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CloseOne thing that really bugs me in RPGs is the oftentimes complete lack of attention given to the political landscape and population.
Okay before you say "Okay this is retarded who gives a shit about political parties and censuses in RPGs get a life", I don't mean anything that complicated. What I mean is, a lot of RPGs don't really...make a lot of sense in that regard. Okay I guess I had better give an example of one.
Take Final Fantasy 7 and it's world. You have the Shinra Company, which rules over the world economically, militarily, and politically. But it seems like Shinra rules over a lot of nothing. You have Midgar, Junon, which are both major cities, and then...that's it. Here, let me quote a post I made about this on GF a while ago.
And another
Keep in mind that I am not talking about why many RPGs have only like 7 towns and about 10-20 NPCs in each town. That's just a gameplay limitation, and many RPGs imply that there are many more towns/cities/people in said towns and cities. Of course, and then there are other RPGs that really do seem like there's like 300 people total in the world and there's just one country that's the size of Texas and the rest of the world is THE WILD FRONTIER FILLED WITH MONSTERS.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that RPGs in general do a bad job of conveying worlds, nor am I saying that they should be like Suikoden or anything. I used FF7 because it really seems like a lopsided political landscape and things don't make sense.
Other games with a good sense of 'political landscape' and population to see what I mean.
Tales of Destiny
Xenogears
Wild Arms 2
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 12
Final Fantasy Tactics
SaGa Frontier II
Suikoden series is the absolute best example.
Sorry, I'm kinda rambling (I'll elaborate if asked!), so this topic is to discuss this issue and how you're approaching this with your game.
Okay before you say "Okay this is retarded who gives a shit about political parties and censuses in RPGs get a life", I don't mean anything that complicated. What I mean is, a lot of RPGs don't really...make a lot of sense in that regard. Okay I guess I had better give an example of one.
Take Final Fantasy 7 and it's world. You have the Shinra Company, which rules over the world economically, militarily, and politically. But it seems like Shinra rules over a lot of nothing. You have Midgar, Junon, which are both major cities, and then...that's it. Here, let me quote a post I made about this on GF a while ago.
Don't get me wrong, I know that there are most certainly other towns/villages and all that (golden rule of RPG,s etc), but I don't mean that. I mean how there just seems to be no sign of any other national/international entities besides Shinra and Wutai (even though Wutai doesn't really matter anymore). Okay, Shinra is this big world controlling power, but...what was there before Shinra? The company itself isn't that old where nobody would remember. It just seems that it was Shinra...and Shinra.
Like, even taking into account the possibility/probability that Shinra just BOUGHT any old nations/kingdoms/whatever, there don't seem to be any remnant of those, either. No old capital cities, no castles, no former evidence of any major power, no real big cities, no anything, really. Besides for Midgar and Junon, it just seems like Shinra rules a whole lot of nothing. Hell, even in FF6, the Empire took over what USED to be nations. Tzen, Miranda, and Albrook used to be their own nations, and hell, even a lady in Tzen says "Yeah the Empire killed our entire royal family". By comparison it just seems like Shinra just bought miles and miles of just podunk farm towns.
And another
I definitely wouldn't say Wutai was a small tribe. Although underrepresented in the original game, Wutai seems to have had their entire continent to themselves, with a rather large army that took Shinra years to beat even with SOLDIER and Sephiroth.
Keep in mind that I am not talking about why many RPGs have only like 7 towns and about 10-20 NPCs in each town. That's just a gameplay limitation, and many RPGs imply that there are many more towns/cities/people in said towns and cities. Of course, and then there are other RPGs that really do seem like there's like 300 people total in the world and there's just one country that's the size of Texas and the rest of the world is THE WILD FRONTIER FILLED WITH MONSTERS.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that RPGs in general do a bad job of conveying worlds, nor am I saying that they should be like Suikoden or anything. I used FF7 because it really seems like a lopsided political landscape and things don't make sense.
Other games with a good sense of 'political landscape' and population to see what I mean.
Tales of Destiny
Xenogears
Wild Arms 2
Final Fantasy 6
Final Fantasy 8
Final Fantasy 12
Final Fantasy Tactics
SaGa Frontier II
Suikoden series is the absolute best example.
Sorry, I'm kinda rambling (I'll elaborate if asked!), so this topic is to discuss this issue and how you're approaching this with your game.
Dragon Warrior/Quest II, III and IV had a sense of countries and distinct boundaries, even if there wasn't any conflict between them.
Since my game is basically Dragon Warrior IV-2, I have that same sense of separate countries with their own king, queen or emperor, but all are generally united against the Big Evil. I find that having many countries gives the game a sense of a grander scale. Epic.
Since my game is basically Dragon Warrior IV-2, I have that same sense of separate countries with their own king, queen or emperor, but all are generally united against the Big Evil. I find that having many countries gives the game a sense of a grander scale. Epic.
Clest
0
Great point, specially since deep and explorable setting is the only thing an RPG has that no other media has.
For that I always start development by defining a setting and then the inteligent beings who live there and from that, their societies and culture.
It is sad how most of the time this is really ignored and in many cases, the world revolves around the hero and the hero´s mission when it should be the opposite. FF7 is exactly the case, everything seems to exist in the game for the sake of the heroes and their story.
Also I shall note some more examples of good political/society development in games (some are Tactical, but still FFT was too):
-Tactics Ogre
-Front Mission: With the internet in recent games you can, view facts from all the series in newspaper sites and you can visit industrial and governamental sites as well as the completely believable economical alliances/blocks presented in there.
-Phantasy Star 1, 2 and 4: Intheresting covering on planet colonization and how ppl view history even when most records are lost (this mainly from 2 to 4).
-Super Robot Wars OG
For that I always start development by defining a setting and then the inteligent beings who live there and from that, their societies and culture.
It is sad how most of the time this is really ignored and in many cases, the world revolves around the hero and the hero´s mission when it should be the opposite. FF7 is exactly the case, everything seems to exist in the game for the sake of the heroes and their story.
Also I shall note some more examples of good political/society development in games (some are Tactical, but still FFT was too):
-Tactics Ogre
-Front Mission: With the internet in recent games you can, view facts from all the series in newspaper sites and you can visit industrial and governamental sites as well as the completely believable economical alliances/blocks presented in there.
-Phantasy Star 1, 2 and 4: Intheresting covering on planet colonization and how ppl view history even when most records are lost (this mainly from 2 to 4).
-Super Robot Wars OG
For as much flak as the Tales series gets I seriously think Tales of Destiny had some of the best political landscape/sense of nations in a game I've ever seen.
I feel like Final Fantasy Tactics would have done really great at this but it was so terribly translated that it did really terrible at this I mean they didn't even keep names consistent.
This is a great topic, Mog. Remember, you're at a huge nerd website here, so these things ARE safe to discuss!
It's difficult, in RPGmaker anyway, to do a great job at nations and populations, because, well, making a bunch of towns and NPCs is a pain in the butt.
But you can still work toward a great-feeling political landscape. You can have a capitol city, and include all the stuff in it that would logically be in a capitol, like:
-largeness of city in comparison to others
-possibly a more vibrant marketplace
-stronger military presence
-administrative buildings (places where politicians / monarchs hang out)
You can include all kinds of cities that make geopolitical sense, like a city that's conveniently accessible by ship being a vibrant port city, or one that's off the beaten path and in the middle of plains / wasteland being more run down.
I like to include a very distinct political landscape in my games. LoD2/LoDVX has one large, spanning empire, with specific military branches that come into the storyline, and leaders of those branches. It's an empire based on airships, so large cities or military strongholds all have airports. The capitol city is large and bustling, with the primary administration building bearing a senate hall, and a floating palace above, where the Empress hangs out.
There are places in the world that are fully part of that empire, then there are conquered areas or areas of loose imperial mandate, and the political environment changes thusly.
It's difficult, in RPGmaker anyway, to do a great job at nations and populations, because, well, making a bunch of towns and NPCs is a pain in the butt.
But you can still work toward a great-feeling political landscape. You can have a capitol city, and include all the stuff in it that would logically be in a capitol, like:
-largeness of city in comparison to others
-possibly a more vibrant marketplace
-stronger military presence
-administrative buildings (places where politicians / monarchs hang out)
You can include all kinds of cities that make geopolitical sense, like a city that's conveniently accessible by ship being a vibrant port city, or one that's off the beaten path and in the middle of plains / wasteland being more run down.
I like to include a very distinct political landscape in my games. LoD2/LoDVX has one large, spanning empire, with specific military branches that come into the storyline, and leaders of those branches. It's an empire based on airships, so large cities or military strongholds all have airports. The capitol city is large and bustling, with the primary administration building bearing a senate hall, and a floating palace above, where the Empress hangs out.
There are places in the world that are fully part of that empire, then there are conquered areas or areas of loose imperial mandate, and the political environment changes thusly.
AeroGP
64
author=Max McGee link=topic=2377.msg41624#msg41624 date=1225737762
I feel like Final Fantasy Tactics would have done really great at this but it was so terribly translated that it did really terrible at this I mean they didn't even keep names consistent.
The PSP port does an amazing job at reconstituting the game's environment. Go look up videos and stuff.
Don't read this
RPG Kingdoms/Empires just have incredibly decentralized autocracies. You have the one castle where the King hangs out and all those other cities are subjects to the King but since the heroes have a monopoly on any sort of transportation and due to the complete lack of any sort of infrastructure the subjects of the empire are pretty much self-autonomous city-states in all but name. They follow general principles of the autocrat like no authorative figure (Feudalism? What's that?) and there's probably some tax but due to the lack of infrastructure, monsters being everywhere, the decentralized system and lack of control, and that the level of guards range from 1/8th to 27 (and are usually only on par with the local monsters) makes it difficult for any tax collection and transportation to take place unhindered. The only thing stopping these almost-city-states from proclaming independence is the capital's 4:1 soldiers:everyfuckingbodyelse ratio and their ability to use plot transportation (or a hidden fleet of ships/airships/flyingdragons).
The reason why this form of government works at all is the same reason why everything else inRPGs video games works the way they do.
RPG Kingdoms/Empires just have incredibly decentralized autocracies. You have the one castle where the King hangs out and all those other cities are subjects to the King but since the heroes have a monopoly on any sort of transportation and due to the complete lack of any sort of infrastructure the subjects of the empire are pretty much self-autonomous city-states in all but name. They follow general principles of the autocrat like no authorative figure (Feudalism? What's that?) and there's probably some tax but due to the lack of infrastructure, monsters being everywhere, the decentralized system and lack of control, and that the level of guards range from 1/8th to 27 (and are usually only on par with the local monsters) makes it difficult for any tax collection and transportation to take place unhindered. The only thing stopping these almost-city-states from proclaming independence is the capital's 4:1 soldiers:everyfuckingbodyelse ratio and their ability to use plot transportation (or a hidden fleet of ships/airships/flyingdragons).
The reason why this form of government works at all is the same reason why everything else in
Whoa whoa whoa, what the hell are you talking about?
(no I'm not trying to mean, I seriously don't get it)
(no I'm not trying to mean, I seriously don't get it)
Or this
I don't get this topic so I'll bugger off now and leave my fail interpretations in hide tags for no-walls-of-bad-text sake.
Its tl;dr is one explanation of how RPG governments work is silly. It does have a fair number of assumptions which I never mentioned so that didn't help with what I write when running on low sleep.
Assumptions:
Your average RPG Kingdom/Empire is an autocracy: One person rules all. Nobles and other people with authorative power seem to be in short supply so the most likely government type is an autocracy/despotic monarchy. There's the odd republic with a council here and there, and I think there's a Count in FF12 which is the only nobleman I can name off the top of my head without going into Suikoden territory. The most common government of medieval Europe was Feudal Monarchies (I believe, no source) which isn't possible under autocracies.
The average RPG cities don't have any sort of government or authorative figure. This leads to wondering if 90% of cities are sovereign city-states or subject to a kingdom/empire. If they are all city-states then most of my points are moot (although then they all seem to be ran by anarchy and how the cities are stable or aren't under immediate threat is a mystery) but if they're subjects to a kingdom/empire then the lack of an authorative figure means there isn't anyone to enforce or implement the government's decisions. So these cities are probably largely autonomous (which leads back to the problem of how) from the autocrat's control so the kingdom/empire would be largely decentralized. City follows the autocrat's guiding principles and sends them tax and in return the autocrat defends the city. There's always the Holy Roman Empire way, I believe the members of the HRE were all sovereign while being part of an empire.
The more I think about it the more I believe the correct explanation to how common RPG cities are ran is
and is worth just handwaving away as "they work by magic".
There is no infrastructure. There are no roads. There are very few docks. There are an abundance of huge maze-like caves between cities. How kingdoms/empires that span cities like these is beyond me. Communication and transportation between these cities would be slow, inefficient, and very dangerous (especially considering how weak some soldiers are). Transporting taxes from subject to master would be very expensive and considering how autonomous the subjects would be who knows how much tax would even be collected. This probably strengthens that most of the cities are sovereign since most empires would be a rediculous waste of money and manpower.
These assumptions are pretty simple ones. I don't know everything (or even a lot) of how governments run besides simplified versions of the real deal. Someone who has actually studied government systems is far more qualified than I am to talk about this stuff. Its just a bad explanation of how RPG governments work / they don't.
edit:
For my own game, I'm trying to create the world in a believable manner. Kingdoms that could actually exist with the proper levels of infrastructure (like roads between cities) with infrastrucutre proportional to the distance from the frontiers. The various nation-states will have defined political systems with the nessecities available for the player (hopefully enough so at a glance it appears functional without trying to drown the player in
). As a result I already have a mess of characters with little characterization but several of them have almost no role in the plot so I'm going to pretend I can get away with it.
Assumptions:
Your average RPG Kingdom/Empire is an autocracy: One person rules all. Nobles and other people with authorative power seem to be in short supply so the most likely government type is an autocracy/despotic monarchy. There's the odd republic with a council here and there, and I think there's a Count in FF12 which is the only nobleman I can name off the top of my head without going into Suikoden territory. The most common government of medieval Europe was Feudal Monarchies (I believe, no source) which isn't possible under autocracies.
The average RPG cities don't have any sort of government or authorative figure. This leads to wondering if 90% of cities are sovereign city-states or subject to a kingdom/empire. If they are all city-states then most of my points are moot (although then they all seem to be ran by anarchy and how the cities are stable or aren't under immediate threat is a mystery) but if they're subjects to a kingdom/empire then the lack of an authorative figure means there isn't anyone to enforce or implement the government's decisions. So these cities are probably largely autonomous (which leads back to the problem of how) from the autocrat's control so the kingdom/empire would be largely decentralized. City follows the autocrat's guiding principles and sends them tax and in return the autocrat defends the city. There's always the Holy Roman Empire way, I believe the members of the HRE were all sovereign while being part of an empire.
The more I think about it the more I believe the correct explanation to how common RPG cities are ran is
There is no infrastructure. There are no roads. There are very few docks. There are an abundance of huge maze-like caves between cities. How kingdoms/empires that span cities like these is beyond me. Communication and transportation between these cities would be slow, inefficient, and very dangerous (especially considering how weak some soldiers are). Transporting taxes from subject to master would be very expensive and considering how autonomous the subjects would be who knows how much tax would even be collected. This probably strengthens that most of the cities are sovereign since most empires would be a rediculous waste of money and manpower.
These assumptions are pretty simple ones. I don't know everything (or even a lot) of how governments run besides simplified versions of the real deal. Someone who has actually studied government systems is far more qualified than I am to talk about this stuff. Its just a bad explanation of how RPG governments work / they don't.
edit:
For my own game, I'm trying to create the world in a believable manner. Kingdoms that could actually exist with the proper levels of infrastructure (like roads between cities) with infrastrucutre proportional to the distance from the frontiers. The various nation-states will have defined political systems with the nessecities available for the player (hopefully enough so at a glance it appears functional without trying to drown the player in
I don't get this topic so I'll bugger off now and leave my fail interpretations in hide tags for no-walls-of-bad-text sake.
Yeah but...that's not what we're talking about at all.
(and not to mention that a realistic number of roads, docks, cities, nobles, infrastructure, etc are unseen due to gameplay limitations but are certainly implied to exist unlike...whatever you're talking about)
What the hell are you smoking, dude? I mean not to be rude but I'm about to tell everyone to skip over your posts until you start making some sense!
(and not to mention that a realistic number of roads, docks, cities, nobles, infrastructure, etc are unseen due to gameplay limitations but are certainly implied to exist unlike...whatever you're talking about)
What the hell are you smoking, dude? I mean not to be rude but I'm about to tell everyone to skip over your posts until you start making some sense!
This never really get to me, as my games are often on historical periods or modern times. So it gets easier for me (for example, almost the entire town of Tombstone supports Grant - can't blame 'em.)
When I do make a world, however, I can get a little too detailed. I have two three-ring binders full of notes on a world called Aenrol. I've just added to it and added to it over the years, and I have everything from a cosmology starting with the beginning of time to the hair and eye colors of people from various regions, and how they mix.
To much time on my hands back then :-\
When I do make a world, however, I can get a little too detailed. I have two three-ring binders full of notes on a world called Aenrol. I've just added to it and added to it over the years, and I have everything from a cosmology starting with the beginning of time to the hair and eye colors of people from various regions, and how they mix.
To much time on my hands back then :-\
Clest
0
Mog: Greatredspirit said many things that others including you and me said here, just that he picked a different set of words.
In essence he said that in most RPGs you have no defined government system or a system that is described in a way but portrayed in another way.
Also he noted one common political mystery in RPGs: how or if most small cities are governed? This is exactly your notion about Shin-Ra, just that Shin-Ra is the substitute to most castle cities in fantasy RPGs out there: It is a castle city and the rest are just far away isolated cities from which the capital city gets nothing and offers nothing, so how are those cities ever connected?
Even loving FF6 I always asked why in hell was the town of Figaro built so far from the castle and look how complicated it would be to collect taxes/defend the city or get support/supplies from it to the castle.
Regarding roads and ports, well sure that adding an absolutely realistic number for then could compromise gameplay, but the number we see in most RPGs go too far from the limit where cities would become large ports with 5 houses :P
Anyway since everyone is talking about their games...
My setting (it is a setting made for whatever game I decide to do): first of all it is a damn large setting impossible to portray fully in games, but that´s the idea, it is "galactic kingdom" with 7 solar systems and more than 40 planets not to mention natural and artificial satelites and space stations.
My games will usually cover sections of those settings and when it comes to planets you never roam through a full world map, but just visit certain regions of the planets.
The government system is similar to feudalism in which you have a king rulling over the galaxy, and a system lord to each solar system, however you still has governors for each major city and the really small villages tend to be run by mayors.
Taxes are collected easily due to the fact that transportations are common, from trucks to space ships. There are passenger ships flying between planets constantly.
Communication is made though devices linked through small satelites spread around the planets which provide data transmission through any computer-like device, this dapa may include sound, images, text etc.
Monsters are hardly a problem since they only live in areas far from human dominated areas.
In essence he said that in most RPGs you have no defined government system or a system that is described in a way but portrayed in another way.
Also he noted one common political mystery in RPGs: how or if most small cities are governed? This is exactly your notion about Shin-Ra, just that Shin-Ra is the substitute to most castle cities in fantasy RPGs out there: It is a castle city and the rest are just far away isolated cities from which the capital city gets nothing and offers nothing, so how are those cities ever connected?
Even loving FF6 I always asked why in hell was the town of Figaro built so far from the castle and look how complicated it would be to collect taxes/defend the city or get support/supplies from it to the castle.
Regarding roads and ports, well sure that adding an absolutely realistic number for then could compromise gameplay, but the number we see in most RPGs go too far from the limit where cities would become large ports with 5 houses :P
Anyway since everyone is talking about their games...
My setting (it is a setting made for whatever game I decide to do): first of all it is a damn large setting impossible to portray fully in games, but that´s the idea, it is "galactic kingdom" with 7 solar systems and more than 40 planets not to mention natural and artificial satelites and space stations.
My games will usually cover sections of those settings and when it comes to planets you never roam through a full world map, but just visit certain regions of the planets.
The government system is similar to feudalism in which you have a king rulling over the galaxy, and a system lord to each solar system, however you still has governors for each major city and the really small villages tend to be run by mayors.
Taxes are collected easily due to the fact that transportations are common, from trucks to space ships. There are passenger ships flying between planets constantly.
Communication is made though devices linked through small satelites spread around the planets which provide data transmission through any computer-like device, this dapa may include sound, images, text etc.
Monsters are hardly a problem since they only live in areas far from human dominated areas.
Mog: Greatredspirit said many things that others including you and me said here, just that he picked a different set of words.
No offense to GreatRedSpirit, but it seems like he was spouting a bunch of gibberish. Let me explain why...
In essence he said that in most RPGs you have no defined government system or a system that is described in a way but portrayed in another way.
No, he was saying that things like docks, roads, infrastructure, ruling members of society, etc, don't exist period. Which I disagree with, and in certain RPGs, is just dead wrong. In a great majority of RPGs, most of those things aren't visible but are certainly implied, which if done correctly is good enough for me. GRS was saying that "I don't see it so it's not there HOW CAN THESE PLACES FUNCTION???"
Also he noted one common political mystery in RPGs: how or if most small cities are governed? This is exactly your notion about Shin-Ra, just that Shin-Ra is the substitute to most castle cities in fantasy RPGs out there: It is a castle city and the rest are just far away isolated cities from which the capital city gets nothing and offers nothing, so how are those cities ever connected?
Well FF7 is a particularly prominent example of this.
Even loving FF6 I always asked why in hell was the town of Figaro built so far from the castle and look how complicated it would be to collect taxes/defend the city or get support/supplies from it to the castle.
Here's some possible answers.
1. The most obvious one, Figaro, being a great world power in FF6, obviously doesn't have just one town under it's jurisdiction. While South Figaro was the capital, other unseen towns/cities certainly have to exist. The same goes for farms, factories (especially factories in Figaro's case), docks, forts, etc.
2. Chocobos and wagons support/supply the towns, and are used as communication, travel, etc.
3. It can be assumed that Figaro Castle is somewhat of a town itself.
Regarding roads and ports, well sure that adding an absolutely realistic number for then could compromise gameplay, but the number we see in most RPGs go too far from the limit where cities would become large ports with 5 houses Tongue
Well yeah, I too think that a lot of RPGs could do a better job representing and implying these kind of games, but there are good examples.
Take Xenogears. More specifically, take Nortune, the Imperial Capital of Kislev, which in game is the biggest and most populace city around (with a population of one million, and yes, that number is canon). Instead of going 'HEY LISTEN THIS CITY IS BIG JUST TRUST US OKAY' and making Nortune consist of like 10 houses, they actually gave the city it's own little world map you use to travel from district to district.
You know, stuff like that.
kayzorkross
25
I wouldn't entirely agree with your evaluation of SHINRA in Final Fantasy VII. Every location aside from Cosmo Canyon had some involvement or was completely underrun by SHINRA at some point.
Midgar
This is SHINRA's base of operations.
Junon
Completely controlled by SHINRA. A SHINRA port, a SHINRA military weapon is stationed here for most of FF7 and all of Crisis Core.
Costa del Sol
SHINRA controls its port.
Kalm
Not under any particular SHINRA influence. That said there isn't much in this town that SHINRA would find useful so why bother?
Fort Condor
Shinra are in the process of invasion.
Gold Saucer
Stationed in the middle of the desert. No resources SHINRA would find particularly useful.
Corel
SHINRA built a power station and completely overrode its coal industry. It was then razed to the ground.
North Corel
The result of Corel's destruction. The fault of SHINRA.
Nibelheim
SHINRA has built a mako reactor, a mansion with a secret research laboratory AND there are research specimens contained within the reactor.
Gongaga
SHINRA's mako reactor exploded and destroyed it.
Cosmo Canyon
Nothing of use here. They leave it alone.
Rocket Town
Used as the base for SHINRA's space program.
Wutai
Attempted invasion by SHINRA but failed.
Icicle Lodge
SHINRA takes over the town's research lab and obtains data about the ancients.
I shall stop now but you get my point. They overtake places that possess what they want, take it, then throw it aside.
Midgar
This is SHINRA's base of operations.
Junon
Completely controlled by SHINRA. A SHINRA port, a SHINRA military weapon is stationed here for most of FF7 and all of Crisis Core.
Costa del Sol
SHINRA controls its port.
Kalm
Not under any particular SHINRA influence. That said there isn't much in this town that SHINRA would find useful so why bother?
Fort Condor
Shinra are in the process of invasion.
Gold Saucer
Stationed in the middle of the desert. No resources SHINRA would find particularly useful.
Corel
SHINRA built a power station and completely overrode its coal industry. It was then razed to the ground.
North Corel
The result of Corel's destruction. The fault of SHINRA.
Nibelheim
SHINRA has built a mako reactor, a mansion with a secret research laboratory AND there are research specimens contained within the reactor.
Gongaga
SHINRA's mako reactor exploded and destroyed it.
Cosmo Canyon
Nothing of use here. They leave it alone.
Rocket Town
Used as the base for SHINRA's space program.
Wutai
Attempted invasion by SHINRA but failed.
Icicle Lodge
SHINRA takes over the town's research lab and obtains data about the ancients.
I shall stop now but you get my point. They overtake places that possess what they want, take it, then throw it aside.
Hey, good post, new guy! Good to see you and welcome by the way.
However, I think you misinterpreted me a bit. I know that Shinra controls all of these places, that goes without saying and that's fact. It just seems that for being a world encompassing mega corporation, said places don't really seem to be much more than little hamlets and dirt holes. Almost every single town in FF7 except for Midgar, Junon, Wutai, and MAYBE Costa Del Sol are just little podunk villages. I mean what was around before Shinra? No major cities, no castles, no presidential buildings, no anything. It's all a bunch of small towns. The world of FF7 seems sparse and empty and void.
And by the way, Shinra isn't capitalized.
However, I think you misinterpreted me a bit. I know that Shinra controls all of these places, that goes without saying and that's fact. It just seems that for being a world encompassing mega corporation, said places don't really seem to be much more than little hamlets and dirt holes. Almost every single town in FF7 except for Midgar, Junon, Wutai, and MAYBE Costa Del Sol are just little podunk villages. I mean what was around before Shinra? No major cities, no castles, no presidential buildings, no anything. It's all a bunch of small towns. The world of FF7 seems sparse and empty and void.
And by the way, Shinra isn't capitalized.
Clest
0
Well, when I don´t see, I expect things to be implied in dialog OR that there is room for those things in nom-visited areas, best cases are tactical RPGs like FFT, Front Mission and SRW. In Front Mission for example, the setting is our world in the future, and while all you see on the screen are some limited battle maps and bgs, you can imagine that there is more.
Now what I believe he meant and I meant as well, bringind your pointabout FF6 is: If you give me full access to a world map with no "uncovered" places to visit (since in the game I really see everything the world has, after all I can circly the world if I follow in any diorection straight with the airship) I cannot assume there is anything else.
And sure they use chocobos and stuff to travel between figaro castle and south figaro, the thing is that there is a cave where we can´t use chobocos to pass (if for some reason the guards could, then why our characters can´t?)and the cave has monsters, sure soldiers can pass, but still wouldn´t be easy. Fact is that if you look back at Figaro history, how would you justify this setup? Why would the king of a desert castle build a city so far from the castle with mountains blocking the path leaving just a cave as road?
This may be a reason I don´t like "passageway" dungeons aside from certain cases where it is logical, if not then just add a dungeon close to the next town hiding an artifact the townsfolk needs and you still have a dungeon there, just that said dungeon won´t destroy the access the regular NPCs have between cities.
Now, Nortune (and Aveh for that matter) are nice examples of making a city feel big, though Nortune did just the same thing Midgar did in FF7, just better (in the first CD only). That is how I plan to have navigation on my bigger cities: a large world map city where you can visit various sections.
But as far as world map goes, I chose to limit things by region maps closing to just a section of the world or the other, leaving others unexplored to either be used in other projects or just so the player feels there is more to it than can be seen. Cyber Knight 2 does that nicely.
Now what I believe he meant and I meant as well, bringind your pointabout FF6 is: If you give me full access to a world map with no "uncovered" places to visit (since in the game I really see everything the world has, after all I can circly the world if I follow in any diorection straight with the airship) I cannot assume there is anything else.
And sure they use chocobos and stuff to travel between figaro castle and south figaro, the thing is that there is a cave where we can´t use chobocos to pass (if for some reason the guards could, then why our characters can´t?)and the cave has monsters, sure soldiers can pass, but still wouldn´t be easy. Fact is that if you look back at Figaro history, how would you justify this setup? Why would the king of a desert castle build a city so far from the castle with mountains blocking the path leaving just a cave as road?
This may be a reason I don´t like "passageway" dungeons aside from certain cases where it is logical, if not then just add a dungeon close to the next town hiding an artifact the townsfolk needs and you still have a dungeon there, just that said dungeon won´t destroy the access the regular NPCs have between cities.
Now, Nortune (and Aveh for that matter) are nice examples of making a city feel big, though Nortune did just the same thing Midgar did in FF7, just better (in the first CD only). That is how I plan to have navigation on my bigger cities: a large world map city where you can visit various sections.
But as far as world map goes, I chose to limit things by region maps closing to just a section of the world or the other, leaving others unexplored to either be used in other projects or just so the player feels there is more to it than can be seen. Cyber Knight 2 does that nicely.
Well, when I don´t see, I expect things to be implied in dialog OR that there is room for those things in nom-visited areas, best cases are tactical RPGs like FFT, Front Mission and SRW. In Front Mission for example, the setting is our world in the future, and while all you see on the screen are some limited battle maps and bgs, you can imagine that there is more.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that a sense of nationality and population should be better implied in RPGs, but I'm not going to arrive to the default conclusion of 'well I don't see it so it's not there' route.
Now what I believe he meant and I meant as well, bringind your pointabout FF6 is: If you give me full access to a world map with no "uncovered" places to visit (since in the game I really see everything the world has, after all I can circly the world if I follow in any diorection straight with the airship) I cannot assume there is anything else.
Then no offense, but that's just not using common sense. It's almost universally implied that only locations important for the games plot are depicted, and the rest are just implied to be there. If someone makes the conclusion that 'LOL THERE'S REALLY ONLY SEVEN TOWNS' then everyone is going to assume that person is dumb.
And sure they use chocobos and stuff to travel between figaro castle and south figaro, the thing is that there is a cave where we can´t use chobocos to pass (if for some reason the guards could, then why our characters can´t?)and the cave has monsters, sure soldiers can pass, but still wouldn´t be easy. Fact is that if you look back at Figaro history, how would you justify this setup? Why would the king of a desert castle build a city so far from the castle with mountains blocking the path leaving just a cave as road?
That specific point is a good one, I'll give you that. I'll try to think of something. Can you think of another example?
