurate at low HP. No move ever costs nothing, failing to hit will cost you a turn where u could have done damage instead
Character 6: Very useful. (assuming this is some kind of heal or buff)
Character 7: When ur in the single digits dying, your probably not gonna be trying to steal a potion. Besides, this sound really risky. Should i risk dying to steal an unknown item that may be worth it? Sure, if your other party members are OK and you have revives, but I wont know if the item is worth stealing.
It sounds like when your party is in danger of dying you want super skills to be mostly luck dependent. Personally I dont think this is a good idea.
Does this work anything like Desperation moves in FF6, where characters choose the "Attack" action, and the Desperation occurs (randomly?) instead? I don't recall the exact percentage-of-health players need for Desperation moves to even trigger, but, I'm pretty sure it's low (can only activate at critical health?), and thus a high-risk action.
*Edit: I have no idea how good Desperation moves were in FF6. I've never triggered one, and if I had a party member that was at critical health, my thought was to heal that character, not to have them "Attack"!
*Edit: I have no idea how good Desperation moves were in FF6. I've never triggered one, and if I had a party member that was at critical health, my thought was to heal that character, not to have them "Attack"!
MoonWolfV
3001
I had the limit break system of Final Fantasy VIII in mind, but having the hp requirements low so one powerful hit could finish them off.
With the first character, the skills appear in his skill list.
With the second and third characters, there is no indication, but if you attack, they will attack multiple times.
With the fourth and sixth, the multi-target spells appear in their skill sets with (all) next to them.
With the fifth one, he was originally supposed to be like the gadgeteers in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance where it would randomly hit one party or the other. I might ramp up the chances of it normally being around 50% chance of it hitting, hence the ability costing nothing. When under limit condition, these will ramp up to a 90-100%
With the seventh one, some enemies will have nastily difficult steals, so this limit will come in handy.
Do you think 15% might be more reasonable. Giving an opportunity to try it out rather than focusing on healing as soon as possible?
With the first character, the skills appear in his skill list.
With the second and third characters, there is no indication, but if you attack, they will attack multiple times.
With the fourth and sixth, the multi-target spells appear in their skill sets with (all) next to them.
With the fifth one, he was originally supposed to be like the gadgeteers in Final Fantasy Tactics Advance where it would randomly hit one party or the other. I might ramp up the chances of it normally being around 50% chance of it hitting, hence the ability costing nothing. When under limit condition, these will ramp up to a 90-100%
With the seventh one, some enemies will have nastily difficult steals, so this limit will come in handy.
Do you think 15% might be more reasonable. Giving an opportunity to try it out rather than focusing on healing as soon as possible?
The size of the range depends on how difficult it is to land your health IN that range. If enemies hit too hard, heroes may end up whacked instead. If enemies are too weak, heroes could tap their potential too often. If you have a defend command that reduces damage, the player may try to rig the hits they take so they end up in the correct range. It depends on a lot of factors, but in general, 10% would probably be okay.
Jeroen_Sol
Nothing reveals Humanity so well as the games it plays. A game of betrayal, where the most suspicious person is brutally murdered? How savage.
3885
If you just use a bar that fills up rather than a %HP trigger, players can't rig it at all.
I dunno if I told this story before, so, I'm gonna hide-tag it. However, something to maybe keep in mind?
Waaaaaaaaay the hell back before I joined RMN, I made a terrible game with VX that took a page from FF8's limit break system. So, Limit Skills trigger based on HP%. My theory went that a Limit skill wouldn't even be added unless HP was at 50%, or thereabouts, and the chance to get a Limit skill at that point was about 50%. As HP went lower, the chance to get a Limit skill increased. So, if a character had 10% HP, their chance of getting a Limit skill was 90%.
There were a few characters that broke these rules in one way or another, but, that was the general idea.
Waaaaaaaaay the hell back before I joined RMN, I made a terrible game with VX that took a page from FF8's limit break system. So, Limit Skills trigger based on HP%. My theory went that a Limit skill wouldn't even be added unless HP was at 50%, or thereabouts, and the chance to get a Limit skill at that point was about 50%. As HP went lower, the chance to get a Limit skill increased. So, if a character had 10% HP, their chance of getting a Limit skill was 90%.
There were a few characters that broke these rules in one way or another, but, that was the general idea.
MoonWolfV
3001
I think I'll go with the 10% idea.
The reason why I decided to go for a low HP% was to stop players from being able to abuse it, I know that there are complaints about Final Fantasy VIII's one how it's easy to manipulate it, I do it when I play it.
My idea is either to risk a turn using the special move and risk getting killed, or heal instead and lose that opportunity.
The reason why I decided to go for a low HP% was to stop players from being able to abuse it, I know that there are complaints about Final Fantasy VIII's one how it's easy to manipulate it, I do it when I play it.
My idea is either to risk a turn using the special move and risk getting killed, or heal instead and lose that opportunity.
Gredge109
4151
Yeah if you wanna head that route I like the idea of making the abilities truly powerful. Like a mage being able to use Stopall (stop all enemy actions for 1 turn or something), a cleric using Reviveall (revive downed allies with a barrier which lasts for 2 turns). Not necessarily those things, but things along those lines which can really be game changers. I understand you like the idea of the gamble, but some players may choose to play it safe. Sure, they could risk it, but they know that at the end of the day the enemies aren't balanced around limit breaks, and they can win the battle with less risk.
Having limits which change the flow of battle are really enticing, whereas a Steal limit break would probably have me use it only if 1. my other characters were alive and healthy and 2. my allies are in no real danger, my thief is simply the victim of some target % RNG.
Bicfarmer mentioned randomness earlier. Honestly, if was in a scenario where I had to either heal or use a limit, which may deal heavy damage to the enemy or may instead deal damage to my party (or simply fail), I will always heal. I'd make a mental note early never to use that character's limit, especially when we're talking 3 or 4 party members, down from 12. That's just me though.
A lot of the ideas sound really cool.
Having limits which change the flow of battle are really enticing, whereas a Steal limit break would probably have me use it only if 1. my other characters were alive and healthy and 2. my allies are in no real danger, my thief is simply the victim of some target % RNG.
Bicfarmer mentioned randomness earlier. Honestly, if was in a scenario where I had to either heal or use a limit, which may deal heavy damage to the enemy or may instead deal damage to my party (or simply fail), I will always heal. I'd make a mental note early never to use that character's limit, especially when we're talking 3 or 4 party members, down from 12. That's just me though.
A lot of the ideas sound really cool.
MoonWolfV
3001
I might adjust the high damage, low accuracy attack, and make it one of his normal skills. I don't really have much of an idea when it comes to this character as he's just a Joe Blogs kind of guy.
For the thief, I might adjust it so she gets her effect earlier, as I like the idea of a 100% steal rate but I might make it so it kicks in at 20% for her limit break only.
I just really wanted to the whole HP % thing sorted before I begin copy/pasting my battle template.
Anyway, I'm going to take in to account all of you guys ideas.
For the thief, I might adjust it so she gets her effect earlier, as I like the idea of a 100% steal rate but I might make it so it kicks in at 20% for her limit break only.
I just really wanted to the whole HP % thing sorted before I begin copy/pasting my battle template.
Anyway, I'm going to take in to account all of you guys ideas.
Zeuzio
3787
Part of what makes FF8's Limit system so busted is the ease of getting characters' Max HP to absurd numbers early in the game, then abusing Junction switching to get them to critical health easily. That said, I think it could work better as a risk/reward system assuming your game isn't quite so broken. :P
And yeah, I would remove any randomness from these skills since the risk is already present with the low HP values.
Also, may I suggest adding damage to the thief's limit as well as the high steal chance? Like Mug.
And yeah, I would remove any randomness from these skills since the risk is already present with the low HP values.
Also, may I suggest adding damage to the thief's limit as well as the high steal chance? Like Mug.
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Here are some important questions to think about:
- How much damage does a typical enemy attack do? 5% of a character's max HP? 10% 30%?
- How much damage does a typical boss attack do? Probably more, right?
- Do you want these skills to only be usable when the character is one hit away from dying?
- Do you want these skills to be more common in boss fights, or less common? If they're usable at an HP range that's two hits from death in normal battles but one hit from death in a boss battle, then they'll only really be useful in normal battles.
- How powerful is healing in your game? Can a character be healed slightly, for example with an AOE healing spell or a turn worth of of Regen, and still be in limit break range? Is that okay with you if so?
- How common is healing in your game? Can characters easily heal themselves, or do they usually wait for the healer to heal them? If they can easily heal themselves, and limit breaks can only be used one hit away from death, then it's likely that nobody will ever use limit breaks. They'll heal instead, unless they're sure the limit break will finish off the last enemy and end the battle.
- Do you want players to be able to intentionally stay at low HP to keep using these skills every turn? If not, then making them only usable while one hit away from death is a better idea. If so, then you might want to make them usable while two hits away from death.
- When a character is revived, how much HP do they start with? Do you want reviving a character to put the character in limit break range? Do you want players to have the option of intentionally killing their own characters and then reviving them to enter limit break range?
- How much damage does a typical enemy attack do? 5% of a character's max HP? 10% 30%?
- How much damage does a typical boss attack do? Probably more, right?
- Do you want these skills to only be usable when the character is one hit away from dying?
- Do you want these skills to be more common in boss fights, or less common? If they're usable at an HP range that's two hits from death in normal battles but one hit from death in a boss battle, then they'll only really be useful in normal battles.
- How powerful is healing in your game? Can a character be healed slightly, for example with an AOE healing spell or a turn worth of of Regen, and still be in limit break range? Is that okay with you if so?
- How common is healing in your game? Can characters easily heal themselves, or do they usually wait for the healer to heal them? If they can easily heal themselves, and limit breaks can only be used one hit away from death, then it's likely that nobody will ever use limit breaks. They'll heal instead, unless they're sure the limit break will finish off the last enemy and end the battle.
- Do you want players to be able to intentionally stay at low HP to keep using these skills every turn? If not, then making them only usable while one hit away from death is a better idea. If so, then you might want to make them usable while two hits away from death.
- When a character is revived, how much HP do they start with? Do you want reviving a character to put the character in limit break range? Do you want players to have the option of intentionally killing their own characters and then reviving them to enter limit break range?
i really rarely see myself at less than 30% HP in most RPGs I play. And when I'm on 25% I just die in one hit.
but if this is the first hour of FF7 where the party has 500 hp and enemy attacks deal 5 damage...
edit: oups sorry for the quasi necro
but if this is the first hour of FF7 where the party has 500 hp and enemy attacks deal 5 damage...
edit: oups sorry for the quasi necro
MoonWolfV
3001
Just thought I'd add this in here, rather than creating a whole new topic. It's still related.
Should I put a message in when the limit break becomes active or should I just have this mentioned by someone in passing that this "status" sometimes happens?
Should I put a message in when the limit break becomes active or should I just have this mentioned by someone in passing that this "status" sometimes happens?
LockeZ
I'd really like to get rid of LockeZ. His play style is way too unpredictable. He's always like this too. If he ran a country, he'd just kill and imprison people at random until crime stopped.
5958
Agree with Joseph.
Prinnyhero
1605
I am messing around with an idea similar to this myself and I find a good balance for me has been setting the Hp% at 10% (15% during the really early battles when HP is lower) and at a 10% chance of activating when the attack command is used.
As for your second question I find a really cool way to show it's been activated is to use 'cut ins' of the face of the characters using it similar to Tales of Eternia (when performing secret extensions in battle) or Disgaea games (when using team-up attacks).
As for your second question I find a really cool way to show it's been activated is to use 'cut ins' of the face of the characters using it similar to Tales of Eternia (when performing secret extensions in battle) or Disgaea games (when using team-up attacks).
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